OT: “Obama Orders Pakistan Drone Attacks”

[afx114]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Obama supports FISA and even reversed his position during the campaign on the issue. Do you think that the Patriot Act will be going away during his tenure? I don’t.
[/quote]

This is my biggest disappointment in Obama so far. My only consolation is the belief that the Patriot Act will be slowly dismantled in the same way the right is trying to take down Roe. Death by a thousand cuts. A more transparent and open administration is a good first step, even if it doesn’t yet directly apply to things like FISA and rendition. My hope is that we’ll see a domino effect where some of the bigger things like FISA begin to weaken as a result of some of these initial orders.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]While I applaud his decision to close Gitmo, he will undoubtedly continue the policy of extraordinary rendition (started during the Clinton Administration, by the way), and continue to prosecute the War on Terror following the same guidelines as set down during the Bush Administration.[/quote]

I don’t quite agree with you here. The order to close Gitmo also included wording to shut down additional “secret overseas CIA prisons,” whatever that means. Of course this could only apply to the prisons that we actually know about — but then again, those wouldn’t be “secret” then, would they? Who knows if this also includes a ban on “outsourcing” to torture-friendly states. I guess we’ll just have to see, but at least it’s a good first step.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

afx: Obama was given a golden opportunity to take a hard stand on FISA during the campaign and he whiffed.

He is continuing to hold the course that’s been in place for some time now (pre-dating Dubya) and do you believe his appointment of Hillary Clinton as SecState signals a radical departure of any sort?

Don’t forget, Hillary was one of the most bellicose advocates for regime change in Iraq (Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998, anyone?) and Biden himself is very pro-Israel (to the extent that he’s been labeled “pro-Zionist” by some of the more strident elements of the Democratic Party).

I don’t see Obama doing away with rendition and, given the support he presently enjoys, he could do far more to dismantle the Patriot Act than he’s doing or has indicated a willingness to do.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

afx: Obama was given a golden opportunity to take a hard stand on FISA during the campaign and he whiffed.

He is continuing to hold the course that’s been in place for some time now (pre-dating Dubya) and do you believe his appointment of Hillary Clinton as SecState signals a radical departure of any sort?

Don’t forget, Hillary was one of the most bellicose advocates for regime change in Iraq (Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998, anyone?) and Biden himself is very pro-Israel (to the extent that he’s been labeled “pro-Zionist” by some of the more strident elements of the Democratic Party).

I don’t see Obama doing away with rendition and, given the support he presently enjoys, he could do far more to dismantle the Patriot Act than he’s doing or has indicated a willingness to do.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

afx: Obama was given a golden opportunity to take a hard stand on FISA during the campaign and he whiffed.

He is continuing to hold the course that’s been in place for some time now (pre-dating Dubya) and do you believe his appointment of Hillary Clinton as SecState signals a radical departure of any sort?

Don’t forget, Hillary was one of the most bellicose advocates for regime change in Iraq (Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998, anyone?) and Biden himself is very pro-Israel (to the extent that he’s been labeled “pro-Zionist” by some of the more strident elements of the Democratic Party).

I don’t see Obama doing away with rendition and, given the support he presently enjoys, he could do far more to dismantle the Patriot Act than he’s doing or has indicated a willingness to do.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

afx: Obama was given a golden opportunity to take a hard stand on FISA during the campaign and he whiffed.

He is continuing to hold the course that’s been in place for some time now (pre-dating Dubya) and do you believe his appointment of Hillary Clinton as SecState signals a radical departure of any sort?

Don’t forget, Hillary was one of the most bellicose advocates for regime change in Iraq (Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998, anyone?) and Biden himself is very pro-Israel (to the extent that he’s been labeled “pro-Zionist” by some of the more strident elements of the Democratic Party).

I don’t see Obama doing away with rendition and, given the support he presently enjoys, he could do far more to dismantle the Patriot Act than he’s doing or has indicated a willingness to do.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

afx: Obama was given a golden opportunity to take a hard stand on FISA during the campaign and he whiffed.

He is continuing to hold the course that’s been in place for some time now (pre-dating Dubya) and do you believe his appointment of Hillary Clinton as SecState signals a radical departure of any sort?

