Should I build or buy? (NC inland)

[permabear]

So I’m struggling with a dilemma that I’m hoping Piggs can help with.

My wife and I are trying to decide whether to build or buy a home for our family of 4 (two young kids). We have around $200k down and could pay approx $5-6k/month for mortgage+taxes+HOA.

We’re interested in spending around $1.1-1.2M to for a 1-story, 3500+ sq ft home, on around 1/3-1/2 acre just to provide some elbow room. We’ve been looking in Black Mountain, Scripps, and Poway, since all are nice areas with good schools. This home is a bit large but could work:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/17145-Castello-Cir-92127/home/6493357

The only thing is we’re very design-savvy people, interested in modern architecture. We’ve had two generic Spanish tract homes and are generally over them. We’re looking for somewhere to settle down for 15-20 years, and we’d really like to “get it right” this time.

I’ve run the numbers and we could build a place of approx 3500 sq ft for $1.2M. So why not just do it? Well the question of resale is a big one. Many of the areas with land in the $400k range – Santaluz, Poway, etc – all boast homes of 5000+ sq ft. I’m concerned building a home of 3500 sq ft in those areas would make resale difficult. Sure, we’d like not to move for 15+ years, but if we have to – job, family, etc – I don’t want to be underwater.

Thoughts?

[bearishgurl]

[quote-permabear]. . . The only thing is we’re very design-savvy people, interested in modern architecture. . .[/quote]

permabear, I don’t know if you can get a construction loan based on the 80% – 85% LTV scenario you describe here.

Assuming you can, if you build, you will be subject to building on already subdivided lots which will be situated in a community facilities district. You will have to pay the MR all during the time it takes you for the permitting and building process (1-3 yrs), even while you are living somewhere else. The MR will likely be greater than $5K per year and there may even be high monthly HOA dues connected to this as well, whether or not you have even broken ground and/or are even using the HOA’s facilities.

If you buy your land inland rural (ex. Lilac Rd or Valley Center surrounds), it will not be situated in a CFD but you will have to, more likely than not, bring in or place all utils there yourself and bring water to your property. This could SIGNIFICANTLY add to the cost of your $1.2M estimate.

May I suggest you contact owners (in your selected areas) of properties which are of authentic modern architecture and see if they will sell? Beginnning approximately 2022-2023, these mid-century properties will be eligible for Mills Act property tax treatment if they have a significant local history or designer. By that time, you will be able to save =>$10K per year in property taxes after successful processing of your Mills Act application by the county.

See: http://www.modernsandiego.com/
Click “ARCHITECTURE” and then “Neighborhood”

If you can find a property with authentic modern architecture that is a little shopworn or even needs a bit of structural work (due to subsidence) that you have the know-how and skills to fix, then this would be your best investment, IMO. These properties will not lie within a CFD.

You may be already familiar with these charges, but the Metropolitan Water District “kickback” is currently about $7,500 – $8,000 for a new dwelling, not to mention the local water authority fee for laying your meter, that is, after all your pipe is laid to city or county and CWA specifications.

IMO, it’s a much better investment to rehab an existing property where someone else has already brought in (and permitted) all the utils long ago (at a much cheaper cost). This way your property’s (interior and exterior) environment cannot be duplicated by anyone and it therefore will somewhat insulate you from the vagaries of “comparable recent sales” which will help to keep your property’s value from intermittently going “underwater” in CA’s “boom/bust” RE cycles.

After you successfully obtain a Mills Act designation, it follows the property and thus is worth real substantial money upon sale, especially if its value is in the over $1M category.

See these links for examples of currently listed properties near your selected area:

Cavernistic: unsure if would qualify for Mills Act – more research needed
http://www.merceryork.com/Vista3.html

not quite big enough and more remote:
http://www.merceryork.com/WarnerSprings1.html

not quite big enough but awesome location:
http://www.merceryork.com/DelMar21.html

I don’t think you would be allowed to change the original footprint of the dwelling under the rules of acceptance of the Mills Act.

Regardless of Mills Act qualification, locating and purchasing a suitable “mid-century modern” would be much faster and cheaper than building, IMO.

