Upfront Mortgage Broker

[HLS]

FSBO,
It’s not “non published”

You implied that it was some big secret that nobody would ever know about.

I have always explained that a commission was paid when a borrower was overcharged in rate, but it is always disclosed on the closing statement from escrow.

I’m going to assume that English is not your first language…
It’s about the only way that I can excuse your ignorance. HLS

[fsbo]

As for lender commission, it’s not a secret. Regarding how big the commission is, it is ‘non published’ upfront. If it were not, you wouldn’t need to ask the simple question, or every broker would frankly explain it ..
Just for 417k 30yrs 0-point loan, when a rate of 4.625 yielded $2k in lender commission, $5k in commission could simply lead the same loan to a rate of 5.0.
Please don’t imply anything else here. I just tell a simple fact that the commission which seems directly coming from lender, would actually send a final loan rate higher than it should be.

[fsbo]

As for lender commission, it’s not a secret. Regarding how big the commission is, it is ‘non published’ upfront. If it were not, you wouldn’t need to ask the simple question, or every broker would frankly explain it ..
Just for 417k 30yrs 0-point loan, when a rate of 4.625 yielded $2k in lender commission, $5k in commission could simply lead the same loan to a rate of 5.0.
Please don’t imply anything else here. I just tell a simple fact that the commission which seems directly coming from lender, would actually send a final loan rate higher than it should be.

[fsbo]

As for lender commission, it’s not a secret. Regarding how big the commission is, it is ‘non published’ upfront. If it were not, you wouldn’t need to ask the simple question, or every broker would frankly explain it ..
Just for 417k 30yrs 0-point loan, when a rate of 4.625 yielded $2k in lender commission, $5k in commission could simply lead the same loan to a rate of 5.0.
Please don’t imply anything else here. I just tell a simple fact that the commission which seems directly coming from lender, would actually send a final loan rate higher than it should be.

[fsbo]

As for lender commission, it’s not a secret. Regarding how big the commission is, it is ‘non published’ upfront. If it were not, you wouldn’t need to ask the simple question, or every broker would frankly explain it ..
Just for 417k 30yrs 0-point loan, when a rate of 4.625 yielded $2k in lender commission, $5k in commission could simply lead the same loan to a rate of 5.0.
Please don’t imply anything else here. I just tell a simple fact that the commission which seems directly coming from lender, would actually send a final loan rate higher than it should be.

[fsbo]

As for lender commission, it’s not a secret. Regarding how big the commission is, it is ‘non published’ upfront. If it were not, you wouldn’t need to ask the simple question, or every broker would frankly explain it ..
Just for 417k 30yrs 0-point loan, when a rate of 4.625 yielded $2k in lender commission, $5k in commission could simply lead the same loan to a rate of 5.0.
Please don’t imply anything else here. I just tell a simple fact that the commission which seems directly coming from lender, would actually send a final loan rate higher than it should be.

[Raybyrnes]

It would seem to me that you simply want to eliminate the moving parts in the negotiation process.To do this it seems you could start with a specific time frame for locking a Par rate. Then it would come down to the fees and commission you are paying upfront.

For instance I am looking for 400K refinance. Eliminate all brokers and banks that will not give par rate quote. Once you have 2 or 3 to work with you are now boiling down what their cost is to do the loan. 3 brokers quoting 400 k at 4.5% on a 30 day lock on a 30 year fixed rate mortgage all on he same day. 1 charges 2k, one charges 3K, and 1 charges 4K. It seems to me that the one charging 2K is the guy to go with for the lowest cost of money.

Am I missing something?

[Raybyrnes]

It would seem to me that you simply want to eliminate the moving parts in the negotiation process.To do this it seems you could start with a specific time frame for locking a Par rate. Then it would come down to the fees and commission you are paying upfront.

For instance I am looking for 400K refinance. Eliminate all brokers and banks that will not give par rate quote. Once you have 2 or 3 to work with you are now boiling down what their cost is to do the loan. 3 brokers quoting 400 k at 4.5% on a 30 day lock on a 30 year fixed rate mortgage all on he same day. 1 charges 2k, one charges 3K, and 1 charges 4K. It seems to me that the one charging 2K is the guy to go with for the lowest cost of money.

