[quote=CA renter]The worst employees tend to leave before benefits vest to any large extent. That doesn’t mean that some dead wood isn’t hanging around after too many years — and I absolutely support making it easier to fire truly bad employees.[/quote]
could not agree more, and think this concept should be extended to entrenched politicians (both on the left and right) because it seem they enable lots of the problems:
You are totally wrong about politicians and unions being on the same side of the table. Nothing could be further from the truth. Some politicians are labor-friendly, and others have a vitriolic hatred for unions. I have personal experience with contract negotiations, and there is NO truth to your statement that politicians automatically pander to unions.
Unions are no different from any other group that supports politicians who will further their particular interests.[/quote]
There is a perception (which I happen to share) that public unions have a great deal of control over the careers of their negotiating counterparties (i.e. politicians). Said another way its an old boys club, same as what happens in wall street, where the basic instinct is to protect their own. Bottom line is, politicians and public employees are part of a club, the “public at large” isn’t part of.
You most likely have lots of stories you know and want to share about $hit that happens on wall $t, but the same thing happens between public employee union members and politicians.
Recall the before SD made the national news headlines that we had a groper for a mayor (who was forced to resign), there was a similar pervert problem w/in the SDPD. Seem there is an “old boys club” attitude, because the reporter from the “reader” stated:
It was surprising to see the lengths that the City Attorney’s office went to try and get this case dismissed.
I have my own sad example when I encountered the “old boys club,”, that is kinda how I stumbled onto the issue of public “pensions,” basically I followed the money motive trail…
I have a feeling there is something akin to a watergate type mentality w/ local politician (goldsmith and gloria) who are being sued for wanting to delete eMails from both their personal and official city accounts.
I think these officials are trying to hide public employee sins of the past that have something to do with software that allows building permit fraud and tax dodges possible with properties labeled as “historic”
Jim Mills, a former state senator from San Diego who pushed for the law’s creation in 1972, said he is surprised by how the financially strapped city has embraced the program during a time when it has had to close swimming pools, reduce library hours and delay sewer and water projects.
“I have to admit what I had in mind was significant buildings and houses, and I now see houses being covered by the Mills Act that were not what I had in mind,” Mills said.
Imagine you’re a developer with a pal who handles permits for the city of San Diego. And say you thought the permitting fees were a little too high. Not to worry, your pal says, and he knocks down the price for you.
I’d guessing if there were some kind of public vote, I’d bet a majority of people would have to wonder if the “public employee economic self interest” more often than not is biased inward toward “the old boys club” rather than to the public at large.
[quote=CA renter]Many have defined benefits, and DB plans were the norm a few decades ago…you know, when the middle class and the economy were at their strongest.[/quote]
Ya don’t seem to understand basic cause and effect, like when I pointed out the reason DB pensions came to be associated with so called “middle class” jobs in the USA is because of unique global economic conditions that existed in the 1950’s and 60’s.
Anyway I’d further argue the big deal made about “middle class” in the USA, was done as part of an “unofficial” cold war hearts and minds propaganda effort directed toward those in the USSR.
For example in high school I was told the USA included adding the words “in god we trust” to the US dollar bill in the late 50’s (to show those “godless” communists, we in the west have freedom of religions),
Then there was the “nixon” kitchen debate, to show those “poor” communists, the capitalist economic system can make guns as well as butter….
[quote=CA renter]I don’t get distracted by non-economic issues where politics are concerned. That’s not to say that these issues are unimportant, but that they pale in comparison to economics.[/quote]
If you’re just starting off on your own journey to think like an “economist,” perhaps you might consider its a good thing to have low corporate taxes (because that is where jobs are). Like when I first did experiments and the associated math in quantum mechanics, thinking like an economist has its own counterintuitive to normal everyday life logic one has ponder just a bit before things make sense.
Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that’s good. Don’t tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.
As to why labor participation rates are low, consider “thinking like an economist” and you might see it might be due to the fact that technology lessens the demand for those with just “brawn” to offer the market, combined with the fact that with population growth there is a “skills” mis-match.
It might not feel right that conditions change, but fact is, things in life do change…[/quote]
Whew! You’ve thrown a lot of stuff out there, the vast majority of which has absolutely nothing at all to do with public pensions. But I’ll address the issues in separate posts, one subject at a time, below.
[edited to add:] Have run out of time today, but will get on this tomorrow. :)[/quote]
still no answer? or comments from the peanut gallery??
[quote=livinincali]
The one benefit of defined benefit contribution plans, retention, isn’t worth the risks, the frauds, the vote buying, and everything else it enables. That’s the bottom line. The rewards (reduced training costs retention, etc.) don’t outweigh the risks and therefore they should be scrapped..[/quote]
Agree! And after doing some research, seems the best way forward is to follow the example set by the Thrift Saving Plan (a federal government 401K style program, that can’t be corrupted/mismanaged like what happend at CalPERS or as what is happening with the SD pension program)
Getting back to the topic of the economy and how things will be affected locally. After the bubble burst in 2007, the FED response to save the system from total failure because of “swaps,” was to buy “the too big to fail” mortgage backed securities from various banks.
Since about 2011 the 1%, people who can qualify for “credit” and the hot Chinese money have driven up RE prices because the money supply has dramatically increased.
The paradox is the money velocity, it is at a record low!
With 4 trillion being printed out of thin air in the USA, and 15+ trillion in china, the next economic downturn seems to me will be caused at the local level (when public pension accounting rules change, interest rates reset, etc.). And the FED IMHO being a one trick pony won’t have any way to help out??
Actually anyone one else think the geo-political danger for the USA is if the FED further increases the money supply in order to try and kick the LOCAL unfunded public pension issue(s) further down the road?
From what I gather, this will play right into the BRICS plans to create an alternative to the dollar as the default global reserve currency.
Basically by not getting our LOCAL city/county/state “banana republic” financial house in order, it further accelerates/weakens the position of the USA as an economic/military superpower!
One last thing to ponder, Don’t Blame Shrinking Work Force Participation on Great Recession (according to a FED Paper)
