TARP now estimated to cost $356 billion

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Patientrenter: This goes back to our discussions regarding honesty and fairness. While I agree that both are very important and especially in light of the massive problems we’re facing, I also think that there is an “Oh, Shit!” aspect to this situation and the senior members of the Administration are keenly aware of it.

Rough calculations put the potential cost of fixing this around $20Trn. The USG does not have anywhere near the resources to take that on, hence programs like PPIP that are looking to create monetary velocity and private partnerships and all with the recognition that this problem is too deep and wide to be handled organically. If Obama, Bernanke and the senior Treasury people were to come clean on how big this problem truly is, I think the wheels would come off the wagon in really short order.

So, they’re pursuing their version of “small ball”, using all available tools (although not as effectively as they could, in my opinion) and doing their best to impart confidence (hence Bernanke’s appearance on “60 Minutes” and Obama’s on Leno) and injecting as much liquidity as possible through the various Fed/Treasury programs.

[patientrenter]

Fair enough, davelj and Allan. I understand both your points.

Nevertheless, my hackles are raised when I see BB, Larry S, and others lying to me, relying on my being very stupid. My gene for favoring honesty and fairness over “maximizing the pie” must be pretty active, because I still feel deeply offended even though I realize what they are really doing is relying on most of the rest of the population being very stupid. I am unrealistic, I suppose, and still think it should be possible for us to have leaders who treat the general public as being slightly smarter than it is, instead of the reverse.

I also believe that there really is an effort to give massive breaks to lots of people who don’t deserve them, going well beyond the nibbling-at-the-edge billions in profits extracted from the RTC etc. in the last bank crisis. Many tens of millions of people who benefited from (what I consider are temporary and probably unsustainable) increases in asset prices over the last 20-30 years are loath to give up the gains, and will use any “save our economy”, or other, excuse to advance their personal interests.

Well, I am just perpetuating an unverifiable opinion here, so I will rest my case with that. Thanks for the interesting discussion. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday!

[patientrenter]

Fair enough, davelj and Allan. I understand both your points.

Nevertheless, my hackles are raised when I see BB, Larry S, and others lying to me, relying on my being very stupid. My gene for favoring honesty and fairness over “maximizing the pie” must be pretty active, because I still feel deeply offended even though I realize what they are really doing is relying on most of the rest of the population being very stupid. I am unrealistic, I suppose, and still think it should be possible for us to have leaders who treat the general public as being slightly smarter than it is, instead of the reverse.

I also believe that there really is an effort to give massive breaks to lots of people who don’t deserve them, going well beyond the nibbling-at-the-edge billions in profits extracted from the RTC etc. in the last bank crisis. Many tens of millions of people who benefited from (what I consider are temporary and probably unsustainable) increases in asset prices over the last 20-30 years are loath to give up the gains, and will use any “save our economy”, or other, excuse to advance their personal interests.

Well, I am just perpetuating an unverifiable opinion here, so I will rest my case with that. Thanks for the interesting discussion. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday!

[patientrenter]

Fair enough, davelj and Allan. I understand both your points.

Nevertheless, my hackles are raised when I see BB, Larry S, and others lying to me, relying on my being very stupid. My gene for favoring honesty and fairness over “maximizing the pie” must be pretty active, because I still feel deeply offended even though I realize what they are really doing is relying on most of the rest of the population being very stupid. I am unrealistic, I suppose, and still think it should be possible for us to have leaders who treat the general public as being slightly smarter than it is, instead of the reverse.

I also believe that there really is an effort to give massive breaks to lots of people who don’t deserve them, going well beyond the nibbling-at-the-edge billions in profits extracted from the RTC etc. in the last bank crisis. Many tens of millions of people who benefited from (what I consider are temporary and probably unsustainable) increases in asset prices over the last 20-30 years are loath to give up the gains, and will use any “save our economy”, or other, excuse to advance their personal interests.

Well, I am just perpetuating an unverifiable opinion here, so I will rest my case with that. Thanks for the interesting discussion. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday!

[patientrenter]

Fair enough, davelj and Allan. I understand both your points.

