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Allan from Fallbrook.
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June 7, 2009 at 2:44 PM #412613June 7, 2009 at 3:29 PM #411927
Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantRus: I might be among the few here that don’t think Kim Jong-il is crazy. I think he’s far smarter than given credit for, and I think his calculus is a lot sharper than ours, Japan’s, China’s or Russia’s is.
He’s really holding the majority of the cards. If we force a North Korean implosion, then almost all bets are off. South Korea doesn’t want that and due to the fact that, if Kim is pushed into a corner, he’ll undoubtedly invade the South (which also imperils Japan). China doesn’t want to see an implosion that doesn’t end in war, but might end in tens of thousands of North Korean refugees heading into China and a possible North-South Korean reunification.
The US doesn’t want a possible war, either. My dad fought in both WWII (Pacific) and Korea with the Marines and he always thought Korea was far, far worse than WWII. He had fought at Okinawa during WWII and that campaign was considered horrific, so his sense that Korea was worse is saying something.
I think Kim is setting the tone for the Obama administration and seeing what he can get away with. He’s humbled the Clinton administration and Bush through two terms; so why not?
June 7, 2009 at 3:29 PM #412163ParticipantRus: I might be among the few here that don’t think Kim Jong-il is crazy. I think he’s far smarter than given credit for, and I think his calculus is a lot sharper than ours, Japan’s, China’s or Russia’s is.
He’s really holding the majority of the cards. If we force a North Korean implosion, then almost all bets are off. South Korea doesn’t want that and due to the fact that, if Kim is pushed into a corner, he’ll undoubtedly invade the South (which also imperils Japan). China doesn’t want to see an implosion that doesn’t end in war, but might end in tens of thousands of North Korean refugees heading into China and a possible North-South Korean reunification.
The US doesn’t want a possible war, either. My dad fought in both WWII (Pacific) and Korea with the Marines and he always thought Korea was far, far worse than WWII. He had fought at Okinawa during WWII and that campaign was considered horrific, so his sense that Korea was worse is saying something.
I think Kim is setting the tone for the Obama administration and seeing what he can get away with. He’s humbled the Clinton administration and Bush through two terms; so why not?
June 7, 2009 at 3:29 PM #412411ParticipantRus: I might be among the few here that don’t think Kim Jong-il is crazy. I think he’s far smarter than given credit for, and I think his calculus is a lot sharper than ours, Japan’s, China’s or Russia’s is.
He’s really holding the majority of the cards. If we force a North Korean implosion, then almost all bets are off. South Korea doesn’t want that and due to the fact that, if Kim is pushed into a corner, he’ll undoubtedly invade the South (which also imperils Japan). China doesn’t want to see an implosion that doesn’t end in war, but might end in tens of thousands of North Korean refugees heading into China and a possible North-South Korean reunification.
The US doesn’t want a possible war, either. My dad fought in both WWII (Pacific) and Korea with the Marines and he always thought Korea was far, far worse than WWII. He had fought at Okinawa during WWII and that campaign was considered horrific, so his sense that Korea was worse is saying something.
I think Kim is setting the tone for the Obama administration and seeing what he can get away with. He’s humbled the Clinton administration and Bush through two terms; so why not?
June 7, 2009 at 3:29 PM #412475ParticipantRus: I might be among the few here that don’t think Kim Jong-il is crazy. I think he’s far smarter than given credit for, and I think his calculus is a lot sharper than ours, Japan’s, China’s or Russia’s is.
He’s really holding the majority of the cards. If we force a North Korean implosion, then almost all bets are off. South Korea doesn’t want that and due to the fact that, if Kim is pushed into a corner, he’ll undoubtedly invade the South (which also imperils Japan). China doesn’t want to see an implosion that doesn’t end in war, but might end in tens of thousands of North Korean refugees heading into China and a possible North-South Korean reunification.
The US doesn’t want a possible war, either. My dad fought in both WWII (Pacific) and Korea with the Marines and he always thought Korea was far, far worse than WWII. He had fought at Okinawa during WWII and that campaign was considered horrific, so his sense that Korea was worse is saying something.
I think Kim is setting the tone for the Obama administration and seeing what he can get away with. He’s humbled the Clinton administration and Bush through two terms; so why not?
June 7, 2009 at 3:29 PM #412628ParticipantRus: I might be among the few here that don’t think Kim Jong-il is crazy. I think he’s far smarter than given credit for, and I think his calculus is a lot sharper than ours, Japan’s, China’s or Russia’s is.
He’s really holding the majority of the cards. If we force a North Korean implosion, then almost all bets are off. South Korea doesn’t want that and due to the fact that, if Kim is pushed into a corner, he’ll undoubtedly invade the South (which also imperils Japan). China doesn’t want to see an implosion that doesn’t end in war, but might end in tens of thousands of North Korean refugees heading into China and a possible North-South Korean reunification.
The US doesn’t want a possible war, either. My dad fought in both WWII (Pacific) and Korea with the Marines and he always thought Korea was far, far worse than WWII. He had fought at Okinawa during WWII and that campaign was considered horrific, so his sense that Korea was worse is saying something.
