Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › The Real Great Depression (Panic of 1873)
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October 6, 2008 at 7:45 PM #14101October 6, 2008 at 11:30 PM #282455underdoseParticipant
Thank you for posting this. Just responding to keep it near the top so others may read.
I wonder what investment strategies were successful for capital preservation back then. Still, I assume the one big difference between now and then is the gold standard. There was no Fed in the 1870’s, and no opportunity to print one’s way out of the crisis. I’ll still wager we are in completely uncharted waters now.
October 6, 2008 at 11:30 PM #282737underdoseParticipantThank you for posting this. Just responding to keep it near the top so others may read.
I wonder what investment strategies were successful for capital preservation back then. Still, I assume the one big difference between now and then is the gold standard. There was no Fed in the 1870’s, and no opportunity to print one’s way out of the crisis. I’ll still wager we are in completely uncharted waters now.
October 6, 2008 at 11:30 PM #282764underdoseParticipantThank you for posting this. Just responding to keep it near the top so others may read.
I wonder what investment strategies were successful for capital preservation back then. Still, I assume the one big difference between now and then is the gold standard. There was no Fed in the 1870’s, and no opportunity to print one’s way out of the crisis. I’ll still wager we are in completely uncharted waters now.
October 6, 2008 at 11:30 PM #282780underdoseParticipantThank you for posting this. Just responding to keep it near the top so others may read.
I wonder what investment strategies were successful for capital preservation back then. Still, I assume the one big difference between now and then is the gold standard. There was no Fed in the 1870’s, and no opportunity to print one’s way out of the crisis. I’ll still wager we are in completely uncharted waters now.
October 6, 2008 at 11:30 PM #282791underdoseParticipantThank you for posting this. Just responding to keep it near the top so others may read.
I wonder what investment strategies were successful for capital preservation back then. Still, I assume the one big difference between now and then is the gold standard. There was no Fed in the 1870’s, and no opportunity to print one’s way out of the crisis. I’ll still wager we are in completely uncharted waters now.
October 7, 2008 at 12:43 AM #282480CA renterParticipantYes, thank you for posting that article.
The only thing I would question is the claim that the Great Depression wasn’t related to a credit bubble. There was sharply rising debt and increased wealth disparity just before the Depression. Just like we have now.
With this dramatic increase in the instalment selling of automobiles came the expansion of this technique into the markets for other major durable goods. According to credit expert Rolf Nugent, the success of automobile instalment plans “tended to remove the stigma which instalment selling had acquired at the hands of low-grade instalment merchants in the 1890s.”20 In fact, credit was used in the purchases of up to 90% of major durable goods by the end of the 1920s.21 Average purchases of major durable goods rose from 3.7% of disposable income between 1898 and 1916 to 7.2% between 1922 and 1929. Accompanying this rise in purchases of durables was a drop in the personal savings rate, from 6.4% of disposable income in the former period to 3.8% in the latter.22
http://etext.virginia.edu/journals/EH/EH37/Murphy.html
IMHO, all depressions occur when the greatest number of people have the greatest amount of debt, and the wealth disparity is the greatest (tends to happen concurrently because credit shifts money away from the working class/labor to the capitalists/lenders).
Basically, all the future demand has been exhausted (because everyone brings their purchases forward when using credit, and they now have to use current/future income to service that debt), which leads to deflation as the debt is destroyed via rolling bankruptcies and foreclosures.
October 7, 2008 at 12:43 AM #282762CA renterParticipantYes, thank you for posting that article.
The only thing I would question is the claim that the Great Depression wasn’t related to a credit bubble. There was sharply rising debt and increased wealth disparity just before the Depression. Just like we have now.
With this dramatic increase in the instalment selling of automobiles came the expansion of this technique into the markets for other major durable goods. According to credit expert Rolf Nugent, the success of automobile instalment plans “tended to remove the stigma which instalment selling had acquired at the hands of low-grade instalment merchants in the 1890s.”20 In fact, credit was used in the purchases of up to 90% of major durable goods by the end of the 1920s.21 Average purchases of major durable goods rose from 3.7% of disposable income between 1898 and 1916 to 7.2% between 1922 and 1929. Accompanying this rise in purchases of durables was a drop in the personal savings rate, from 6.4% of disposable income in the former period to 3.8% in the latter.22
http://etext.virginia.edu/journals/EH/EH37/Murphy.html
IMHO, all depressions occur when the greatest number of people have the greatest amount of debt, and the wealth disparity is the greatest (tends to happen concurrently because credit shifts money away from the working class/labor to the capitalists/lenders).
