OT-Need to buy new desktop ASAP. What to buy?

[outtamojo]

Hmmm. What would Ron Paul do?

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]Don’t know about now, but they used to be built like a tank.[/quote]
Mac are no better than any other PC in term of the internals. Yes, the exterior are made out of metal instead of plastic, but internal, they’re the same parts. So, you pay for that shiny exterior. If you want bang for your bucks, Mac is not the way to go. All the computers today (Mac or PC) source their parts from the same supplier. I have a friend who used to work at WD (Western Digital) and he told me OEM with the highest volume gets the best components. So, that’s HP and Dell. I’m sure the other components manufacturers have the same policy.[/quote]

“Back in the day,” Macs had Motorola processors (made in the US) and all their components/peripherals were assigned in-line by the owner/user on a SCSI Ultra (50-pin) or Ultra Wide (68 pin) Bus (or maybe both). This technology was very fast and reliable but contributed to Macs’ weight (plus they had heavy cases as you mentioned). I know Macs are more “mass-marketed” now (to better compete with PCs) so are likely made of cheaper materials.

Some early nineties Macs had “superdrives” which could read DOS/Windows floppy disks.

http://lowendmac.com/quadra/quadra-610-dos-compatible.html

They were the greatest thing since sliced bread! And the matching Sony (Apple) Trinitron Monitor (along with dedicated VRAM installed in the computer) was very sharp and crisp!

With an Apple 2x external CD, the total cost was over $2K (2 bigger SIMMS, 2 VRAM chips and bigger LaCie SCSI HD, etc was another $1K extra)!!

I used this computer at home every day for over 5 years and absolutely loved it 🙂

[an]

[quote=bearishgurl]”Back in the day,” Macs had Motorola processors (made in the US) and all their components/peripherals were assigned in-line by the owner/user on a SCSI Ultra (50-pin) or Ultra Wide (68 pin) Bus (or maybe both). This technology was very fast and reliable but contributed to Macs’ weight (plus they had heavy cases as you mentioned). I know Macs are more “mass-marketed” now (to better compete with PCs) so are likely made of cheaper materials.

Some early nineties Macs had “superdrives” which could read DOS/Windows floppy disks.

http://lowendmac.com/quadra/quadra-610-dos-compatible.html

They were the greatest thing since sliced bread! And the matching Sony (Apple) Trinitron Monitor (along with dedicated VRAM installed in the computer) was very sharp and crisp!

With an Apple 2x external CD, the total cost was over $2K (2 bigger SIMMS, 2 VRAM chips and bigger LaCie SCSI HD, etc was another $1K extra)!!

I used this computer at home every day for over 5 years and absolutely loved it :)[/quote]
That’s WAAAAY back in the day. FYI, Macs weren’t the only one using SCSI. Actually, if you get any workstation class computer from any major PC OEM, they probably have SCSI in it. SCSI was designed for workstation/server and not for home used, since they’re expensive and tend to be louder, since they spin faster, which gives it the speed advantage over IDE. Also, SCSI drives are tested to have much higher MTBF than IDE. SCSI wasn’t and isn’t ideal for home use, since its advantages weren’t/aren’t being taken advantage of, since people tend to upgrade their computers after a few years, unlike workstation/server which tend to have much longer life span. So, for most users, paying more for SCSI isn’t a smart idea.

When talking about reliability, I don’t think ANYTHING can rival the IBM (now Lenovo) Thinkpad. I have one in 1999 for school. Tossed it around w/out a dedicated laptop bag (just put it in my backpack), and it lasted to this day. The hard drive finally fail recently, but other than that, everything was still working like a charm up until the day the HDD fail. The hinges never falter after 10+ years of use. They might not look as pretty as an Apple, but man, those things are bullet proof.

[fat_lazy_union]

Ok guys,

Before we talk about what *we* would like to get in a computer, let’s ask sdrealtor on what he wants.

sdrealtor, it would help if you start by describing what you have already.

1. Processor, memory size, harddrive size.
2. What’s going to be the purpose of this machine? Are you using it for work, sharing with the kids, gaming, surfing porn, etc?

Computers are a lot like cars. It’s a depreciating asset, only much worse. So… I would not go overkill on one unless you absolutely need to (IE you write software, or plan to use it for major kickass engineering development….)

