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what_a_disasta.
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July 31, 2007 at 11:08 AM #9657July 31, 2007 at 11:59 AM #68941
SD Realtor
Participantdpsvend I understand your frustration.
This happens alot.
A few things to remember… the agent works for the seller so the seller is most likely the person who instructed the agent to give you the amount on the counter. (as insulting to you as it may be)How long has the home been on the market? How much equity do the sellers have in the home? How motivated are the sellers?
If he has the other offers then so be it.
When he sent you a counter offer did he write in the multiple counter offers area?
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Verifying that there are multiple counter offers is not easy. If you really do not believe this to be the case then have your realtor call the broker and ask if this is true. What proof do you have that he is lying?
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If you have a complaint then you can call the California DRE. However, simply filing a complaint based on an assumption on your part cannot be backed up.
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Again, it is quite difficult to prove other offers exist but when an agent tells me that is the case, I assume it to be true.
Several weeks back I made an offer for a client on a home in RB. We gave a fair offer, in the lower 1/3 of the price range. The Prudential listing agent said they had another offer and they countered us in a similar manner that you complained about it. My buyer got pissed and walked. The home is still on the market.
As someone who is quietly shopping for his own own, I run across many sellers who refuse my lowball offers. Similarly I run across listing agents who drive me crazy. Hang in there, ask your agent to have his broker call the listing agents broker if you REALLY believe this to be true.
SD Realtor
July 31, 2007 at 11:59 AM #69011Participantdpsvend I understand your frustration.
This happens alot.
A few things to remember… the agent works for the seller so the seller is most likely the person who instructed the agent to give you the amount on the counter. (as insulting to you as it may be)How long has the home been on the market? How much equity do the sellers have in the home? How motivated are the sellers?
If he has the other offers then so be it.
When he sent you a counter offer did he write in the multiple counter offers area?
*******
Verifying that there are multiple counter offers is not easy. If you really do not believe this to be the case then have your realtor call the broker and ask if this is true. What proof do you have that he is lying?
*******
If you have a complaint then you can call the California DRE. However, simply filing a complaint based on an assumption on your part cannot be backed up.
*******
Again, it is quite difficult to prove other offers exist but when an agent tells me that is the case, I assume it to be true.
Several weeks back I made an offer for a client on a home in RB. We gave a fair offer, in the lower 1/3 of the price range. The Prudential listing agent said they had another offer and they countered us in a similar manner that you complained about it. My buyer got pissed and walked. The home is still on the market.
As someone who is quietly shopping for his own own, I run across many sellers who refuse my lowball offers. Similarly I run across listing agents who drive me crazy. Hang in there, ask your agent to have his broker call the listing agents broker if you REALLY believe this to be true.
SD Realtor
July 31, 2007 at 12:39 PM #68948SanDiegoDave
ParticipantSD Realtor…
Thank you very much for the reply!
We have been tracking the house for quite a while. It was initially on the market for 120 days, and then expired. They re-listed it, as a “new” listing, so now it shows up as having been on the market for only ~20 days.
I don’t know how much equity the sellers have in the home (where do I find that?). But I do know they are the original owners and have lived there for over 20 years.
The day before their initial listing expired (we didn’t know it was about to expire) we had our agent call theirs to ask the standard questions. He told our agent (this was over a month ago) that he had three offers on it (above what we were offering), and that they were countering even above those other offers.
Then the thing expired the next day. We, and our agent, were quite perplexed by this. One day from expiring, and their agent says nothing about it?
Then it got re-listed a few days later.
We waited about two more weeks, figuring that if their agent was right about having those three other offers that it would be dropping off into escrow at any moment.
But there it sat. Day after day. Not going into escrow.
We assumed then that their agent was either lying or incompetent (he just can’t close even one of three offers that was within 2% of the asking price??) We figured we would throw our offer out there to see how they officially reply.
The official counter came back, with the whopping $500 drop and a claim in writing that he has these three other offers going. Assuming these are the same three offers he claimed to have had two weeks earlier, they would no longer be valid. Right? Unless he was implying that he had three NEW offers (and all at EXACTLY the same price btw).
It all seemed a very dubious claim designed solely to scare us off or make us raise our offer way up. That’s why we think he’s lying about the other offers.
We countered again with what would have been our “planned” counter-counter – a full $20k higher – had they responded with a reasonable counter of their own. Our thought was, we’ll leave it at that – and if it’s still on the market 100 days from now we can ask him how those three other offers are coming along.
But their second counter was even weirder. They dropped another $500 (gee, THANKS!) But he actually asked our agent, in writing, why he didn’t have us “ask or counter back with the seller carry back 2nd trust deed for the difference”.
Huh?
Again, this guy (and/or his client) is either delusional or just incompetent. Our paperwork in the offers clearly stated our situation: well-qualified buyers (mid-FICO in the 790’s), 30% down, and not contingent. Coming up with the money is not the problem. The problem is that they’re asking too much for the freakin’ house.