Nevertheless, my hackles are raised when I see BB, Larry S, and others lying to me, relying on my being very stupid. My gene for favoring honesty and fairness over “maximizing the pie” must be pretty active, because I still feel deeply offended even though I realize what they are really doing is relying on most of the rest of the population being very stupid. I am unrealistic, I suppose, and still think it should be possible for us to have leaders who treat the general public as being slightly smarter than it is, instead of the reverse.

I also believe that there really is an effort to give massive breaks to lots of people who don’t deserve them, going well beyond the nibbling-at-the-edge billions in profits extracted from the RTC etc. in the last bank crisis. Many tens of millions of people who benefited from (what I consider are temporary and probably unsustainable) increases in asset prices over the last 20-30 years are loath to give up the gains, and will use any “save our economy”, or other, excuse to advance their personal interests.

Well, I am just perpetuating an unverifiable opinion here, so I will rest my case with that. Thanks for the interesting discussion. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday!

[patientrenter]

Fair enough, davelj and Allan. I understand both your points.

Nevertheless, my hackles are raised when I see BB, Larry S, and others lying to me, relying on my being very stupid. My gene for favoring honesty and fairness over “maximizing the pie” must be pretty active, because I still feel deeply offended even though I realize what they are really doing is relying on most of the rest of the population being very stupid. I am unrealistic, I suppose, and still think it should be possible for us to have leaders who treat the general public as being slightly smarter than it is, instead of the reverse.

I also believe that there really is an effort to give massive breaks to lots of people who don’t deserve them, going well beyond the nibbling-at-the-edge billions in profits extracted from the RTC etc. in the last bank crisis. Many tens of millions of people who benefited from (what I consider are temporary and probably unsustainable) increases in asset prices over the last 20-30 years are loath to give up the gains, and will use any “save our economy”, or other, excuse to advance their personal interests.

Well, I am just perpetuating an unverifiable opinion here, so I will rest my case with that. Thanks for the interesting discussion. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday!

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Patientrenter: In response to your anger regarding how stupid the government thinks you are, I have two words: Gay Marriage.

Use of wedge issues like gay marriage shows clearly that the government (and their co-conspirators, the MSM) think you are stupid and it’s in their best interest to keep you distracted and uninformed.

Look at the dearth of good investigative journalism. Recent events should have triggered a landslide of stories about malfeasance, cronyism, oligarchic dealings and outright theft. We haven’t seen events like this since Watergate. Instead, we’re getting our news from Matt Drudge, HuffPost and Glenn Beck.

I’ve seen about a half dozen good, well-researched and investigated stories and the irony is that only one of them was from a financial journal. I’ve seen really good reporting from “Rolling Stone” and “Vanity Fair”, along with “The Atlantic”, but I would think the WSJ, FT and NYTimes would be all over this. Nope.

I remember a PoliSci professor I had correcting a student who was asserting that we were the best informed nation in the world. “Nope”, said the PoliSci professor, “We’re the most selectively informed nation in the world”.

There is a huge chasm between Information and Knowledge and the gubmint and MSM are counting on the average person’s inability to separate the signal from the noise. We are truly living in a post fact world.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Patientrenter: In response to your anger regarding how stupid the government thinks you are, I have two words: Gay Marriage.

Use of wedge issues like gay marriage shows clearly that the government (and their co-conspirators, the MSM) think you are stupid and it’s in their best interest to keep you distracted and uninformed.

Look at the dearth of good investigative journalism. Recent events should have triggered a landslide of stories about malfeasance, cronyism, oligarchic dealings and outright theft. We haven’t seen events like this since Watergate. Instead, we’re getting our news from Matt Drudge, HuffPost and Glenn Beck.

I’ve seen about a half dozen good, well-researched and investigated stories and the irony is that only one of them was from a financial journal. I’ve seen really good reporting from “Rolling Stone” and “Vanity Fair”, along with “The Atlantic”, but I would think the WSJ, FT and NYTimes would be all over this. Nope.