On the other hand, if you’re looking for an excuse to buy something new, that’s ok too. But if you really are just having a bad crappy computer, I’m pretty sure you can get by if you just redo your O/S slip in a new hard drive and start over. Every computer ends up getting screwed up at some point or the other.

I’ll be happy to help you for free, since all the help you helped me if you aren’t in a hurry.

————————————–
All this about solid state drives, lots of memory, etc… Is only really necessary IF you are running the latest and greatest AND if you plan on tapping out your computer with extreme uses. For most everyday use (most everyone) that is not necessary…

Unless you are going to building Android O/S or extreme gaming, you probably don’t need a lot of this stuff..

I am running a quad core i7 on a laptop with two solid state drives more and 8GB of ram only because if I don’t building Android O/S ICS from a clean start would take me 2 hours instead of 45 minutes…And when I do that all cores are at 95% utilitization and I really can’t do anything else when it’s doing it’s work… I doubt most people find a need to do this so I don’t think most people need a core i7 or corei5 for that matter.

I also have the MacMini server edition with the quad core i7…And let me tell you, it’s a dog of a machine running linux and trying to do the same task versus using a normal PC with a core i7. I’m not sure what the difference is, except I only have 4GB of ram instead of 8 in there….And a major pain in the butt to dual or triple boot. A lot has to do with the stupid EFI/MBR hybrid partitioning scheme….

[sdrealtor]

walter you’ve changed…lol

[an]

Flu, nice take over :-). I agree with your statement, which is why I suggest a SSD upgrade and a new reinstall OS. That’s sufficient for most people. A 4 years old computer is more than sufficient for most people. Since he have a $500 budget, I think SSD and OS will get him the best bang for his bucks IMHO.

I’ve done many upgrades on every components in a computer for many years and I’ve never noticed as big of a performance improvement as adding a SSD. This is on a 4+ year old laptop too. So, for $200 ($100 for SSD and $100 for Windows 7), I’m pretty sure his computer will probably blow away anything he can get off the shelf for $500 today for most if not all of his use cases.

sdr, if you want, I can teach/show you how to do it. It’s quite easy.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]”Back in the day,” Macs had Motorola processors (made in the US) and all their components/peripherals were assigned in-line by the owner/user on a SCSI Ultra (50-pin) or Ultra Wide (68 pin) Bus (or maybe both). This technology was very fast and reliable but contributed to Macs’ weight (plus they had heavy cases as you mentioned). I know Macs are more “mass-marketed” now (to better compete with PCs) so are likely made of cheaper materials.

Some early nineties Macs had “superdrives” which could read DOS/Windows floppy disks.

http://lowendmac.com/quadra/quadra-610-dos-compatible.html

They were the greatest thing since sliced bread! And the matching Sony (Apple) Trinitron Monitor (along with dedicated VRAM installed in the computer) was very sharp and crisp!

With an Apple 2x external CD, the total cost was over $2K (2 bigger SIMMS, 2 VRAM chips and bigger LaCie SCSI HD, etc was another $1K extra)!!

I used this computer at home every day for over 5 years and absolutely loved it :)[/quote]
That’s WAAAAY back in the day. FYI, Macs weren’t the only one using SCSI. Actually, if you get any workstation class computer from any major PC OEM, they probably have SCSI in it. SCSI was designed for workstation/server and not for home used, since they’re expensive and tend to be louder, since they spin faster, which gives it the speed advantage over IDE. Also, SCSI drives are tested to have much higher MTBF than IDE. SCSI wasn’t and isn’t ideal for home use, since its advantages weren’t/aren’t being taken advantage of, since people tend to upgrade their computers after a few years, unlike workstation/server which tend to have much longer life span. So, for most users, paying more for SCSI isn’t a smart idea.