Anyway… I understand that some people simply will not (or cannot) sell a house below a certain price. But if an agent has to resort to lying – which I believe to be the case here – rather than just stating outright that they absolutely cannot go below a certain price, I think it’s unethical and deserving of a complaint.
July 31, 2007 at 12:39 PM #69019ParticipantSD Realtor…
Thank you very much for the reply!
We have been tracking the house for quite a while. It was initially on the market for 120 days, and then expired. They re-listed it, as a “new” listing, so now it shows up as having been on the market for only ~20 days.
I don’t know how much equity the sellers have in the home (where do I find that?). But I do know they are the original owners and have lived there for over 20 years.
The day before their initial listing expired (we didn’t know it was about to expire) we had our agent call theirs to ask the standard questions. He told our agent (this was over a month ago) that he had three offers on it (above what we were offering), and that they were countering even above those other offers.
Then the thing expired the next day. We, and our agent, were quite perplexed by this. One day from expiring, and their agent says nothing about it?
Then it got re-listed a few days later.
We waited about two more weeks, figuring that if their agent was right about having those three other offers that it would be dropping off into escrow at any moment.
But there it sat. Day after day. Not going into escrow.
We assumed then that their agent was either lying or incompetent (he just can’t close even one of three offers that was within 2% of the asking price??) We figured we would throw our offer out there to see how they officially reply.
The official counter came back, with the whopping $500 drop and a claim in writing that he has these three other offers going. Assuming these are the same three offers he claimed to have had two weeks earlier, they would no longer be valid. Right? Unless he was implying that he had three NEW offers (and all at EXACTLY the same price btw).
It all seemed a very dubious claim designed solely to scare us off or make us raise our offer way up. That’s why we think he’s lying about the other offers.
We countered again with what would have been our “planned” counter-counter – a full $20k higher – had they responded with a reasonable counter of their own. Our thought was, we’ll leave it at that – and if it’s still on the market 100 days from now we can ask him how those three other offers are coming along.
But their second counter was even weirder. They dropped another $500 (gee, THANKS!) But he actually asked our agent, in writing, why he didn’t have us “ask or counter back with the seller carry back 2nd trust deed for the difference”.
Huh?
Again, this guy (and/or his client) is either delusional or just incompetent. Our paperwork in the offers clearly stated our situation: well-qualified buyers (mid-FICO in the 790’s), 30% down, and not contingent. Coming up with the money is not the problem. The problem is that they’re asking too much for the freakin’ house.
Anyway… I understand that some people simply will not (or cannot) sell a house below a certain price. But if an agent has to resort to lying – which I believe to be the case here – rather than just stating outright that they absolutely cannot go below a certain price, I think it’s unethical and deserving of a complaint.
July 31, 2007 at 1:10 PM #68952(former)FormerSanDiegan
ParticipantSmells like a flaky seller.
July 31, 2007 at 1:10 PM #69023ParticipantSmells like a flaky seller.
July 31, 2007 at 1:20 PM #69027GoUSC
ParticipantWalk away. Don’t get emotionally wrapped up in this house. I had the same thing happen to me and just walked away. There will be other houses and they’ll be cheaper. It is difficult/impossible to prove a broker is lying. And like stated above the seller is probably just a flake.
FYI the house I walked away from did close for $10k above asking. The buyer, finance 100% from none other than AMERICAN HOME MORTGAGE. HAHAHAHHAA. I predict he will be defaulting in a few months.
July 31, 2007 at 1:20 PM #68957ParticipantWalk away. Don’t get emotionally wrapped up in this house. I had the same thing happen to me and just walked away. There will be other houses and they’ll be cheaper. It is difficult/impossible to prove a broker is lying. And like stated above the seller is probably just a flake.
FYI the house I walked away from did close for $10k above asking. The buyer, finance 100% from none other than AMERICAN HOME MORTGAGE. HAHAHAHHAA. I predict he will be defaulting in a few months.
July 31, 2007 at 2:14 PM #68966Participantdpsvend I would agree that the replies you are getting back are driven by the seller not the agent. Believe it or not listing agents don’t like to represent properties for months on in.
However, your point about the counter offers does sound dubious. Again, have your realtor ask his broker to call this agents broker.
Also your realtor should have already done a thorough analysis on what the home was bought for, and what the most likely equity position the sellers have in it. He can check the tax roll for the 4 most recent recordings and he can have his title officer send him a complete document set of recordings.
SD Realtor
July 31, 2007 at 2:14 PM #69037Participantdpsvend I would agree that the replies you are getting back are driven by the seller not the agent. Believe it or not listing agents don’t like to represent properties for months on in.
However, your point about the counter offers does sound dubious. Again, have your realtor ask his broker to call this agents broker.