Am I missing something?

[Raybyrnes]

It would seem to me that you simply want to eliminate the moving parts in the negotiation process.To do this it seems you could start with a specific time frame for locking a Par rate. Then it would come down to the fees and commission you are paying upfront.

For instance I am looking for 400K refinance. Eliminate all brokers and banks that will not give par rate quote. Once you have 2 or 3 to work with you are now boiling down what their cost is to do the loan. 3 brokers quoting 400 k at 4.5% on a 30 day lock on a 30 year fixed rate mortgage all on he same day. 1 charges 2k, one charges 3K, and 1 charges 4K. It seems to me that the one charging 2K is the guy to go with for the lowest cost of money.

Am I missing something?

[Raybyrnes]

It would seem to me that you simply want to eliminate the moving parts in the negotiation process.To do this it seems you could start with a specific time frame for locking a Par rate. Then it would come down to the fees and commission you are paying upfront.

For instance I am looking for 400K refinance. Eliminate all brokers and banks that will not give par rate quote. Once you have 2 or 3 to work with you are now boiling down what their cost is to do the loan. 3 brokers quoting 400 k at 4.5% on a 30 day lock on a 30 year fixed rate mortgage all on he same day. 1 charges 2k, one charges 3K, and 1 charges 4K. It seems to me that the one charging 2K is the guy to go with for the lowest cost of money.

Am I missing something?

[Raybyrnes]

It would seem to me that you simply want to eliminate the moving parts in the negotiation process.To do this it seems you could start with a specific time frame for locking a Par rate. Then it would come down to the fees and commission you are paying upfront.

For instance I am looking for 400K refinance. Eliminate all brokers and banks that will not give par rate quote. Once you have 2 or 3 to work with you are now boiling down what their cost is to do the loan. 3 brokers quoting 400 k at 4.5% on a 30 day lock on a 30 year fixed rate mortgage all on he same day. 1 charges 2k, one charges 3K, and 1 charges 4K. It seems to me that the one charging 2K is the guy to go with for the lowest cost of money.

Am I missing something?

[HLS]

Ray..
If it were a perfect “honest” world you are exactly right…

Different lenders have different “par” rates.
I have a way to possibly pull a higher credit score than somebody else at the exact same time.
Either of these things can make a difference of tens of thousands of dollars over the life of a loan.

I can’t guarantee anyone that I have the lowest rate on the planet, but I know that I am lower than most.

Another problem is that rates really can change quickly, AND when people are calling around shopping, the mortgage person knows this, so they often underquote their rate and fee, knowing that the person is just shopping anyway. They lie to sound like they have the lowest rate & fees.

Then the borrower asks for a “Good Faith Estimate”, which can be just more lies, but on paper.
All the experts say ALWAYS ask for a Good Faith Estimate so you can compare costs and fees, blah, blah, blah.

At the top of every good faith estimate it states:
“Information provided below reflects estimates of the charges you are likely to incur, the fees listed are estimates-actual charges may be more or less”

This is the govt helping you when comparing mortgages. How can you compare with this foolishness ??

Calling around for rates often leads to the biggest liar. Amazing how things can change after you decide to work with a liar.

As mentioned, in my opinion, there is no reason on a REFI why a borrower cannot be quoted guaranteed costs/fees to get the best rate available at the time they lock. Proration of interest or taxes can change, but the fees/costs shouldn’t…
**Changing a loan amount can change some fees

If it’s a purchase, you are at the mercy of the seller’s choice of escrow with their garbage fees. Doc prep, loan tie in, courier, email doc fee etc.

In a mortgage broker transaction, it will always be on the closing statement signed at docs if the mortgage originator is getting any type of commission. It is never in the column of debits or credits, it is off to the left and marked (poc)
which means “paid outside closing” IF There is any commissions, fees, rebates, or any other compensation paid outside of escrow, it is illegal, with serious fines/penalties.

If you are getting a loan from a bank or direct lender, they are not obligated to show the (poc)
which leads many people to believe that they got the best rate without paying a fee, which isn’t true, it’s just buried in the rate, without being disclosed. You get a higher payment.