I remember a PoliSci professor I had correcting a student who was asserting that we were the best informed nation in the world. “Nope”, said the PoliSci professor, “We’re the most selectively informed nation in the world”.

There is a huge chasm between Information and Knowledge and the gubmint and MSM are counting on the average person’s inability to separate the signal from the noise. We are truly living in a post fact world.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Patientrenter: In response to your anger regarding how stupid the government thinks you are, I have two words: Gay Marriage.

Use of wedge issues like gay marriage shows clearly that the government (and their co-conspirators, the MSM) think you are stupid and it’s in their best interest to keep you distracted and uninformed.

Look at the dearth of good investigative journalism. Recent events should have triggered a landslide of stories about malfeasance, cronyism, oligarchic dealings and outright theft. We haven’t seen events like this since Watergate. Instead, we’re getting our news from Matt Drudge, HuffPost and Glenn Beck.

I’ve seen about a half dozen good, well-researched and investigated stories and the irony is that only one of them was from a financial journal. I’ve seen really good reporting from “Rolling Stone” and “Vanity Fair”, along with “The Atlantic”, but I would think the WSJ, FT and NYTimes would be all over this. Nope.

I remember a PoliSci professor I had correcting a student who was asserting that we were the best informed nation in the world. “Nope”, said the PoliSci professor, “We’re the most selectively informed nation in the world”.

There is a huge chasm between Information and Knowledge and the gubmint and MSM are counting on the average person’s inability to separate the signal from the noise. We are truly living in a post fact world.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Patientrenter: In response to your anger regarding how stupid the government thinks you are, I have two words: Gay Marriage.

Use of wedge issues like gay marriage shows clearly that the government (and their co-conspirators, the MSM) think you are stupid and it’s in their best interest to keep you distracted and uninformed.

Look at the dearth of good investigative journalism. Recent events should have triggered a landslide of stories about malfeasance, cronyism, oligarchic dealings and outright theft. We haven’t seen events like this since Watergate. Instead, we’re getting our news from Matt Drudge, HuffPost and Glenn Beck.

I’ve seen about a half dozen good, well-researched and investigated stories and the irony is that only one of them was from a financial journal. I’ve seen really good reporting from “Rolling Stone” and “Vanity Fair”, along with “The Atlantic”, but I would think the WSJ, FT and NYTimes would be all over this. Nope.

I remember a PoliSci professor I had correcting a student who was asserting that we were the best informed nation in the world. “Nope”, said the PoliSci professor, “We’re the most selectively informed nation in the world”.

There is a huge chasm between Information and Knowledge and the gubmint and MSM are counting on the average person’s inability to separate the signal from the noise. We are truly living in a post fact world.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Patientrenter: In response to your anger regarding how stupid the government thinks you are, I have two words: Gay Marriage.

Use of wedge issues like gay marriage shows clearly that the government (and their co-conspirators, the MSM) think you are stupid and it’s in their best interest to keep you distracted and uninformed.

Look at the dearth of good investigative journalism. Recent events should have triggered a landslide of stories about malfeasance, cronyism, oligarchic dealings and outright theft. We haven’t seen events like this since Watergate. Instead, we’re getting our news from Matt Drudge, HuffPost and Glenn Beck.

I’ve seen about a half dozen good, well-researched and investigated stories and the irony is that only one of them was from a financial journal. I’ve seen really good reporting from “Rolling Stone” and “Vanity Fair”, along with “The Atlantic”, but I would think the WSJ, FT and NYTimes would be all over this. Nope.

I remember a PoliSci professor I had correcting a student who was asserting that we were the best informed nation in the world. “Nope”, said the PoliSci professor, “We’re the most selectively informed nation in the world”.

