OT: “Obama Orders Pakistan Drone Attacks”

[Veritas]

Re drone attacks:”And when he cried the little children died in the streets.”

[Allan from Fallbrook]

afx: “Trade follows the flag”. It’s been true since the Roman Empire and it remains true today.

I was not trying to conflate Bush with Obama (regarding your Obama = Bush remark), but the recent Presidents (Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43 and now Obama) are all working off of the same playbook.

I know Breezie doesn’t want to hear this, but Clinton was involved in destroying our civil liberties, too (NSA Carnivore/Echelon programs, FISA). Obama supports FISA and even reversed his position during the campaign on the issue. Do you think that the Patriot Act will be going away during his tenure? I don’t.

While I applaud his decision to close Gitmo, he will undoubtedly continue the policy of extraordinary rendition (started during the Clinton Administration, by the way), and continue to prosecute the War on Terror following the same guidelines as set down during the Bush Administration.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

afx: “Trade follows the flag”. It’s been true since the Roman Empire and it remains true today.

I was not trying to conflate Bush with Obama (regarding your Obama = Bush remark), but the recent Presidents (Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43 and now Obama) are all working off of the same playbook.

I know Breezie doesn’t want to hear this, but Clinton was involved in destroying our civil liberties, too (NSA Carnivore/Echelon programs, FISA). Obama supports FISA and even reversed his position during the campaign on the issue. Do you think that the Patriot Act will be going away during his tenure? I don’t.

While I applaud his decision to close Gitmo, he will undoubtedly continue the policy of extraordinary rendition (started during the Clinton Administration, by the way), and continue to prosecute the War on Terror following the same guidelines as set down during the Bush Administration.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

afx: “Trade follows the flag”. It’s been true since the Roman Empire and it remains true today.

I was not trying to conflate Bush with Obama (regarding your Obama = Bush remark), but the recent Presidents (Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43 and now Obama) are all working off of the same playbook.

I know Breezie doesn’t want to hear this, but Clinton was involved in destroying our civil liberties, too (NSA Carnivore/Echelon programs, FISA). Obama supports FISA and even reversed his position during the campaign on the issue. Do you think that the Patriot Act will be going away during his tenure? I don’t.

While I applaud his decision to close Gitmo, he will undoubtedly continue the policy of extraordinary rendition (started during the Clinton Administration, by the way), and continue to prosecute the War on Terror following the same guidelines as set down during the Bush Administration.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

afx: “Trade follows the flag”. It’s been true since the Roman Empire and it remains true today.

I was not trying to conflate Bush with Obama (regarding your Obama = Bush remark), but the recent Presidents (Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43 and now Obama) are all working off of the same playbook.

I know Breezie doesn’t want to hear this, but Clinton was involved in destroying our civil liberties, too (NSA Carnivore/Echelon programs, FISA). Obama supports FISA and even reversed his position during the campaign on the issue. Do you think that the Patriot Act will be going away during his tenure? I don’t.

While I applaud his decision to close Gitmo, he will undoubtedly continue the policy of extraordinary rendition (started during the Clinton Administration, by the way), and continue to prosecute the War on Terror following the same guidelines as set down during the Bush Administration.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

afx: “Trade follows the flag”. It’s been true since the Roman Empire and it remains true today.

I was not trying to conflate Bush with Obama (regarding your Obama = Bush remark), but the recent Presidents (Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43 and now Obama) are all working off of the same playbook.

I know Breezie doesn’t want to hear this, but Clinton was involved in destroying our civil liberties, too (NSA Carnivore/Echelon programs, FISA). Obama supports FISA and even reversed his position during the campaign on the issue. Do you think that the Patriot Act will be going away during his tenure? I don’t.

While I applaud his decision to close Gitmo, he will undoubtedly continue the policy of extraordinary rendition (started during the Clinton Administration, by the way), and continue to prosecute the War on Terror following the same guidelines as set down during the Bush Administration.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Breeze: Still getting your facts together? Let’s continue along with your “Obama is rebuking Bush’s policies” argument (although that word is a mite strong, giving that you haven’t provided any evidence to support it).

So here’s a couple of tidbits from my end that refute your assertion.

