OT: “Sing for Change” – the Obama Youth

[dbapig]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=afx114]Isn’t N. Korea’s military made up mostly of rusted out and broken down Cold War-era Soviet hardware? And aren’t their troops and populace in general poorly trained and weakened by famine?

I don’t know if these things are true — they’re just nuggets that I’ve heard a few times from various reporters who’ve managed to get in there. I am curious what the military-knowledgeable people here think about the above claims.[/quote]

Afx: Google “Oplan 5027” and you’ll get a good look at US planning on the subject. While the general populace is impoverished and starving, the NK military is not. Kim makes certain his military machine is well fed and they are certainly well indoctrinated and hate the US with a passion.

It’s also interesting to note that North Korea does not consider South Korea it’s main foe: The US holds that role. South Korea considers North Korea their main enemy, but not vice versa.

Someone earlier opined that North Korea has 8,000 artillery tubes trained on Seoul. Actually, this number is about 500, and I think North Korea has about 8,000 tubes TOTAL in their military.

Either way, a second Korean War would be devastating and I don’t doubt that we’d see WMD and even nukes if Kim had them in deployable fashion. I don’t seriously think he wants war, especially because he knows the final outcome, but it’s a convenient bargaining chip/tool for him to use.
[/quote]

I did google “Oplan 5027” and found this sentence to be pretty insightful.

“Pyongyang has the ability to start a new Korean War, but not to survive one.”

[dbapig]

[quote=afx114]Isn’t N. Korea’s military made up mostly of rusted out and broken down Cold War-era Soviet hardware? And aren’t their troops and populace in general poorly trained and weakened by famine?

I don’t know if these things are true — they’re just nuggets that I’ve heard a few times from various reporters who’ve managed to get in there. I am curious what the military-knowledgeable people here think about the above claims.[/quote]

Yes N Korea is utterly poor. Poorly trained and weakened.
There is no doubt that if a full scale war breaks out on the peninsula, N Korea will lose. The question is how bloody and how long and how much human suffering. And everyone knows it will be very very much so.
I am not however ask for appeasement. Just stating a fact.

[dbapig]

[quote=afx114]Isn’t N. Korea’s military made up mostly of rusted out and broken down Cold War-era Soviet hardware? And aren’t their troops and populace in general poorly trained and weakened by famine?

I don’t know if these things are true — they’re just nuggets that I’ve heard a few times from various reporters who’ve managed to get in there. I am curious what the military-knowledgeable people here think about the above claims.[/quote]

Yes N Korea is utterly poor. Poorly trained and weakened.
There is no doubt that if a full scale war breaks out on the peninsula, N Korea will lose. The question is how bloody and how long and how much human suffering. And everyone knows it will be very very much so.
I am not however ask for appeasement. Just stating a fact.

[dbapig]

[quote=afx114]Isn’t N. Korea’s military made up mostly of rusted out and broken down Cold War-era Soviet hardware? And aren’t their troops and populace in general poorly trained and weakened by famine?

I don’t know if these things are true — they’re just nuggets that I’ve heard a few times from various reporters who’ve managed to get in there. I am curious what the military-knowledgeable people here think about the above claims.[/quote]

Yes N Korea is utterly poor. Poorly trained and weakened.
There is no doubt that if a full scale war breaks out on the peninsula, N Korea will lose. The question is how bloody and how long and how much human suffering. And everyone knows it will be very very much so.
I am not however ask for appeasement. Just stating a fact.

[dbapig]

[quote=afx114]Isn’t N. Korea’s military made up mostly of rusted out and broken down Cold War-era Soviet hardware? And aren’t their troops and populace in general poorly trained and weakened by famine?

I don’t know if these things are true — they’re just nuggets that I’ve heard a few times from various reporters who’ve managed to get in there. I am curious what the military-knowledgeable people here think about the above claims.[/quote]

Yes N Korea is utterly poor. Poorly trained and weakened.
There is no doubt that if a full scale war breaks out on the peninsula, N Korea will lose. The question is how bloody and how long and how much human suffering. And everyone knows it will be very very much so.
I am not however ask for appeasement. Just stating a fact.

[dbapig]

[quote=afx114]Isn’t N. Korea’s military made up mostly of rusted out and broken down Cold War-era Soviet hardware? And aren’t their troops and populace in general poorly trained and weakened by famine?

I don’t know if these things are true — they’re just nuggets that I’ve heard a few times from various reporters who’ve managed to get in there. I am curious what the military-knowledgeable people here think about the above claims.[/quote]

Yes N Korea is utterly poor. Poorly trained and weakened.
There is no doubt that if a full scale war breaks out on the peninsula, N Korea will lose. The question is how bloody and how long and how much human suffering. And everyone knows it will be very very much so.
I am not however ask for appeasement. Just stating a fact.

[surveyor]

allan:

Sorry, don’t have HBO. Maybe if it comes out in DVD I’ll see if I can watch it. If it weren’t for the Lakers being deep in the playoffs, I wouldn’t be able to justify cable television to my wife…

As for Obama’s speech, it was difficult listening to it, being so riddled with historical inaccuracies, questionable moral relativism, and lack of understanding of what he was even quoting when he quoted the Koran. I just had to shake my head. Par for the course when it comes to Obama.