Basically, all the future demand has been exhausted (because everyone brings their purchases forward when using credit, and they now have to use current/future income to service that debt), which leads to deflation as the debt is destroyed via rolling bankruptcies and foreclosures.
October 7, 2008 at 12:43 AM #282789CA renterParticipantYes, thank you for posting that article.
The only thing I would question is the claim that the Great Depression wasn’t related to a credit bubble. There was sharply rising debt and increased wealth disparity just before the Depression. Just like we have now.
With this dramatic increase in the instalment selling of automobiles came the expansion of this technique into the markets for other major durable goods. According to credit expert Rolf Nugent, the success of automobile instalment plans “tended to remove the stigma which instalment selling had acquired at the hands of low-grade instalment merchants in the 1890s.”20 In fact, credit was used in the purchases of up to 90% of major durable goods by the end of the 1920s.21 Average purchases of major durable goods rose from 3.7% of disposable income between 1898 and 1916 to 7.2% between 1922 and 1929. Accompanying this rise in purchases of durables was a drop in the personal savings rate, from 6.4% of disposable income in the former period to 3.8% in the latter.22
http://etext.virginia.edu/journals/EH/EH37/Murphy.html
IMHO, all depressions occur when the greatest number of people have the greatest amount of debt, and the wealth disparity is the greatest (tends to happen concurrently because credit shifts money away from the working class/labor to the capitalists/lenders).
Basically, all the future demand has been exhausted (because everyone brings their purchases forward when using credit, and they now have to use current/future income to service that debt), which leads to deflation as the debt is destroyed via rolling bankruptcies and foreclosures.
October 7, 2008 at 12:43 AM #282805CA renterParticipantYes, thank you for posting that article.
The only thing I would question is the claim that the Great Depression wasn’t related to a credit bubble. There was sharply rising debt and increased wealth disparity just before the Depression. Just like we have now.
With this dramatic increase in the instalment selling of automobiles came the expansion of this technique into the markets for other major durable goods. According to credit expert Rolf Nugent, the success of automobile instalment plans “tended to remove the stigma which instalment selling had acquired at the hands of low-grade instalment merchants in the 1890s.”20 In fact, credit was used in the purchases of up to 90% of major durable goods by the end of the 1920s.21 Average purchases of major durable goods rose from 3.7% of disposable income between 1898 and 1916 to 7.2% between 1922 and 1929. Accompanying this rise in purchases of durables was a drop in the personal savings rate, from 6.4% of disposable income in the former period to 3.8% in the latter.22
http://etext.virginia.edu/journals/EH/EH37/Murphy.html
IMHO, all depressions occur when the greatest number of people have the greatest amount of debt, and the wealth disparity is the greatest (tends to happen concurrently because credit shifts money away from the working class/labor to the capitalists/lenders).
Basically, all the future demand has been exhausted (because everyone brings their purchases forward when using credit, and they now have to use current/future income to service that debt), which leads to deflation as the debt is destroyed via rolling bankruptcies and foreclosures.
October 7, 2008 at 12:43 AM #282816CA renterParticipantYes, thank you for posting that article.
The only thing I would question is the claim that the Great Depression wasn’t related to a credit bubble. There was sharply rising debt and increased wealth disparity just before the Depression. Just like we have now.
With this dramatic increase in the instalment selling of automobiles came the expansion of this technique into the markets for other major durable goods. According to credit expert Rolf Nugent, the success of automobile instalment plans “tended to remove the stigma which instalment selling had acquired at the hands of low-grade instalment merchants in the 1890s.”20 In fact, credit was used in the purchases of up to 90% of major durable goods by the end of the 1920s.21 Average purchases of major durable goods rose from 3.7% of disposable income between 1898 and 1916 to 7.2% between 1922 and 1929. Accompanying this rise in purchases of durables was a drop in the personal savings rate, from 6.4% of disposable income in the former period to 3.8% in the latter.22
http://etext.virginia.edu/journals/EH/EH37/Murphy.html
IMHO, all depressions occur when the greatest number of people have the greatest amount of debt, and the wealth disparity is the greatest (tends to happen concurrently because credit shifts money away from the working class/labor to the capitalists/lenders).
Basically, all the future demand has been exhausted (because everyone brings their purchases forward when using credit, and they now have to use current/future income to service that debt), which leads to deflation as the debt is destroyed via rolling bankruptcies and foreclosures.