1) Keeping Robert Gates on as SecDef. According to no less a liberal luminary than Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of The Nation, “Not a single member of Obama’s foreign policy and national defense team opposed the war”, adding “Gates is a terrible pick”,

2) Selection of Dennis Ross as Administration point man on Iran. Robert Naiman, analyst for Just Foreign Policy group (center-left politically) feels that this appointment “might just set the stage for war with Iraq”,

3) And, my personal favorite: Dick Cheney suggested a meeting with Obama to discuss Gitmo and “to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and why we did it”, which Obama (and I quote) “thought was very good advice”.

In the immortal words of The Who: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

Can’t wait for your spin on this.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Breeze: Still getting your facts together? Let’s continue along with your “Obama is rebuking Bush’s policies” argument (although that word is a mite strong, giving that you haven’t provided any evidence to support it).

So here’s a couple of tidbits from my end that refute your assertion.

1) Keeping Robert Gates on as SecDef. According to no less a liberal luminary than Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of The Nation, “Not a single member of Obama’s foreign policy and national defense team opposed the war”, adding “Gates is a terrible pick”,

2) Selection of Dennis Ross as Administration point man on Iran. Robert Naiman, analyst for Just Foreign Policy group (center-left politically) feels that this appointment “might just set the stage for war with Iraq”,

3) And, my personal favorite: Dick Cheney suggested a meeting with Obama to discuss Gitmo and “to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and why we did it”, which Obama (and I quote) “thought was very good advice”.

In the immortal words of The Who: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

Can’t wait for your spin on this.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Breeze: Still getting your facts together? Let’s continue along with your “Obama is rebuking Bush’s policies” argument (although that word is a mite strong, giving that you haven’t provided any evidence to support it).

So here’s a couple of tidbits from my end that refute your assertion.

1) Keeping Robert Gates on as SecDef. According to no less a liberal luminary than Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of The Nation, “Not a single member of Obama’s foreign policy and national defense team opposed the war”, adding “Gates is a terrible pick”,

2) Selection of Dennis Ross as Administration point man on Iran. Robert Naiman, analyst for Just Foreign Policy group (center-left politically) feels that this appointment “might just set the stage for war with Iraq”,

3) And, my personal favorite: Dick Cheney suggested a meeting with Obama to discuss Gitmo and “to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and why we did it”, which Obama (and I quote) “thought was very good advice”.

In the immortal words of The Who: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

Can’t wait for your spin on this.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Breeze: Still getting your facts together? Let’s continue along with your “Obama is rebuking Bush’s policies” argument (although that word is a mite strong, giving that you haven’t provided any evidence to support it).

So here’s a couple of tidbits from my end that refute your assertion.

1) Keeping Robert Gates on as SecDef. According to no less a liberal luminary than Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of The Nation, “Not a single member of Obama’s foreign policy and national defense team opposed the war”, adding “Gates is a terrible pick”,

2) Selection of Dennis Ross as Administration point man on Iran. Robert Naiman, analyst for Just Foreign Policy group (center-left politically) feels that this appointment “might just set the stage for war with Iraq”,

3) And, my personal favorite: Dick Cheney suggested a meeting with Obama to discuss Gitmo and “to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and why we did it”, which Obama (and I quote) “thought was very good advice”.

In the immortal words of The Who: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

Can’t wait for your spin on this.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Breeze: Still getting your facts together? Let’s continue along with your “Obama is rebuking Bush’s policies” argument (although that word is a mite strong, giving that you haven’t provided any evidence to support it).

So here’s a couple of tidbits from my end that refute your assertion.

1) Keeping Robert Gates on as SecDef. According to no less a liberal luminary than Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of The Nation, “Not a single member of Obama’s foreign policy and national defense team opposed the war”, adding “Gates is a terrible pick”,

2) Selection of Dennis Ross as Administration point man on Iran. Robert Naiman, analyst for Just Foreign Policy group (center-left politically) feels that this appointment “might just set the stage for war with Iraq”,

3) And, my personal favorite: Dick Cheney suggested a meeting with Obama to discuss Gitmo and “to sit down and find out precisely what it is we did and why we did it”, which Obama (and I quote) “thought was very good advice”.