I think Kim is setting the tone for the Obama administration and seeing what he can get away with. He’s humbled the Clinton administration and Bush through two terms; so why not?
June 7, 2009 at 4:00 PM #411938NotCranky
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Rus: I might be among the few here that don’t think Kim Jong-il is crazy. I think he’s far smarter than given credit for, and I think his calculus is a lot sharper than ours, Japan’s, China’s or Russia’s is.
He’s really holding the majority of the cards. If we force a North Korean implosion, then almost all bets are off. South Korea doesn’t want that and due to the fact that, if Kim is pushed into a corner, he’ll undoubtedly invade the South (which also imperils Japan). China doesn’t want to see an implosion that doesn’t end in war, but might end in tens of thousands of North Korean refugees heading into China and a possible North-South Korean reunification.
The US doesn’t want a possible war, either. My dad fought in both WWII (Pacific) and Korea with the Marines and he always thought Korea was far, far worse than WWII. He had fought at Okinawa during WWII and that campaign was considered horrific, so his sense that Korea was worse is saying something.
I think Kim is setting the tone for the Obama administration and seeing what he can get away with. He’s humbled the Clinton administration and Bush through two terms; so why not?[/quote]
Basically what you are saying is carbon copy of what the poster I had mentioned said. I think his plan has a deterrent/incentive mechanism for any North Korean moves into the demilitarized zone that would be part of negotiations to curtail launches and the purported nuclear tests.
What would you do? What would you do if you were in North Korea’s corner?
June 7, 2009 at 4:00 PM #412176Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Rus: I might be among the few here that don’t think Kim Jong-il is crazy. I think he’s far smarter than given credit for, and I think his calculus is a lot sharper than ours, Japan’s, China’s or Russia’s is.
He’s really holding the majority of the cards. If we force a North Korean implosion, then almost all bets are off. South Korea doesn’t want that and due to the fact that, if Kim is pushed into a corner, he’ll undoubtedly invade the South (which also imperils Japan). China doesn’t want to see an implosion that doesn’t end in war, but might end in tens of thousands of North Korean refugees heading into China and a possible North-South Korean reunification.
The US doesn’t want a possible war, either. My dad fought in both WWII (Pacific) and Korea with the Marines and he always thought Korea was far, far worse than WWII. He had fought at Okinawa during WWII and that campaign was considered horrific, so his sense that Korea was worse is saying something.
I think Kim is setting the tone for the Obama administration and seeing what he can get away with. He’s humbled the Clinton administration and Bush through two terms; so why not?[/quote]
Basically what you are saying is carbon copy of what the poster I had mentioned said. I think his plan has a deterrent/incentive mechanism for any North Korean moves into the demilitarized zone that would be part of negotiations to curtail launches and the purported nuclear tests.
What would you do? What would you do if you were in North Korea’s corner?
June 7, 2009 at 4:00 PM #412421Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Rus: I might be among the few here that don’t think Kim Jong-il is crazy. I think he’s far smarter than given credit for, and I think his calculus is a lot sharper than ours, Japan’s, China’s or Russia’s is.
He’s really holding the majority of the cards. If we force a North Korean implosion, then almost all bets are off. South Korea doesn’t want that and due to the fact that, if Kim is pushed into a corner, he’ll undoubtedly invade the South (which also imperils Japan). China doesn’t want to see an implosion that doesn’t end in war, but might end in tens of thousands of North Korean refugees heading into China and a possible North-South Korean reunification.
The US doesn’t want a possible war, either. My dad fought in both WWII (Pacific) and Korea with the Marines and he always thought Korea was far, far worse than WWII. He had fought at Okinawa during WWII and that campaign was considered horrific, so his sense that Korea was worse is saying something.
I think Kim is setting the tone for the Obama administration and seeing what he can get away with. He’s humbled the Clinton administration and Bush through two terms; so why not?[/quote]
Basically what you are saying is carbon copy of what the poster I had mentioned said. I think his plan has a deterrent/incentive mechanism for any North Korean moves into the demilitarized zone that would be part of negotiations to curtail launches and the purported nuclear tests.
What would you do? What would you do if you were in North Korea’s corner?
June 7, 2009 at 4:00 PM #412488Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Rus: I might be among the few here that don’t think Kim Jong-il is crazy. I think he’s far smarter than given credit for, and I think his calculus is a lot sharper than ours, Japan’s, China’s or Russia’s is.
He’s really holding the majority of the cards. If we force a North Korean implosion, then almost all bets are off. South Korea doesn’t want that and due to the fact that, if Kim is pushed into a corner, he’ll undoubtedly invade the South (which also imperils Japan). China doesn’t want to see an implosion that doesn’t end in war, but might end in tens of thousands of North Korean refugees heading into China and a possible North-South Korean reunification.
