[quote=surveyor]oh, dan, you constantly disappoint me with your lack of reading detail. I would never say that I know more about Islam than anybody else. I have never said this in the past.
However, where you and I have contentions is that I do not automatically take liberal historians words as gospel like you do.
The universal calls for violence in Islam stem from these facts: a) the violent verses in the koran b) the affirmation of these verses by the religious authorities of islam through the years. I’m sorry to tell you the facts, but that’s how it is interpreted in Islam. There are people in Islam who say that no the verses aren’t violent or no the verses are misinterpreted, but the fact of the matter is that in Islamic law, these verses are violent and are taught that way. If you could talk to those muslim leaders who wrote that letter, even they would say they have no authority to challenge established Islamic law.
That they ask for peace or request peace, it changes nothing in the core islamic text and the religious authorities who established islamic law.[/quote]
The bible suggests that death can be an appropriate remedy for violating the shabbas and likewise that death can be a just punishment for sodomites (though there is dispute as to that definition).
That does not necessarily make Christianity anti-work or anti-gay.
Quran sections 42:39 and 2:190 seem to say a lot about jihad (struggle) as distinct from quital (fighting).
Ash-Shaifi was the first to bless offensive struggle.
That did not occur until over a century after the Quran was completed.
It occurred when Shaifi was looking for a religious justification for expanding an empire.
I don’t really see how this is different from Constantine’s conversion or saying “praise the lord and pass the ammunition”.
Islam only has 5 basic principles:
-Creed/belief
-worship/prayer
-charity for the poor
-fasting/asceticism
-pilgrimage
Blowing shit up is doesn’t really come into play until it starts getting used as an inexpensive form of resistance.
You make it sound as if one must swear an allegiance to violence at the mosque.
Thats no more true of Muslims than it is of Americans.
In that sense there is a grain of truth in that just like most Muslims (or Christians or black people), if you saw your fellow Americans being held down (lets say a Chinese invasion), then you would probably take up arms to help out. At least I would.