[bearishgurl]

[quote-permabear]. . . The only thing is we’re very design-savvy people, interested in modern architecture. . .[/quote]

permabear, I don’t know if you can get a construction loan based on the 80% – 85% LTV scenario you describe here.

Assuming you can, if you build, you will be subject to building on already subdivided lots which will be situated in a community facilities district. You will have to pay the MR all during the time it takes you for the permitting and building process (1-3 yrs), even while you are living somewhere else. The MR will likely be greater than $5K per year and there may even be high monthly HOA dues connected to this as well, whether or not you have even broken ground and/or are even using the HOA’s facilities.

If you buy your land inland rural (ex. Lilac Rd or Valley Center surrounds), it will not be situated in a CFD but you will have to, more likely than not, bring in or place all utils there yourself and bring water to your property. This could SIGNIFICANTLY add to the cost of your $1.2M estimate.

May I suggest you contact owners (in your selected areas) of properties which are of authentic modern architecture and see if they will sell? Beginnning approximately 2022-2023, these mid-century properties will be eligible for Mills Act property tax treatment if they have a significant local history or designer. By that time, you will be able to save =>$10K per year in property taxes after successful processing of your Mills Act application by the county.

See: http://www.modernsandiego.com/
Click “ARCHITECTURE” and then “Neighborhood”

If you can find a property with authentic modern architecture that is a little shopworn or even needs a bit of structural work (due to subsidence) that you have the know-how and skills to fix, then this would be your best investment, IMO. These properties will not lie within a CFD.

You may be already familiar with these charges, but the Metropolitan Water District “kickback” is currently about $7,500 – $8,000 for a new dwelling, not to mention the local water authority fee for laying your meter, that is, after all your pipe is laid to city or county and CWA specifications.

IMO, it’s a much better investment to rehab an existing property where someone else has already brought in (and permitted) all the utils long ago (at a much cheaper cost). This way your property’s (interior and exterior) environment cannot be duplicated by anyone and it therefore will somewhat insulate you from the vagaries of “comparable recent sales” which will help to keep your property’s value from intermittently going “underwater” in CA’s “boom/bust” RE cycles.

After you successfully obtain a Mills Act designation, it follows the property and thus is worth real substantial money upon sale, especially if its value is in the over $1M category.

See these links for examples of currently listed properties near your selected area:

Cavernistic: unsure if would qualify for Mills Act – more research needed
http://www.merceryork.com/Vista3.html

not quite big enough and more remote:
http://www.merceryork.com/WarnerSprings1.html

not quite big enough but awesome location:
http://www.merceryork.com/DelMar21.html

I don’t think you would be allowed to change the original footprint of the dwelling under the rules of acceptance of the Mills Act.

Regardless of Mills Act qualification, locating and purchasing a suitable “mid-century modern” would be much faster and cheaper than building, IMO.

[bearishgurl]

[quote-permabear]. . . The only thing is we’re very design-savvy people, interested in modern architecture. . .[/quote]

permabear, I don’t know if you can get a construction loan based on the 80% – 85% LTV scenario you describe here.

Assuming you can, if you build, you will be subject to building on already subdivided lots which will be situated in a community facilities district. You will have to pay the MR all during the time it takes you for the permitting and building process (1-3 yrs), even while you are living somewhere else. The MR will likely be greater than $5K per year and there may even be high monthly HOA dues connected to this as well, whether or not you have even broken ground and/or are even using the HOA’s facilities.

If you buy your land inland rural (ex. Lilac Rd or Valley Center surrounds), it will not be situated in a CFD but you will have to, more likely than not, bring in or place all utils there yourself and bring water to your property. This could SIGNIFICANTLY add to the cost of your $1.2M estimate.

May I suggest you contact owners (in your selected areas) of properties which are of authentic modern architecture and see if they will sell? Beginnning approximately 2022-2023, these mid-century properties will be eligible for Mills Act property tax treatment if they have a significant local history or designer. By that time, you will be able to save =>$10K per year in property taxes after successful processing of your Mills Act application by the county.