The US doesn’t want a possible war, either. My dad fought in both WWII (Pacific) and Korea with the Marines and he always thought Korea was far, far worse than WWII. He had fought at Okinawa during WWII and that campaign was considered horrific, so his sense that Korea was worse is saying something.
I think Kim is setting the tone for the Obama administration and seeing what he can get away with. He’s humbled the Clinton administration and Bush through two terms; so why not?[/quote]
Basically what you are saying is carbon copy of what the poster I had mentioned said. I think his plan has a deterrent/incentive mechanism for any North Korean moves into the demilitarized zone that would be part of negotiations to curtail launches and the purported nuclear tests.
What would you do? What would you do if you were in North Korea’s corner?
June 7, 2009 at 4:00 PM #412641Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Rus: I might be among the few here that don’t think Kim Jong-il is crazy. I think he’s far smarter than given credit for, and I think his calculus is a lot sharper than ours, Japan’s, China’s or Russia’s is.
He’s really holding the majority of the cards. If we force a North Korean implosion, then almost all bets are off. South Korea doesn’t want that and due to the fact that, if Kim is pushed into a corner, he’ll undoubtedly invade the South (which also imperils Japan). China doesn’t want to see an implosion that doesn’t end in war, but might end in tens of thousands of North Korean refugees heading into China and a possible North-South Korean reunification.
The US doesn’t want a possible war, either. My dad fought in both WWII (Pacific) and Korea with the Marines and he always thought Korea was far, far worse than WWII. He had fought at Okinawa during WWII and that campaign was considered horrific, so his sense that Korea was worse is saying something.
I think Kim is setting the tone for the Obama administration and seeing what he can get away with. He’s humbled the Clinton administration and Bush through two terms; so why not?[/quote]
Basically what you are saying is carbon copy of what the poster I had mentioned said. I think his plan has a deterrent/incentive mechanism for any North Korean moves into the demilitarized zone that would be part of negotiations to curtail launches and the purported nuclear tests.
What would you do? What would you do if you were in North Korea’s corner?
June 7, 2009 at 4:13 PM #411948Participant[quote=Russell] What would you do? What would you do if you were in North Korea’s corner?[/quote]
If I were Kim, I’d keep doing exactly what I’ve been doing. It’s highly effective and he knows it. The US, over the last 20 years or so, has been completely at a loss when dealing with North Korea. We’ve tried everything from bribery to bluster with no effect.
The only country that I think can bring power to bear on Kim is China and it looks like the status quo ante is working quite fine for them, thank you very much.
I believe Obama’s hard line stance is simple posturing and I’m hoping he’s smarter than to goad North Korea into something. We’d be righteously screwed if the situation escalates into hostilities. We don’t have anyone left to commit there. Shit, we be throwing the Cub Scouts and the Campfire Girls at them!
June 7, 2009 at 4:13 PM #412186Participant[quote=Russell] What would you do? What would you do if you were in North Korea’s corner?[/quote]
If I were Kim, I’d keep doing exactly what I’ve been doing. It’s highly effective and he knows it. The US, over the last 20 years or so, has been completely at a loss when dealing with North Korea. We’ve tried everything from bribery to bluster with no effect.
The only country that I think can bring power to bear on Kim is China and it looks like the status quo ante is working quite fine for them, thank you very much.
I believe Obama’s hard line stance is simple posturing and I’m hoping he’s smarter than to goad North Korea into something. We’d be righteously screwed if the situation escalates into hostilities. We don’t have anyone left to commit there. Shit, we be throwing the Cub Scouts and the Campfire Girls at them!
June 7, 2009 at 4:13 PM #412431Participant[quote=Russell] What would you do? What would you do if you were in North Korea’s corner?[/quote]
If I were Kim, I’d keep doing exactly what I’ve been doing. It’s highly effective and he knows it. The US, over the last 20 years or so, has been completely at a loss when dealing with North Korea. We’ve tried everything from bribery to bluster with no effect.
The only country that I think can bring power to bear on Kim is China and it looks like the status quo ante is working quite fine for them, thank you very much.
I believe Obama’s hard line stance is simple posturing and I’m hoping he’s smarter than to goad North Korea into something. We’d be righteously screwed if the situation escalates into hostilities. We don’t have anyone left to commit there. Shit, we be throwing the Cub Scouts and the Campfire Girls at them!
June 7, 2009 at 4:13 PM #412498Participant[quote=Russell] What would you do? What would you do if you were in North Korea’s corner?[/quote]
If I were Kim, I’d keep doing exactly what I’ve been doing. It’s highly effective and he knows it. The US, over the last 20 years or so, has been completely at a loss when dealing with North Korea. We’ve tried everything from bribery to bluster with no effect.
The only country that I think can bring power to bear on Kim is China and it looks like the status quo ante is working quite fine for them, thank you very much.
I believe Obama’s hard line stance is simple posturing and I’m hoping he’s smarter than to goad North Korea into something. We’d be righteously screwed if the situation escalates into hostilities. We don’t have anyone left to commit there. Shit, we be throwing the Cub Scouts and the Campfire Girls at them!
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