When talking about reliability, I don’t think ANYTHING can rival the IBM (now Lenovo) Thinkpad. I have one in 1999 for school. Tossed it around w/out a dedicated laptop bag (just put it in my backpack), and it lasted to this day. The hard drive finally fail recently, but other than that, everything was still working like a charm up until the day the HDD fail. The hinges never falter after 10+ years of use. They might not look as pretty as an Apple, but man, those things are bullet proof.[/quote]

Yes those macs were WAAAAY back in the day, AN! I was happy to accept my (circa 2000) 25-lb “MMX server” from a local firm who was “upgrading” in 2005 (actually downgrading, IMHO) and it is a WORKHOUSE and its hdwre is top notch! I haven’t replaced a thing! I remembered how great SCSI was and already had the (expensive) ultrawide card and cables and told them I’d take it and then bought another 17GB SCSI HD for it at Fry’s for about $160-$170 IIRC, which is, of course, now full. There is a bay for another SCSI drive (I’ve had a SCSI Zip drive in there) but all I have are 2-3 GB HD’s (from macs) which were $330-400 “back in the day.” I’m thinking of throwing a “spare” large IDE in there for file storage. Yes, the fan is fairly loud and I haven’t found an option in CMOS or a switch on the board to get it go to sleep … only hibernate. Any tips for me here, AN? If so, pls pm me 🙂

Here is a pic of the mobo:

http://www.datacrunch.net/go/articles/?TG_KE_ATM=ASUS_P2B_DS_MOTHERBOARD

It is a Dual Pentium III running at 850 MHz. I “tested” it and it WILL run Vista but its specs are on the edge … no Aero available. It currently runs on WIN XP Pro SP3.

Thanks for any help!

I’d still rather have it than a 2011-12 mass-marketed “empty box” weighing <5 lbs.

[bearishgurl]

The walter I knew seemed to be another “computer neophyte” but was talented in other (immeasurable) ways …. ;=)

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN]Flu, nice take over :-). I agree with your statement, which is why I suggest a SSD upgrade and a new reinstall OS. That’s sufficient for most people. A 4 years old computer is more than sufficient for most people. Since he have a $500 budget, I think SSD and OS will get him the best bang for his bucks IMHO.

I’ve done many upgrades on every components in a computer for many years and I’ve never noticed as big of a performance improvement as adding a SSD. This is on a 4+ year old laptop too. So, for $200 ($100 for SSD and $100 for Windows 7), I’m pretty sure his computer will probably blow away anything he can get off the shelf for $500 today for most if not all of his use cases.

sdr, if you want, I can teach/show you how to do it. It’s quite easy.[/quote]

A periodic vacuum of the inside of the case, incl taking out the cards and brushing them off with a soft paintbrush is also useful in prolonging hardware life, ESP if the computer has been left to hibernate or sleep 24/7/365.

[sdrealtor]

FLU and AN
I’m convinced! I’ll be in touch and we can figure out how to bring this lumbering mule back to life!

Great day out there today! Heading over to Island Divine for some fun this afternoon. Great event and a great cause if anyone is looking for some adult fun!

http://www.jlsd.org/?nd=island_divine

[SK in CV]

Before you buy, make sure to check dell’s scratch and dent site. Inventory is not always predictable, but if they have what you want, it will generally be priced pretty well, and often includes software that you’ll probably need anyway. (Pay no attention to those who say their products suck. They do have a couple very decent lines.) The other great benefit of buying scratch & dents is quick shipping. Everything is already packed and ready to go. I ordered my current laptop at 4:00 PM, it was delivered by noon the next day.

Another consideration is skipping the desktop altogether and go with a laptop, a larger monitor and wireless keyboard and mouse. That way you have all the luxuries of a desktop but you’re always using the same computer. I haven’t touched my desktop in a year, the only reason i have it is that my printer is neither wireless nor network compatible, so it’s plugged into the desktop.

[Coronita]

[quote=AN]Flu, nice take over :-). I agree with your statement, which is why I suggest a SSD upgrade and a new reinstall OS. That’s sufficient for most people. A 4 years old computer is more than sufficient for most people. Since he have a $500 budget, I think SSD and OS will get him the best bang for his bucks IMHO.

I’ve done many upgrades on every components in a computer for many years and I’ve never noticed as big of a performance improvement as adding a SSD. This is on a 4+ year old laptop too. So, for $200 ($100 for SSD and $100 for Windows 7), I’m pretty sure his computer will probably blow away anything he can get off the shelf for $500 today for most if not all of his use cases.

sdr, if you want, I can teach/show you how to do it. It’s quite easy.[/quote]

AN, I’m not sure if he needs an SSD. and they are still pretty pricey. I which they would drop in price because what I love about them in laptops are

1) they significantly extend the battery life.
2) much more durable. Drop your laptop, your normal hard drive might be toast…SSD has no moving parts, so it’s great.