See: http://www.modernsandiego.com/
Click “ARCHITECTURE” and then “Neighborhood”

If you can find a property with authentic modern architecture that is a little shopworn or even needs a bit of structural work (due to subsidence) that you have the know-how and skills to fix, then this would be your best investment, IMO. These properties will not lie within a CFD.

You may be already familiar with these charges, but the Metropolitan Water District “kickback” is currently about $7,500 – $8,000 for a new dwelling, not to mention the local water authority fee for laying your meter, that is, after all your pipe is laid to city or county and CWA specifications.

IMO, it’s a much better investment to rehab an existing property where someone else has already brought in (and permitted) all the utils long ago (at a much cheaper cost). This way your property’s (interior and exterior) environment cannot be duplicated by anyone and it therefore will somewhat insulate you from the vagaries of “comparable recent sales” which will help to keep your property’s value from intermittently going “underwater” in CA’s “boom/bust” RE cycles.

After you successfully obtain a Mills Act designation, it follows the property and thus is worth real substantial money upon sale, especially if its value is in the over $1M category.

See these links for examples of currently listed properties near your selected area:

Cavernistic: unsure if would qualify for Mills Act – more research needed
http://www.merceryork.com/Vista3.html

not quite big enough and more remote:
http://www.merceryork.com/WarnerSprings1.html

not quite big enough but awesome location:
http://www.merceryork.com/DelMar21.html

I don’t think you would be allowed to change the original footprint of the dwelling under the rules of acceptance of the Mills Act.

Regardless of Mills Act qualification, locating and purchasing a suitable “mid-century modern” would be much faster and cheaper than building, IMO.

[bearishgurl]

[quote-permabear]. . . The only thing is we’re very design-savvy people, interested in modern architecture. . .[/quote]

permabear, I don’t know if you can get a construction loan based on the 80% – 85% LTV scenario you describe here.

Assuming you can, if you build, you will be subject to building on already subdivided lots which will be situated in a community facilities district. You will have to pay the MR all during the time it takes you for the permitting and building process (1-3 yrs), even while you are living somewhere else. The MR will likely be greater than $5K per year and there may even be high monthly HOA dues connected to this as well, whether or not you have even broken ground and/or are even using the HOA’s facilities.

If you buy your land inland rural (ex. Lilac Rd or Valley Center surrounds), it will not be situated in a CFD but you will have to, more likely than not, bring in or place all utils there yourself and bring water to your property. This could SIGNIFICANTLY add to the cost of your $1.2M estimate.

May I suggest you contact owners (in your selected areas) of properties which are of authentic modern architecture and see if they will sell? Beginnning approximately 2022-2023, these mid-century properties will be eligible for Mills Act property tax treatment if they have a significant local history or designer. By that time, you will be able to save =>$10K per year in property taxes after successful processing of your Mills Act application by the county.

See: http://www.modernsandiego.com/
Click “ARCHITECTURE” and then “Neighborhood”

If you can find a property with authentic modern architecture that is a little shopworn or even needs a bit of structural work (due to subsidence) that you have the know-how and skills to fix, then this would be your best investment, IMO. These properties will not lie within a CFD.

You may be already familiar with these charges, but the Metropolitan Water District “kickback” is currently about $7,500 – $8,000 for a new dwelling, not to mention the local water authority fee for laying your meter, that is, after all your pipe is laid to city or county and CWA specifications.

IMO, it’s a much better investment to rehab an existing property where someone else has already brought in (and permitted) all the utils long ago (at a much cheaper cost). This way your property’s (interior and exterior) environment cannot be duplicated by anyone and it therefore will somewhat insulate you from the vagaries of “comparable recent sales” which will help to keep your property’s value from intermittently going “underwater” in CA’s “boom/bust” RE cycles.

After you successfully obtain a Mills Act designation, it follows the property and thus is worth real substantial money upon sale, especially if its value is in the over $1M category.

