[quote=AN]BG, $31k before tax. How much would it be after tax? Then how much do you have to pay for child care for 2 kids? How much does diapers, baby food, etc. cost? How much does healthcare cost? Then there’s the intangible of having a parent raising the kid instead of a stranger. Have a parent there to tutor the kids after school when they’re older, making sure they’re well fed with home cooked meals, making sure they stay out of trouble. I think if you add all of that up, I would say it’s worth more than $31k.[/quote]
Too bad you missed our discussion on Kev’s “baggage” thread. We were discussing this very thing, especially as it pertains to the value of having a SAHP. The conversation mostly began on page 14, but feel free to read the entire thread for context if you have some extra days with nothing better to do! 😉 I posted this…
[quote=CA renter][quote=bearishgurl]Yes, it was the right decision, CAR. I now have a pension and a generous healthcare allowance until I die. I also have another small pension and investments. I divorced in CA (a community property state) and thus everything we owned got split down the middle. I am thankful we made good investments, had no debt but mortgage debt and lived well below our means. I am very thankful for all the decisions we/I made in the past.
I hope none of your “well-educated” friends who opted to throw their degrees away to stay at home have to try to dredge up their (now dated) degree they haven’t used in years and actually try to sell it to a prospective employer in attempt to survive. Especially if they wait until they are 50-ish to do so.
I don’t believe your “highly educated friends” would only keep 30 cents on the dollar of their wages if they worked FT. Especially those who were making $100K+ before they decided to quit and stay home. That seems very low to me. Without identifying anyone, can you furnish a breakdown of their former salaries and expenses which caused them to keep only .30 on the dollar?
It doesn’t cost that much to work. Even an attorney can buy dress suits at a consignment shop for pennies on the dollar. I have kid(s) in SF who buy (expensive-when-new) designer duds and shoes/boots in those places regularly. Believe it or not, attorneys actually ride the bus and trolley to work (at $72 mo), brown bag their lunches most days and have their own “coffee station” in their offices. That is just an example of a full-time San Diego area professional’s lifestyle. Yes, many have minor kids. Like everyone else, their children also have relatives, day camp, horse camp, overnight camp, home daycare, pre-K, spouse on a slightly different schedule and so on. They make it work to continue their chosen careers without interruption.[/quote]
You really need to read this book, BG.
And while it’s great that you would brown-bag it and ride the bus everyday to work, while keeping your kid in after-school care, most professionals don’t do that.
Again, what you chose for yourself is NOT what’s best for everyone else…whether about housing, career decisions, child-rearing, etc.
Edited to add some quick, back-of-the-envelope numbers. Please double check my numbers, as I did this quickly.
, with one infant, one toddler, and preschool…and this is one of the less expensive options, as most professionals would want a “better”/more prestigious preschool option (using North County Coastal numbers…weekly expense X 50 weeks/12 to get a monthly number, allowing for 2-week vacation)
Childcare: $3,118.05/month
Transportation Expenses
-accelerated car purchase expenses, assuming commute is doubled as a result of wage-earning. Being very conservative here, if a SAH spouse can get 16 years out of a car, but doubles the commute if wage-earning, then that care will only last 8 years. If they buy a $20,000 car (not even taking into account interest, sales tax, registration expenses, and higher insurance costs, etc.), The monthly cost of the 16-year car is $104.17, and the 8-year car is $208.34…for a monthly difference of $104.17. The real number would likely be much higher than this, but some commutes might be shorter, and a car might not last 16 years, even with the lower miles, so think it would be a wash, more or less.
$104.12/month
-Accelerated repair/maintenance, assuming approximately $300/yr costs. This is probably low, but leaving room for additional repair costs on a car that is older, irrespective of the reduced mileage.
$25.00/month
-Gas, assuming average commute for a SAH being 500 miles/month, doubling to 1000 miles for the wage-earner (average mileage for most working people). If car gets 20 MPG, 25 gallons for the SAHP, and 50 gallons for the wage-earner (abbreviated WE from here on out). At a cost of $4.00/gallon, which is about the average around here over the past 7-8 years, the SAHP pays $100/month, and the WE pays $200/month, for a difference of…
$100.00/month
-Insurance, registration, sales tax, etc. would all be higher for the WE, but I’m going to let these costs slide for reasons stated above. Again, I’m trying to give your side the benefit of the doubt here.
$0.00
Food Expenses
While you might have managed to brown bag it every day for decades, most working people spend extra money on food when they work outside of the home. Perhaps these are choices, but we have to deal with reality, so will use what people do in the real world. Don’t forget, it’s not only lunches, but breakfasts and dinners. I have no doubt that the vast majority of working people eat out more often than SAHPs. Not only that, but they are less likely to shop when things are on sale because they will shop whenever and wherever they get the opportunity to do so. But I’ll give you the upper hand here and make it only $75/month more for a family of five, even though I know that is exceedingly low.
$75.00/month
Clothing
Yes, some people can dress casually, but many SAHPs dress even worse. For example, I wear an old pair of tennis shoes which I replace maybe once every 5 or 6 years, then I have very cheap flip-flops. I usually go barefoot or just wear socks around the house. My clothes are old, stained, and torn. My lovely DH doesn’t mind too much. Whereas I spend *maybe* $200/year on shoes/clothing for myself (and that would be very much on the high end and include “unmentionables”), I would have to spend quite a bit more to work in an office where I could earn $45,000/year. I am not including any additional costs for laundry/professional cleaning. Again, this number is definitely giving you the benefit of the doubt, and I will include any extra cosmetics, hair care, nails, etc. in this number. $200/yr/12=
$16.67/month
The total cost for wage-earning for this person is $4360.11/month. If her gross income is $45,000 (and this assumes that she has a job at that salary that will enable her to leave “early” to pick up her kids by 6:00 p.m.), her gross monthly income is $3750.00. In other words, she would be working for a NEGATIVE income of $610.11/month!
Now, you might say that this is only an issue while the children are very young, before they all qualify for “free” public schooling, but if a woman spaces a child every 18 months, she would have *at least* two years during which it would make absolutely no economical sense to work outside of the home. Even after the kids could attend “free” school (and I use the term “free” with tongue planted firmly in cheek, as the value of the work done doesn’t go away, it just gets cost-shifted), if a woman were to work full-time, after-school costs would be ~$800.00/month (assuming their prices are listed based on sibling discount, so am using what I believe are the discounted numbers). This does NOT include camps, etc. for when students are out of school, and it doesn’t include mornings.
So, even if we subtract out the childcare costs for young children and substitute the lower costs of after-school childcare, the spouse who is lucky enough to earn $45,000 in San Diego County (not as easy as one might think outside of mobile phones and biotech), will be netting a monthly income of $1707.94. For this, she will have to sacrifice all of her time with her family, along with adding all the stress of working, commuting, and trying to peacefully divide the household chores with the other spouse who is likely also working full-time, with all that that entails.
Now do you understand why so many families have chosen to opt-out of this “feminist utopia”?[/quote]
…and realized afterward that I had forgotten to compute the other spouse’s income, which would have pushed this second income-earners income into a much higher tax bracket; making the true numbers even worse than what I had posted. BG (and others) insists that it doesn’t make sense to have a SAHP — that this person is a drain on the family’s finances, but nobody else dared to come up with the actual numbers like I did (though BG has been saying that she would do so, and would include the first wage-earner’s income in order to get the true picture of how much that second spouse is **really** earning when choosing to work outside the home. Of course, that would make the case for having a SAHP even more compelling, which is why I think we still haven’t seen the numbers.
It’s pretty eye-opening when you run the actual numbers.