I don’t care if people shop. I can’t do anything about it. Some mortgage people scare borrowers by telling tham not to let others run their credit, it will lower their score. That is not exactly true, but keeps many people from shopping.

The fact is that most borrower’s aren’t going to get the best rate that they qualify for on the day the lock because of the way they shop.

Personally, I credit the borrower with any commission back from the lender, and my clients understand this from the beginning so there shouldn’t be any confusion. I give them the choice.

It’s more important to shop for the PERSON to do your loan than to shop for the rate, but sadly very few people understand this….HLS

[HLS]

Ray..
If it were a perfect “honest” world you are exactly right…

Different lenders have different “par” rates.
I have a way to possibly pull a higher credit score than somebody else at the exact same time.
Either of these things can make a difference of tens of thousands of dollars over the life of a loan.

I can’t guarantee anyone that I have the lowest rate on the planet, but I know that I am lower than most.

Another problem is that rates really can change quickly, AND when people are calling around shopping, the mortgage person knows this, so they often underquote their rate and fee, knowing that the person is just shopping anyway. They lie to sound like they have the lowest rate & fees.

Then the borrower asks for a “Good Faith Estimate”, which can be just more lies, but on paper.
All the experts say ALWAYS ask for a Good Faith Estimate so you can compare costs and fees, blah, blah, blah.

At the top of every good faith estimate it states:
“Information provided below reflects estimates of the charges you are likely to incur, the fees listed are estimates-actual charges may be more or less”

This is the govt helping you when comparing mortgages. How can you compare with this foolishness ??

Calling around for rates often leads to the biggest liar. Amazing how things can change after you decide to work with a liar.

As mentioned, in my opinion, there is no reason on a REFI why a borrower cannot be quoted guaranteed costs/fees to get the best rate available at the time they lock. Proration of interest or taxes can change, but the fees/costs shouldn’t…
**Changing a loan amount can change some fees

If it’s a purchase, you are at the mercy of the seller’s choice of escrow with their garbage fees. Doc prep, loan tie in, courier, email doc fee etc.

In a mortgage broker transaction, it will always be on the closing statement signed at docs if the mortgage originator is getting any type of commission. It is never in the column of debits or credits, it is off to the left and marked (poc)
which means “paid outside closing” IF There is any commissions, fees, rebates, or any other compensation paid outside of escrow, it is illegal, with serious fines/penalties.

If you are getting a loan from a bank or direct lender, they are not obligated to show the (poc)
which leads many people to believe that they got the best rate without paying a fee, which isn’t true, it’s just buried in the rate, without being disclosed. You get a higher payment.

I don’t care if people shop. I can’t do anything about it. Some mortgage people scare borrowers by telling tham not to let others run their credit, it will lower their score. That is not exactly true, but keeps many people from shopping.

The fact is that most borrower’s aren’t going to get the best rate that they qualify for on the day the lock because of the way they shop.

Personally, I credit the borrower with any commission back from the lender, and my clients understand this from the beginning so there shouldn’t be any confusion. I give them the choice.

It’s more important to shop for the PERSON to do your loan than to shop for the rate, but sadly very few people understand this….HLS

[HLS]

Ray..
If it were a perfect “honest” world you are exactly right…

Different lenders have different “par” rates.
I have a way to possibly pull a higher credit score than somebody else at the exact same time.
Either of these things can make a difference of tens of thousands of dollars over the life of a loan.

I can’t guarantee anyone that I have the lowest rate on the planet, but I know that I am lower than most.

Another problem is that rates really can change quickly, AND when people are calling around shopping, the mortgage person knows this, so they often underquote their rate and fee, knowing that the person is just shopping anyway. They lie to sound like they have the lowest rate & fees.

Then the borrower asks for a “Good Faith Estimate”, which can be just more lies, but on paper.
All the experts say ALWAYS ask for a Good Faith Estimate so you can compare costs and fees, blah, blah, blah.

At the top of every good faith estimate it states:
“Information provided below reflects estimates of the charges you are likely to incur, the fees listed are estimates-actual charges may be more or less”

This is the govt helping you when comparing mortgages. How can you compare with this foolishness ??