October 7, 2008 at 6:59 AM #282500EconProfParticipantOne factor that will make this downturn worse than previous ones is peoples’ current use of credit cards as a substitute for savings accounts to cushion for emergencies.
A generation or two ago, people regularly saved about 8% of their paychecks, on average. This fraction was fairly constant for many decades until about the mid-1990s. Families tended to have a “rainy day” fund for emergencies: medical, car breakdowns, etc., as well as a growing fund for planned vacations, car and house downpayments, and retirement. As a result, people learned to budget, defer gratification, plan their future, and watch proudly as their nest egg grew.
Rampant consumerism encouraged by marketers and lenders changed all that. It was abetted by schools and parents that abandoned teaching the values of thrift, saving, and any other old-fashioned values.
Nowadays, emergencies are met by credit, as are vacations, vehicles, holidays, etc. So as deleveraging hits our big financial institutions with such pain, the same process will confront individuals now deeply in debt.
The ratcheting up of CC interest rates for missed payments, or the yanking of allowable limits is the whack upside the head many people need. Its going to hurt, but its time to sober up.October 7, 2008 at 6:59 AM #282782EconProfParticipantOne factor that will make this downturn worse than previous ones is peoples’ current use of credit cards as a substitute for savings accounts to cushion for emergencies.
A generation or two ago, people regularly saved about 8% of their paychecks, on average. This fraction was fairly constant for many decades until about the mid-1990s. Families tended to have a “rainy day” fund for emergencies: medical, car breakdowns, etc., as well as a growing fund for planned vacations, car and house downpayments, and retirement. As a result, people learned to budget, defer gratification, plan their future, and watch proudly as their nest egg grew.
Rampant consumerism encouraged by marketers and lenders changed all that. It was abetted by schools and parents that abandoned teaching the values of thrift, saving, and any other old-fashioned values.
Nowadays, emergencies are met by credit, as are vacations, vehicles, holidays, etc. So as deleveraging hits our big financial institutions with such pain, the same process will confront individuals now deeply in debt.
The ratcheting up of CC interest rates for missed payments, or the yanking of allowable limits is the whack upside the head many people need. Its going to hurt, but its time to sober up.October 7, 2008 at 6:59 AM #282809EconProfParticipantOne factor that will make this downturn worse than previous ones is peoples’ current use of credit cards as a substitute for savings accounts to cushion for emergencies.
A generation or two ago, people regularly saved about 8% of their paychecks, on average. This fraction was fairly constant for many decades until about the mid-1990s. Families tended to have a “rainy day” fund for emergencies: medical, car breakdowns, etc., as well as a growing fund for planned vacations, car and house downpayments, and retirement. As a result, people learned to budget, defer gratification, plan their future, and watch proudly as their nest egg grew.
Rampant consumerism encouraged by marketers and lenders changed all that. It was abetted by schools and parents that abandoned teaching the values of thrift, saving, and any other old-fashioned values.
Nowadays, emergencies are met by credit, as are vacations, vehicles, holidays, etc. So as deleveraging hits our big financial institutions with such pain, the same process will confront individuals now deeply in debt.
The ratcheting up of CC interest rates for missed payments, or the yanking of allowable limits is the whack upside the head many people need. Its going to hurt, but its time to sober up.October 7, 2008 at 6:59 AM #282825EconProfParticipantOne factor that will make this downturn worse than previous ones is peoples’ current use of credit cards as a substitute for savings accounts to cushion for emergencies.
A generation or two ago, people regularly saved about 8% of their paychecks, on average. This fraction was fairly constant for many decades until about the mid-1990s. Families tended to have a “rainy day” fund for emergencies: medical, car breakdowns, etc., as well as a growing fund for planned vacations, car and house downpayments, and retirement. As a result, people learned to budget, defer gratification, plan their future, and watch proudly as their nest egg grew.
Rampant consumerism encouraged by marketers and lenders changed all that. It was abetted by schools and parents that abandoned teaching the values of thrift, saving, and any other old-fashioned values.
Nowadays, emergencies are met by credit, as are vacations, vehicles, holidays, etc. So as deleveraging hits our big financial institutions with such pain, the same process will confront individuals now deeply in debt.
The ratcheting up of CC interest rates for missed payments, or the yanking of allowable limits is the whack upside the head many people need. Its going to hurt, but its time to sober up. -
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