There is a huge chasm between Information and Knowledge and the gubmint and MSM are counting on the average person’s inability to separate the signal from the noise. We are truly living in a post fact world.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Rough calculations put the potential cost of fixing this around $20Trn. The USG does not have anywhere near the resources to take that on, hence programs like PPIP that are looking to create monetary velocity and private partnerships and all with the recognition that this problem is too deep and wide to be handled organically. If Obama, Bernanke and the senior Treasury people were to come clean on how big this problem truly is, I think the wheels would come off the wagon in really short order.
[/quote]

Do you think there is anyone of relevance out there who doesn’t understand the scope of the problem? Jim Rogers has been on Bloomberg TV two dozen times saying that all the banks are insolvent. There are 15 thousand blogs out there that say the same thing. Just today, Zero Hedge came out with an article where Andy Beal predicts that 4,000 banks would be insolvent if they had to mark their book to market.

http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/04/exposing-utter-hypocrisy-of-fdic-and.html

Do you think there is anyone out there with over $50K invested in the market who doesn’t know this stuff?

The government isn’t talking about what they are doing because it’s easier to loot that way. Madoff got away with running a Ponzi scheme for 25 years and now Geithner, Obama, and the financial oligarchy think they can do the same.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Rough calculations put the potential cost of fixing this around $20Trn. The USG does not have anywhere near the resources to take that on, hence programs like PPIP that are looking to create monetary velocity and private partnerships and all with the recognition that this problem is too deep and wide to be handled organically. If Obama, Bernanke and the senior Treasury people were to come clean on how big this problem truly is, I think the wheels would come off the wagon in really short order.
[/quote]

Do you think there is anyone of relevance out there who doesn’t understand the scope of the problem? Jim Rogers has been on Bloomberg TV two dozen times saying that all the banks are insolvent. There are 15 thousand blogs out there that say the same thing. Just today, Zero Hedge came out with an article where Andy Beal predicts that 4,000 banks would be insolvent if they had to mark their book to market.

http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/04/exposing-utter-hypocrisy-of-fdic-and.html

Do you think there is anyone out there with over $50K invested in the market who doesn’t know this stuff?

The government isn’t talking about what they are doing because it’s easier to loot that way. Madoff got away with running a Ponzi scheme for 25 years and now Geithner, Obama, and the financial oligarchy think they can do the same.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Rough calculations put the potential cost of fixing this around $20Trn. The USG does not have anywhere near the resources to take that on, hence programs like PPIP that are looking to create monetary velocity and private partnerships and all with the recognition that this problem is too deep and wide to be handled organically. If Obama, Bernanke and the senior Treasury people were to come clean on how big this problem truly is, I think the wheels would come off the wagon in really short order.
[/quote]

Do you think there is anyone of relevance out there who doesn’t understand the scope of the problem? Jim Rogers has been on Bloomberg TV two dozen times saying that all the banks are insolvent. There are 15 thousand blogs out there that say the same thing. Just today, Zero Hedge came out with an article where Andy Beal predicts that 4,000 banks would be insolvent if they had to mark their book to market.

http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/04/exposing-utter-hypocrisy-of-fdic-and.html

Do you think there is anyone out there with over $50K invested in the market who doesn’t know this stuff?

The government isn’t talking about what they are doing because it’s easier to loot that way. Madoff got away with running a Ponzi scheme for 25 years and now Geithner, Obama, and the financial oligarchy think they can do the same.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Rough calculations put the potential cost of fixing this around $20Trn. The USG does not have anywhere near the resources to take that on, hence programs like PPIP that are looking to create monetary velocity and private partnerships and all with the recognition that this problem is too deep and wide to be handled organically. If Obama, Bernanke and the senior Treasury people were to come clean on how big this problem truly is, I think the wheels would come off the wagon in really short order.
[/quote]

Do you think there is anyone of relevance out there who doesn’t understand the scope of the problem? Jim Rogers has been on Bloomberg TV two dozen times saying that all the banks are insolvent. There are 15 thousand blogs out there that say the same thing. Just today, Zero Hedge came out with an article where Andy Beal predicts that 4,000 banks would be insolvent if they had to mark their book to market.

http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/04/exposing-utter-hypocrisy-of-fdic-and.html

Do you think there is anyone out there with over $50K invested in the market who doesn’t know this stuff?

The government isn’t talking about what they are doing because it’s easier to loot that way. Madoff got away with running a Ponzi scheme for 25 years and now Geithner, Obama, and the financial oligarchy think they can do the same.

[Author]

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