Calling around for rates often leads to the biggest liar. Amazing how things can change after you decide to work with a liar.

As mentioned, in my opinion, there is no reason on a REFI why a borrower cannot be quoted guaranteed costs/fees to get the best rate available at the time they lock. Proration of interest or taxes can change, but the fees/costs shouldn’t…
**Changing a loan amount can change some fees

If it’s a purchase, you are at the mercy of the seller’s choice of escrow with their garbage fees. Doc prep, loan tie in, courier, email doc fee etc.

In a mortgage broker transaction, it will always be on the closing statement signed at docs if the mortgage originator is getting any type of commission. It is never in the column of debits or credits, it is off to the left and marked (poc)
which means “paid outside closing” IF There is any commissions, fees, rebates, or any other compensation paid outside of escrow, it is illegal, with serious fines/penalties.

If you are getting a loan from a bank or direct lender, they are not obligated to show the (poc)
which leads many people to believe that they got the best rate without paying a fee, which isn’t true, it’s just buried in the rate, without being disclosed. You get a higher payment.

I don’t care if people shop. I can’t do anything about it. Some mortgage people scare borrowers by telling tham not to let others run their credit, it will lower their score. That is not exactly true, but keeps many people from shopping.

The fact is that most borrower’s aren’t going to get the best rate that they qualify for on the day the lock because of the way they shop.

Personally, I credit the borrower with any commission back from the lender, and my clients understand this from the beginning so there shouldn’t be any confusion. I give them the choice.

It’s more important to shop for the PERSON to do your loan than to shop for the rate, but sadly very few people understand this….HLS

[HLS]

Ray..
If it were a perfect “honest” world you are exactly right…

Different lenders have different “par” rates.
I have a way to possibly pull a higher credit score than somebody else at the exact same time.
Either of these things can make a difference of tens of thousands of dollars over the life of a loan.

I can’t guarantee anyone that I have the lowest rate on the planet, but I know that I am lower than most.

Another problem is that rates really can change quickly, AND when people are calling around shopping, the mortgage person knows this, so they often underquote their rate and fee, knowing that the person is just shopping anyway. They lie to sound like they have the lowest rate & fees.

Then the borrower asks for a “Good Faith Estimate”, which can be just more lies, but on paper.
All the experts say ALWAYS ask for a Good Faith Estimate so you can compare costs and fees, blah, blah, blah.

At the top of every good faith estimate it states:
“Information provided below reflects estimates of the charges you are likely to incur, the fees listed are estimates-actual charges may be more or less”

This is the govt helping you when comparing mortgages. How can you compare with this foolishness ??

Calling around for rates often leads to the biggest liar. Amazing how things can change after you decide to work with a liar.

As mentioned, in my opinion, there is no reason on a REFI why a borrower cannot be quoted guaranteed costs/fees to get the best rate available at the time they lock. Proration of interest or taxes can change, but the fees/costs shouldn’t…
**Changing a loan amount can change some fees

If it’s a purchase, you are at the mercy of the seller’s choice of escrow with their garbage fees. Doc prep, loan tie in, courier, email doc fee etc.

In a mortgage broker transaction, it will always be on the closing statement signed at docs if the mortgage originator is getting any type of commission. It is never in the column of debits or credits, it is off to the left and marked (poc)
which means “paid outside closing” IF There is any commissions, fees, rebates, or any other compensation paid outside of escrow, it is illegal, with serious fines/penalties.

If you are getting a loan from a bank or direct lender, they are not obligated to show the (poc)
which leads many people to believe that they got the best rate without paying a fee, which isn’t true, it’s just buried in the rate, without being disclosed. You get a higher payment.

I don’t care if people shop. I can’t do anything about it. Some mortgage people scare borrowers by telling tham not to let others run their credit, it will lower their score. That is not exactly true, but keeps many people from shopping.

The fact is that most borrower’s aren’t going to get the best rate that they qualify for on the day the lock because of the way they shop.

Personally, I credit the borrower with any commission back from the lender, and my clients understand this from the beginning so there shouldn’t be any confusion. I give them the choice.

It’s more important to shop for the PERSON to do your loan than to shop for the rate, but sadly very few people understand this….HLS

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