Don’t forget, Hillary was one of the most bellicose advocates for regime change in Iraq (Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998, anyone?) and Biden himself is very pro-Israel (to the extent that he’s been labeled “pro-Zionist” by some of the more strident elements of the Democratic Party).

I don’t see Obama doing away with rendition and, given the support he presently enjoys, he could do far more to dismantle the Patriot Act than he’s doing or has indicated a willingness to do.

[meadandale]

[quote=TheBreeze]
So if Republicans and Democrats are the same, then there’s no reason to ever vote for another Republican again, right?
[/quote]

Or another Democrat….

[meadandale]

[quote=TheBreeze]
So if Republicans and Democrats are the same, then there’s no reason to ever vote for another Republican again, right?
[/quote]

Or another Democrat….

[meadandale]

[quote=TheBreeze]
So if Republicans and Democrats are the same, then there’s no reason to ever vote for another Republican again, right?
[/quote]

Or another Democrat….

[meadandale]

[quote=TheBreeze]
So if Republicans and Democrats are the same, then there’s no reason to ever vote for another Republican again, right?
[/quote]

Or another Democrat….

[meadandale]

[quote=TheBreeze]
So if Republicans and Democrats are the same, then there’s no reason to ever vote for another Republican again, right?
[/quote]

Or another Democrat….

[TheBreeze]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Breeze: Still getting your facts together? Let’s continue along with your “Obama is rebuking Bush’s policies” argument (although that word is a mite strong, giving that you haven’t provided any evidence to support it).

So here’s a couple of tidbits from my end that refute your assertion.

1) Keeping Robert Gates on as SecDef. According to no less a liberal luminary than Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of The Nation, “Not a single member of Obama’s foreign policy and national defense team opposed the war”, adding “Gates is a terrible pick”,

2) Selection of Dennis Ross as Administration point man on Iran. Robert Naiman, analyst for Just Foreign Policy group (center-left politically) feels that this appointment “might just set the stage for war with Iraq”,

3) And, my personal favorite: Dick Cheney suggested a meeting with Obama to discuss Gitmo and “to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and why we did it”, which Obama (and I quote) “thought was very good advice”.

In the immortal words of The Who: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

Can’t wait for your spin on this.[/quote]

Allan, Allan, Allan. This is no longer the Bush era. Unlike Bush, Obama isn’t going to take orders from his supplicants.

In the Bush administration, the President’s Cabinet pretty much ran amok and did whatever they pleased. In Obama’s Cabinet, the vision, strategery, and orders will come from Obama. His supplicants will be responsible for carrying out Obama’s vision. Not the other way around.

Yes, Obama kept on some of Bush’s Cabinet for the sake of continuity. Obama has already ordered that 22,000 Marines be redeployed from Iraq to Afghanistan:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/01/its-time-for-ma.html

Bush would have never ordered Marines from the “Central Front” (Iraq) in the “War on Terror”.

Obama is indeed rebuking Bush policies, but it will take time. You can’t turn a beast like a United States on a dime. Give him time. Soon Bush will be a distant memory and America will once again be a great country.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Breeze: Still getting your facts together? Let’s continue along with your “Obama is rebuking Bush’s policies” argument (although that word is a mite strong, giving that you haven’t provided any evidence to support it).

So here’s a couple of tidbits from my end that refute your assertion.

1) Keeping Robert Gates on as SecDef. According to no less a liberal luminary than Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of The Nation, “Not a single member of Obama’s foreign policy and national defense team opposed the war”, adding “Gates is a terrible pick”,

2) Selection of Dennis Ross as Administration point man on Iran. Robert Naiman, analyst for Just Foreign Policy group (center-left politically) feels that this appointment “might just set the stage for war with Iraq”,

3) And, my personal favorite: Dick Cheney suggested a meeting with Obama to discuss Gitmo and “to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and why we did it”, which Obama (and I quote) “thought was very good advice”.

In the immortal words of The Who: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

Can’t wait for your spin on this.[/quote]

Allan, Allan, Allan. This is no longer the Bush era. Unlike Bush, Obama isn’t going to take orders from his supplicants.