However, I am not convinced as far as their reliability so far in the long term….Not saying it’s not reliable…Just that there hasn’t been enough on the market long enough to tell if data you store now will still be good 5 years later+…Given that most people backup their data in some format (cloud or otherwise), it’s less of an issue these days than before…But still….

Slightly not the same technology but for instance on my Galaxy Tablet, the internal storage craps out every few months or such….After the first time, I’ve been a proponent of regular backups…. I don’t have as much concerns on a traditional computer, because frankly I’ve never had a normal hard drive have a complete failure from which I couldn’t recover from (even if it meant physically taking out the platter and moving onto another similar drive just to recover the data).

In my opinion, if you have a desktop…Use an SSD to give you extreme performance, but have a regular harddrive to backup your data..For instance, I would install the O/S apps and games on the SSD, and have a hard drive to store all the data. That way if your SSD craps out, you can always just reinstall. If you’re working with large pictures like in photoshop or something, I would put all the working copies on the SSD so that read/write access is fast. BUT i would do a regular scheduled backup EVERY day to a USB normal harddrive or clouddrive, just in case….

For most users 2GB of ram is sufficient… I was able to survive with 1GB most of my life.

I don’t think sdr needs an SSD. My philosophy is that if he was running fine before, and all else hasn’t changed that much, he probably will run just fine right now. His machine is probably all messed up because of some virus or some install/reinstall or running out of disk space or just because…well he’s using windows for some times and at a few times in his life, it wouldn’t shutdown, so he just unplugged it, it rebooted, and then the registry or some other crap is all messed up… I have never ever had a windows machine that ran as good after 1-2 years as it did right after a brand new install. I don’t know why…. So usually I keep using the windows box until it crashes or gets stolen or something, and then I reinstall…

That’s why I love linux. Too bad software for it sucks. But I do run virtualBox on it and get windows inside Ubuntu… Performance is actually pretty good with a core i7 quad core, 8 GB ram, and dual SSD…

AN, our goal is we should save sdr from spending uncessarily on a new computer…So that he can take the same amount of money and put it to a much better waste of of resources that would probably put a much bigger smile on his face…. A Dinan chip for his 335.

http://www.dinancars.com/shop/D900-30TB-Stage-1-Performance-Engine-Software-Boost-Upgrade.aspx#page=1

sdrealtor, you know you really want that extra 60hp…You know you really want it….

[paramount]

I wouldn’t buy Windows 7, just run the Windows 8 Beta/preview – it’s free and by now very stable.

[Coronita]

[quote=paramount]I wouldn’t buy Windows 7, just run the Windows 8 Beta/preview – it’s free and by now very stable.[/quote]

That’s why I would just not bother to upgrade a PC right now…

Paramount. Do you have an MSDN account?

[an]

flu, I agree that SSD hasn’t been out long enough to test their reliability, but according to their MTBF data, it “should” last. However, I do agree that if you have important data, you have 2 options, get a standard mechanical drive to store it in (I have a couple 300GB sitting around if you want it for free sdr). Standard HDD are dirt cheap again, so for ~$100, you can get > 1.5TB.

The reason why I’m so positive on SSD for everyone is because it improve speed on the part where people will notice the most, which is boot up & launching apps. Due to the speed of SSD, you might not need to get more memory, because even if you start paging due to low memory, SSD should be fast enough for you not to notice a performance hit due to paging.

If sdr want to wait for W8, I would suggest get the SSD and reinstall Vista on it too.

My personal computer isn’t nearly as swanky as yours flu. I’m still running on an overclocked Core 2 Duo. I’m just waiting for the day when I can get 64GB of RAM for a reasonable price, then I’ll upgrade :-). Compiling code isn’t the only thing that make you need a faster computer. Photo and Video editing will do that too. If you do a lot of photo & video editing, then it’ll be a good idea to get a few 3TB HDD to store those HUGE files on as well. SSD can’t help you there.

WRT Dinan chip, I think they’re over priced for what you get. I’d probably get the Vishnu chip or the countless other chips out there that make more power for less. The chips are quite easy to install and remove, so if something happen, you can always remove it and bring it to the dealer :-D.

[Author]

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