Also your realtor should have already done a thorough analysis on what the home was bought for, and what the most likely equity position the sellers have in it. He can check the tax roll for the 4 most recent recordings and he can have his title officer send him a complete document set of recordings.
SD Realtor
July 31, 2007 at 2:59 PM #68976NYer
ParticipantSD Realtor —
Thanks for your response to the OP and generally for your contributions to the board.
Could you please explain why you “assume it to be true” when an agent says they have multiple offers?
I just got a counter on a property that has similar listing characteristics as the OP’s property — on market since March; expired (or, more likely, pulled) and re-listed; house vacant. Multiple offers are claimed.
This same agent, in an original counter, actually put in the what I believe to be the illegal under RESPA requirement that we qualify with a designated mortgage broker of the seller’s choice.
Given that prior move (which we rejected out-of-hand, of course)I have no reason to believe that the agent is above lying about counter-offers. Why should I think otherwise?
–relocating NYer
July 31, 2007 at 2:59 PM #69047ParticipantSD Realtor —
Thanks for your response to the OP and generally for your contributions to the board.
Could you please explain why you “assume it to be true” when an agent says they have multiple offers?
I just got a counter on a property that has similar listing characteristics as the OP’s property — on market since March; expired (or, more likely, pulled) and re-listed; house vacant. Multiple offers are claimed.
This same agent, in an original counter, actually put in the what I believe to be the illegal under RESPA requirement that we qualify with a designated mortgage broker of the seller’s choice.
Given that prior move (which we rejected out-of-hand, of course)I have no reason to believe that the agent is above lying about counter-offers. Why should I think otherwise?
–relocating NYer
July 31, 2007 at 3:16 PM #68985ParticipantNYer, I assume it to be true because there is just to much to lose for an agent to do something dumb like that.
Also many of my buyers are MUCH more astute and selective. Most of them, will not even respond to a counter offer that indicates multiple offers have been received. Thus, in those cases actually scares buyers off.
Really though, what recourse do I have? I can call the listing agents broker to ask, but that is generally counter productive for the transaction. I think that in many cases the seller is wagging the agents tail. Again, listing agents don’t like to hold properties. It is always the next sale that is most important. You may be surprised in some cases that the listing agent is actually pulling to get the transaction done, but the seller is being ornary. If indeed you do find the agent to be lying, then absolutely report that agent, call his broker, raise some hell.
The worst thing about this post is that I am sitting here sounding like a shill for the industry and I hate that!!
*****
Your case sounds interesting. The provision that you qualify with a broker of the sellers choice is peculiar. Is this an REO? I represented a client who purchased an REO from Countrywide and we had to qualify with them, but not use them. Similarly just about EVERY new home purchase from the developer will require a qualification to be done with the preferred lender but you do not have to use them for financing. If yours is a resale and not an REO then you “may” have recourse. From the sellers point of view they may have asked of this because they don’t want any flaky buyers who were prequalified by Joes Mortgage company that operates in a dark alley… see what I am saying?
Look guys, in BOTH of your cases, multiple offers may be claimed, however offers do have expirations associated with them. BE MORE PROACTIVE!!! Or HAVE YOUR AGENT BE MORE PROACTIVE. If you really don’t believe that the offers exist ask when they expire. Keep tabs on them and press harder into it.
July 31, 2007 at 3:16 PM #69055ParticipantNYer, I assume it to be true because there is just to much to lose for an agent to do something dumb like that.
Also many of my buyers are MUCH more astute and selective. Most of them, will not even respond to a counter offer that indicates multiple offers have been received. Thus, in those cases actually scares buyers off.
Really though, what recourse do I have? I can call the listing agents broker to ask, but that is generally counter productive for the transaction. I think that in many cases the seller is wagging the agents tail. Again, listing agents don’t like to hold properties. It is always the next sale that is most important. You may be surprised in some cases that the listing agent is actually pulling to get the transaction done, but the seller is being ornary. If indeed you do find the agent to be lying, then absolutely report that agent, call his broker, raise some hell.
The worst thing about this post is that I am sitting here sounding like a shill for the industry and I hate that!!
*****
Your case sounds interesting. The provision that you qualify with a broker of the sellers choice is peculiar. Is this an REO? I represented a client who purchased an REO from Countrywide and we had to qualify with them, but not use them. Similarly just about EVERY new home purchase from the developer will require a qualification to be done with the preferred lender but you do not have to use them for financing. If yours is a resale and not an REO then you “may” have recourse. From the sellers point of view they may have asked of this because they don’t want any flaky buyers who were prequalified by Joes Mortgage company that operates in a dark alley… see what I am saying?
Look guys, in BOTH of your cases, multiple offers may be claimed, however offers do have expirations associated with them. BE MORE PROACTIVE!!! Or HAVE YOUR AGENT BE MORE PROACTIVE. If you really don’t believe that the offers exist ask when they expire. Keep tabs on them and press harder into it.
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