In the Bush administration, the President’s Cabinet pretty much ran amok and did whatever they pleased. In Obama’s Cabinet, the vision, strategery, and orders will come from Obama. His supplicants will be responsible for carrying out Obama’s vision. Not the other way around.

Yes, Obama kept on some of Bush’s Cabinet for the sake of continuity. Obama has already ordered that 22,000 Marines be redeployed from Iraq to Afghanistan:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/01/its-time-for-ma.html

Bush would have never ordered Marines from the “Central Front” (Iraq) in the “War on Terror”.

Obama is indeed rebuking Bush policies, but it will take time. You can’t turn a beast like a United States on a dime. Give him time. Soon Bush will be a distant memory and America will once again be a great country.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Breeze: Still getting your facts together? Let’s continue along with your “Obama is rebuking Bush’s policies” argument (although that word is a mite strong, giving that you haven’t provided any evidence to support it).

So here’s a couple of tidbits from my end that refute your assertion.

1) Keeping Robert Gates on as SecDef. According to no less a liberal luminary than Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of The Nation, “Not a single member of Obama’s foreign policy and national defense team opposed the war”, adding “Gates is a terrible pick”,

2) Selection of Dennis Ross as Administration point man on Iran. Robert Naiman, analyst for Just Foreign Policy group (center-left politically) feels that this appointment “might just set the stage for war with Iraq”,

3) And, my personal favorite: Dick Cheney suggested a meeting with Obama to discuss Gitmo and “to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and why we did it”, which Obama (and I quote) “thought was very good advice”.

In the immortal words of The Who: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

Can’t wait for your spin on this.[/quote]

Allan, Allan, Allan. This is no longer the Bush era. Unlike Bush, Obama isn’t going to take orders from his supplicants.

In the Bush administration, the President’s Cabinet pretty much ran amok and did whatever they pleased. In Obama’s Cabinet, the vision, strategery, and orders will come from Obama. His supplicants will be responsible for carrying out Obama’s vision. Not the other way around.

Yes, Obama kept on some of Bush’s Cabinet for the sake of continuity. Obama has already ordered that 22,000 Marines be redeployed from Iraq to Afghanistan:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/01/its-time-for-ma.html

Bush would have never ordered Marines from the “Central Front” (Iraq) in the “War on Terror”.

Obama is indeed rebuking Bush policies, but it will take time. You can’t turn a beast like a United States on a dime. Give him time. Soon Bush will be a distant memory and America will once again be a great country.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Breeze: Still getting your facts together? Let’s continue along with your “Obama is rebuking Bush’s policies” argument (although that word is a mite strong, giving that you haven’t provided any evidence to support it).

So here’s a couple of tidbits from my end that refute your assertion.

1) Keeping Robert Gates on as SecDef. According to no less a liberal luminary than Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of The Nation, “Not a single member of Obama’s foreign policy and national defense team opposed the war”, adding “Gates is a terrible pick”,

2) Selection of Dennis Ross as Administration point man on Iran. Robert Naiman, analyst for Just Foreign Policy group (center-left politically) feels that this appointment “might just set the stage for war with Iraq”,

3) And, my personal favorite: Dick Cheney suggested a meeting with Obama to discuss Gitmo and “to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and why we did it”, which Obama (and I quote) “thought was very good advice”.

In the immortal words of The Who: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

Can’t wait for your spin on this.[/quote]

Allan, Allan, Allan. This is no longer the Bush era. Unlike Bush, Obama isn’t going to take orders from his supplicants.

In the Bush administration, the President’s Cabinet pretty much ran amok and did whatever they pleased. In Obama’s Cabinet, the vision, strategery, and orders will come from Obama. His supplicants will be responsible for carrying out Obama’s vision. Not the other way around.

Yes, Obama kept on some of Bush’s Cabinet for the sake of continuity. Obama has already ordered that 22,000 Marines be redeployed from Iraq to Afghanistan:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/01/its-time-for-ma.html

Bush would have never ordered Marines from the “Central Front” (Iraq) in the “War on Terror”.

Obama is indeed rebuking Bush policies, but it will take time. You can’t turn a beast like a United States on a dime. Give him time. Soon Bush will be a distant memory and America will once again be a great country.

[Author]

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