See these links for examples of currently listed properties near your selected area:

Cavernistic: unsure if would qualify for Mills Act – more research needed
http://www.merceryork.com/Vista3.html

not quite big enough and more remote:
http://www.merceryork.com/WarnerSprings1.html

not quite big enough but awesome location:
http://www.merceryork.com/DelMar21.html

I don’t think you would be allowed to change the original footprint of the dwelling under the rules of acceptance of the Mills Act.

Regardless of Mills Act qualification, locating and purchasing a suitable “mid-century modern” would be much faster and cheaper than building, IMO.

[bearishgurl]

[quote-permabear]. . . The only thing is we’re very design-savvy people, interested in modern architecture. . .[/quote]

permabear, I don’t know if you can get a construction loan based on the 80% – 85% LTV scenario you describe here.

Assuming you can, if you build, you will be subject to building on already subdivided lots which will be situated in a community facilities district. You will have to pay the MR all during the time it takes you for the permitting and building process (1-3 yrs), even while you are living somewhere else. The MR will likely be greater than $5K per year and there may even be high monthly HOA dues connected to this as well, whether or not you have even broken ground and/or are even using the HOA’s facilities.

If you buy your land inland rural (ex. Lilac Rd or Valley Center surrounds), it will not be situated in a CFD but you will have to, more likely than not, bring in or place all utils there yourself and bring water to your property. This could SIGNIFICANTLY add to the cost of your $1.2M estimate.

May I suggest you contact owners (in your selected areas) of properties which are of authentic modern architecture and see if they will sell? Beginnning approximately 2022-2023, these mid-century properties will be eligible for Mills Act property tax treatment if they have a significant local history or designer. By that time, you will be able to save =>$10K per year in property taxes after successful processing of your Mills Act application by the county.

See: http://www.modernsandiego.com/
Click “ARCHITECTURE” and then “Neighborhood”

If you can find a property with authentic modern architecture that is a little shopworn or even needs a bit of structural work (due to subsidence) that you have the know-how and skills to fix, then this would be your best investment, IMO. These properties will not lie within a CFD.

You may be already familiar with these charges, but the Metropolitan Water District “kickback” is currently about $7,500 – $8,000 for a new dwelling, not to mention the local water authority fee for laying your meter, that is, after all your pipe is laid to city or county and CWA specifications.

IMO, it’s a much better investment to rehab an existing property where someone else has already brought in (and permitted) all the utils long ago (at a much cheaper cost). This way your property’s (interior and exterior) environment cannot be duplicated by anyone and it therefore will somewhat insulate you from the vagaries of “comparable recent sales” which will help to keep your property’s value from intermittently going “underwater” in CA’s “boom/bust” RE cycles.

After you successfully obtain a Mills Act designation, it follows the property and thus is worth real substantial money upon sale, especially if its value is in the over $1M category.

See these links for examples of currently listed properties near your selected area:

Cavernistic: unsure if would qualify for Mills Act – more research needed
http://www.merceryork.com/Vista3.html

not quite big enough and more remote:
http://www.merceryork.com/WarnerSprings1.html

not quite big enough but awesome location:
http://www.merceryork.com/DelMar21.html

I don’t think you would be allowed to change the original footprint of the dwelling under the rules of acceptance of the Mills Act.

Regardless of Mills Act qualification, locating and purchasing a suitable “mid-century modern” would be much faster and cheaper than building, IMO.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=permabear]This home is a bit large but could work:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/17145…
[/quote]

permabear, your link (above) depicts a large contemporary (tract?) home with “Tuscan” or “Spanish” touches such as the large front entrance facade.

Is this what you consider of “modern” design or is what you REALLY want a “mid-century modern” but cannot find what you are looking for in the listings?

If you are looking for a property like your link, they abound . . . everywhere. I don’t see any reason to build, at all.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=permabear]This home is a bit large but could work:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/17145…
[/quote]

permabear, your link (above) depicts a large contemporary (tract?) home with “Tuscan” or “Spanish” touches such as the large front entrance facade.

Is this what you consider of “modern” design or is what you REALLY want a “mid-century modern” but cannot find what you are looking for in the listings?

