[quote=flu][quote=carli][quote=flu]You know. A lot of you are doing nothing more than stereotyping foreign students as being bookworms. A lot of you are stereotyping asians student hard and work hard simply to get a good grade for the sake of getting good grades. And a lot of you keep harping on it being completely unnecessary to work as hard as some asians do….
You know, has it occurred to any of you that maybe the reason why asians work so damn hard is because things aren’t exactly easy for asians, especially here in america, and yet asians are determined to just do OK, and that sometimes in order to just be slightly above average, asians have to work sometimes twice as hard to just to be slightly above average in this country?
Look, for every different type of people, somethings work and some things don’t. And sometimes what might work for your life path might not work for someone else. Life isn’t fair. Everyone isn’t dealt the same hand. Some of us, in order to achieve something near equal or slightly above average have to work a lot more to get there than others. The only choices you have are (1) are you willing to do it or (2) not.
I won’t judge people for what opportunities they want to piss away. Or what they consider what is too difficult for them to try, or “too much more, or too competitive”. That’s fine. We all have are own limits and we all have our own different expectations. But don’t give me this shit that on one hand you don’t want to put the time/effort/money/initiative into doing one thing, and then bitch, belittle, and rain on someone else’s parade that is willing to put the time/effort/perseverance to do something you didn’t want to do, or didn’t care, or thought it wasn’t worth the “too much work” effort, and then complain later on why they seem to have better opportunity now than you do.
A lot of asians work very hard because we want to better ourselves. And frankly, for a lot of us, we have to work a heck of a lot harder to accomplish things simply because, let’s face it, we have to, in order to achieve the same level of accomplishment as others…. there is a sort of glass ceiling in many cases, and a “fraternity” in many industries here in the US and in many professions that tend to be, for the lack of the better word, culturally white. Banking, wall street, partners at law firms, VP’s/directors at VCs, entertainment, etc, and that’s even for asians born, raised, here in the U.S. Things that, frankly for many asians, will not be obtainable in both 1st generation, and in many cases 2nd generation. Part of this is cultural, and part of this is just well, generational, and part of this connection/buddy buddy system.
I’ll give you an example. Flyer is from a family that’s been here for many generations. As such ,his roots has been established here, his ancestors has paved a the way a lot, so he and his family definitely have a lot more opportunities. For him and his family. All this “exccessive work” that asians apparently do that many of you kinda thumb your nose over, flyer’s kids don’t have to do. Because, for example, even if his kids weren’t completely the top of their class (which by all means, I’m not suggesting they aren’t I’m sure they are stellar), I seriously doubt his kids are going to have a difficult finding/doing something productive, and making a difference.
Ok, so now, my parents were technical people from a foreign country generation 1. Their only opportunity was to come here on a government scholarship to study. They had no opportunity to work on wall street, their language precluded them from being in management, and some my background and sphere of influence tend to be around technical/engineering related things. How likely am I going to find a C-level executive position in the entertainment industry versus flyer’s kids?
Do I need to work a lot harder if I want to achieve the same level of success as flyer’s kids. Most certainly. Do I wish I had the opportunity his kids have? Certainly. And I jealous that his kids have that opportunity? (honestly, yes sort of ). But at the same time, life ain’t fair. So deal with it. If I want to be successful, I need to work my ass off because of the cards I was dealt. It’s as simple as that…or I simply don’t care and settle for something else..That’s a choice too. It might be your choice, if you’re dealt the same hand as I was, but that’s not my choice. I want to be at the same level as others that are dealt a better hand. At the same time, I’m not going to sit on my ass and just cry about how unfair things are. So fine, if you don’t want to put the time and effort into improving things, that’s fine. That’s respectable. Maybe you don’t need to. Maybe you have cards that were dealt much better than other asians. Fine. You win. Give yourself a pat on the back that you won the “I came out of the lucky pussy” award.
All you people that think that adding quotas, foreign limits, restrictions, discriminatory rules/laws is really going to stop other foreigners trying to be successful are dead wrong. Yes, it’s more frustrating, yes a lot of us ends up saying “what the fvck?”. And yes, you can slow people down who really want to strive to better themselves. But reality is, you will never be able to stop people who have that much passion and that determined to succeed, and doing so does nothing to improve your own situation. Many of us are already use to getting kicked around, picking up after your bullshit you deal us, and frankly as a result, many of us can take a lot more shit than most people probably can who haven’t gone through shit, can. And yet, we still do ok.
But to say these foreigners aren’t as good, aren’t as qualified. Well, that’s just plain ignorant. Many of these foreigners are scientists and researchers and academia. I don’t see many of you people harping on them rushing to get your masters or phd or interested in doing research.. I’m guessing probably not worth your time, energy, and probably doesnt “pay enough”…Afterall, I’m sure many of you, winning the “I came out of the lucky pussy” award, have that fabulous C-level executive position because you knew someone that knew someone that knew someone + had reasonably good credentials (maybe not perfect, but not bad…good enough)[/quote]
As someone who also won the “I came out of the lucky pussy” award, you may not consider me qualified to weigh in, but here goes. I was never doubting that you and many others may work harder than most who were born with certain advantages. I see it all the time. And as a female, I especially hear ya about the lack of fairness and like you, I’ve learned to work extra hard and just deal with it, because the statistics are not much better for women in C-level positions than they are for Asians (stats here for banking, where you can click on individual companies to get race/gender breakdowns: http://www.businessinsider.com/wall-street-bank-diversity-2015-8 and here for tech: http://www.businessinsider.com/diversity-in-tech-2014-2014-7?op=1)
My point was that I don’t think we should mix up a willingness to work hard with the extreme and misguided drive to participate in and win the race for admissions to a top tier school. It’s especially misguided because while it comes with many risks it does not provide the future career advantage that people have been led to believe it does. And certainly the ROI doesn’t add up in most cases, unless you receive a full ride or significant scholarship and then, sure why not, go to the Ivy league school.
Another thing to consider…what if some of that time spent in AP classes, SAT test prep, etc, was spent learning how to relate better to others and enriching kids’ characters and personalities in ways that aren’t so quantifiable, in ways that may improve their EQ rather than IQ? Wouldn’t that also provide an advantage in the quest to reach a C-level position? With all this focus on “hard work” where do those activities factor in?
And in the drive for the top tier college, how many parents are aware of the risk to kids’ mental and emotional stability, especially if the kid becomes convinced they “need” to get in and it doesn’t pan out? Psychiatrists and therapists offices are chock full of burnt out kids of all races, including Asians. Some may suggest the white kids are wimpy and Asian kids are tougher mentally but sadly, I bet there are just as many Asian suicide attempts and psychotic breaks at the top-ranking university hospitals as whites, if not more.
Is it worth it? Not for most and definitely not for our family, and not just because we won the “I came out of a lucky pussy” award and have some sort of misplaced confidence that the future will be easier for our kid.
I completely respect your work ethic, flu, and I like to believe mine is similar, but I do think that we should be careful not to confuse the difference between willingness to work hard and buying in to the college admissions race. Getting in to a top tier school is not the only way (and usually not the best way) to get to the C-level position or whatever else is your definition of success.[/quote]
None of my comment was directed at you Carli. Actually, I agree pretty much with everything you said. If you thought that if any of my comment was directed at you, then please don’t.[/quote]
Thank you, flu. No offense taken, and I didn’t mean to sound like I was taking it personally. I was just responding with my own opinion to your thoughtful post. 🙂