Still, for me, it’s a speech and I don’t get worked up over a speech, I worry more about his actions. My whole attitude towards Obama has been basically the same as Bush, history will judge whether he succeeded or failed or was able to succesfully blame someone else for his failures.

[surveyor]

allan:

Sorry, don’t have HBO. Maybe if it comes out in DVD I’ll see if I can watch it. If it weren’t for the Lakers being deep in the playoffs, I wouldn’t be able to justify cable television to my wife…

As for Obama’s speech, it was difficult listening to it, being so riddled with historical inaccuracies, questionable moral relativism, and lack of understanding of what he was even quoting when he quoted the Koran. I just had to shake my head. Par for the course when it comes to Obama.

Still, for me, it’s a speech and I don’t get worked up over a speech, I worry more about his actions. My whole attitude towards Obama has been basically the same as Bush, history will judge whether he succeeded or failed or was able to succesfully blame someone else for his failures.

[surveyor]

allan:

Sorry, don’t have HBO. Maybe if it comes out in DVD I’ll see if I can watch it. If it weren’t for the Lakers being deep in the playoffs, I wouldn’t be able to justify cable television to my wife…

As for Obama’s speech, it was difficult listening to it, being so riddled with historical inaccuracies, questionable moral relativism, and lack of understanding of what he was even quoting when he quoted the Koran. I just had to shake my head. Par for the course when it comes to Obama.

Still, for me, it’s a speech and I don’t get worked up over a speech, I worry more about his actions. My whole attitude towards Obama has been basically the same as Bush, history will judge whether he succeeded or failed or was able to succesfully blame someone else for his failures.

[surveyor]

allan:

Sorry, don’t have HBO. Maybe if it comes out in DVD I’ll see if I can watch it. If it weren’t for the Lakers being deep in the playoffs, I wouldn’t be able to justify cable television to my wife…

As for Obama’s speech, it was difficult listening to it, being so riddled with historical inaccuracies, questionable moral relativism, and lack of understanding of what he was even quoting when he quoted the Koran. I just had to shake my head. Par for the course when it comes to Obama.

Still, for me, it’s a speech and I don’t get worked up over a speech, I worry more about his actions. My whole attitude towards Obama has been basically the same as Bush, history will judge whether he succeeded or failed or was able to succesfully blame someone else for his failures.

[surveyor]

allan:

Sorry, don’t have HBO. Maybe if it comes out in DVD I’ll see if I can watch it. If it weren’t for the Lakers being deep in the playoffs, I wouldn’t be able to justify cable television to my wife…

As for Obama’s speech, it was difficult listening to it, being so riddled with historical inaccuracies, questionable moral relativism, and lack of understanding of what he was even quoting when he quoted the Koran. I just had to shake my head. Par for the course when it comes to Obama.

Still, for me, it’s a speech and I don’t get worked up over a speech, I worry more about his actions. My whole attitude towards Obama has been basically the same as Bush, history will judge whether he succeeded or failed or was able to succesfully blame someone else for his failures.

[afx114]

[quote=dbapig]”Pyongyang has the ability to start a new Korean War, but not to survive one.”[/quote]

Yes, so what are our options then? Continue to “appease?” Start a war to kick him out? Covert operations? Exploding cigars? Sounds like we’re content to let the old man play with his toys and let him bask in his own little ego in his own little world for a little while longer until he expires. What then?

The other option? A lengthy, bloody war resulting in tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dead? Maybe a million? Is this the option that the anti-“appeasement” crowd would prefer?

At what point does pragmatism become appeasement, or vice versa?

[afx114]

[quote=dbapig]”Pyongyang has the ability to start a new Korean War, but not to survive one.”[/quote]

Yes, so what are our options then? Continue to “appease?” Start a war to kick him out? Covert operations? Exploding cigars? Sounds like we’re content to let the old man play with his toys and let him bask in his own little ego in his own little world for a little while longer until he expires. What then?

The other option? A lengthy, bloody war resulting in tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dead? Maybe a million? Is this the option that the anti-“appeasement” crowd would prefer?

At what point does pragmatism become appeasement, or vice versa?

[afx114]

[quote=dbapig]”Pyongyang has the ability to start a new Korean War, but not to survive one.”[/quote]

Yes, so what are our options then? Continue to “appease?” Start a war to kick him out? Covert operations? Exploding cigars? Sounds like we’re content to let the old man play with his toys and let him bask in his own little ego in his own little world for a little while longer until he expires. What then?

The other option? A lengthy, bloody war resulting in tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dead? Maybe a million? Is this the option that the anti-“appeasement” crowd would prefer?

At what point does pragmatism become appeasement, or vice versa?

[afx114]

[quote=dbapig]”Pyongyang has the ability to start a new Korean War, but not to survive one.”[/quote]

Yes, so what are our options then? Continue to “appease?” Start a war to kick him out? Covert operations? Exploding cigars? Sounds like we’re content to let the old man play with his toys and let him bask in his own little ego in his own little world for a little while longer until he expires. What then?

The other option? A lengthy, bloody war resulting in tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dead? Maybe a million? Is this the option that the anti-“appeasement” crowd would prefer?

At what point does pragmatism become appeasement, or vice versa?

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