If you are looking for a property like your link, they abound . . . everywhere. I don’t see any reason to build, at all.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=permabear]This home is a bit large but could work:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/17145…
[/quote]

permabear, your link (above) depicts a large contemporary (tract?) home with “Tuscan” or “Spanish” touches such as the large front entrance facade.

Is this what you consider of “modern” design or is what you REALLY want a “mid-century modern” but cannot find what you are looking for in the listings?

If you are looking for a property like your link, they abound . . . everywhere. I don’t see any reason to build, at all.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=permabear]This home is a bit large but could work:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/17145…
[/quote]

permabear, your link (above) depicts a large contemporary (tract?) home with “Tuscan” or “Spanish” touches such as the large front entrance facade.

Is this what you consider of “modern” design or is what you REALLY want a “mid-century modern” but cannot find what you are looking for in the listings?

If you are looking for a property like your link, they abound . . . everywhere. I don’t see any reason to build, at all.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=permabear]This home is a bit large but could work:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/17145…
[/quote]

permabear, your link (above) depicts a large contemporary (tract?) home with “Tuscan” or “Spanish” touches such as the large front entrance facade.

Is this what you consider of “modern” design or is what you REALLY want a “mid-century modern” but cannot find what you are looking for in the listings?

If you are looking for a property like your link, they abound . . . everywhere. I don’t see any reason to build, at all.

[bearishgurl]

Another idea, permabear, you could try to find a “knockdown property” or “gutter” in Poway for =<$400 on a large lot (sloping view lot is okay). If you leave all the utility meters attached to their studs, you can just do a "remodel" instead of new construction, thereby saving over $30K in permits. Then you can hire Norm Applebaum to design your your new "modern" dwelling. His services won't come cheap but he and his staff are pros dealing with bureaucrats! See: http://www.normapplebaum.com/portfolio.html

This will take nearly all or all of your projected budget, due to design and planning fees and the use of some highly upgraded materials.

Then you'll have your new "modern" dwelling that is all yours which will be less subject to the vagaries of "recent comparable sales."

[bearishgurl]

Another idea, permabear, you could try to find a “knockdown property” or “gutter” in Poway for =<$400 on a large lot (sloping view lot is okay). If you leave all the utility meters attached to their studs, you can just do a "remodel" instead of new construction, thereby saving over $30K in permits. Then you can hire Norm Applebaum to design your your new "modern" dwelling. His services won't come cheap but he and his staff are pros dealing with bureaucrats! See: http://www.normapplebaum.com/portfolio.html

This will take nearly all or all of your projected budget, due to design and planning fees and the use of some highly upgraded materials.

Then you'll have your new "modern" dwelling that is all yours which will be less subject to the vagaries of "recent comparable sales."

[bearishgurl]

Another idea, permabear, you could try to find a “knockdown property” or “gutter” in Poway for =<$400 on a large lot (sloping view lot is okay). If you leave all the utility meters attached to their studs, you can just do a "remodel" instead of new construction, thereby saving over $30K in permits. Then you can hire Norm Applebaum to design your your new "modern" dwelling. His services won't come cheap but he and his staff are pros dealing with bureaucrats! See: http://www.normapplebaum.com/portfolio.html

This will take nearly all or all of your projected budget, due to design and planning fees and the use of some highly upgraded materials.

Then you'll have your new "modern" dwelling that is all yours which will be less subject to the vagaries of "recent comparable sales."

[bearishgurl]

Another idea, permabear, you could try to find a “knockdown property” or “gutter” in Poway for =<$400 on a large lot (sloping view lot is okay). If you leave all the utility meters attached to their studs, you can just do a "remodel" instead of new construction, thereby saving over $30K in permits. Then you can hire Norm Applebaum to design your your new "modern" dwelling. His services won't come cheap but he and his staff are pros dealing with bureaucrats! See: http://www.normapplebaum.com/portfolio.html

This will take nearly all or all of your projected budget, due to design and planning fees and the use of some highly upgraded materials.

Then you'll have your new "modern" dwelling that is all yours which will be less subject to the vagaries of "recent comparable sales."

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