In the immortal words of The Who: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

Can’t wait for your spin on this.

[afx114]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Obama supports FISA and even reversed his position during the campaign on the issue. Do you think that the Patriot Act will be going away during his tenure? I don’t.
[/quote]

This is my biggest disappointment in Obama so far. My only consolation is the belief that the Patriot Act will be slowly dismantled in the same way the right is trying to take down Roe. Death by a thousand cuts. A more transparent and open administration is a good first step, even if it doesn’t yet directly apply to things like FISA and rendition. My hope is that we’ll see a domino effect where some of the bigger things like FISA begin to weaken as a result of some of these initial orders.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]While I applaud his decision to close Gitmo, he will undoubtedly continue the policy of extraordinary rendition (started during the Clinton Administration, by the way), and continue to prosecute the War on Terror following the same guidelines as set down during the Bush Administration.[/quote]

I don’t quite agree with you here. The order to close Gitmo also included wording to shut down additional “secret overseas CIA prisons,” whatever that means. Of course this could only apply to the prisons that we actually know about — but then again, those wouldn’t be “secret” then, would they? Who knows if this also includes a ban on “outsourcing” to torture-friendly states. I guess we’ll just have to see, but at least it’s a good first step.

[afx114]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Obama supports FISA and even reversed his position during the campaign on the issue. Do you think that the Patriot Act will be going away during his tenure? I don’t.
[/quote]

This is my biggest disappointment in Obama so far. My only consolation is the belief that the Patriot Act will be slowly dismantled in the same way the right is trying to take down Roe. Death by a thousand cuts. A more transparent and open administration is a good first step, even if it doesn’t yet directly apply to things like FISA and rendition. My hope is that we’ll see a domino effect where some of the bigger things like FISA begin to weaken as a result of some of these initial orders.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]While I applaud his decision to close Gitmo, he will undoubtedly continue the policy of extraordinary rendition (started during the Clinton Administration, by the way), and continue to prosecute the War on Terror following the same guidelines as set down during the Bush Administration.[/quote]

I don’t quite agree with you here. The order to close Gitmo also included wording to shut down additional “secret overseas CIA prisons,” whatever that means. Of course this could only apply to the prisons that we actually know about — but then again, those wouldn’t be “secret” then, would they? Who knows if this also includes a ban on “outsourcing” to torture-friendly states. I guess we’ll just have to see, but at least it’s a good first step.

[afx114]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Obama supports FISA and even reversed his position during the campaign on the issue. Do you think that the Patriot Act will be going away during his tenure? I don’t.
[/quote]

This is my biggest disappointment in Obama so far. My only consolation is the belief that the Patriot Act will be slowly dismantled in the same way the right is trying to take down Roe. Death by a thousand cuts. A more transparent and open administration is a good first step, even if it doesn’t yet directly apply to things like FISA and rendition. My hope is that we’ll see a domino effect where some of the bigger things like FISA begin to weaken as a result of some of these initial orders.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]While I applaud his decision to close Gitmo, he will undoubtedly continue the policy of extraordinary rendition (started during the Clinton Administration, by the way), and continue to prosecute the War on Terror following the same guidelines as set down during the Bush Administration.[/quote]

I don’t quite agree with you here. The order to close Gitmo also included wording to shut down additional “secret overseas CIA prisons,” whatever that means. Of course this could only apply to the prisons that we actually know about — but then again, those wouldn’t be “secret” then, would they? Who knows if this also includes a ban on “outsourcing” to torture-friendly states. I guess we’ll just have to see, but at least it’s a good first step.

[afx114]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Obama supports FISA and even reversed his position during the campaign on the issue. Do you think that the Patriot Act will be going away during his tenure? I don’t.
[/quote]

This is my biggest disappointment in Obama so far. My only consolation is the belief that the Patriot Act will be slowly dismantled in the same way the right is trying to take down Roe. Death by a thousand cuts. A more transparent and open administration is a good first step, even if it doesn’t yet directly apply to things like FISA and rendition. My hope is that we’ll see a domino effect where some of the bigger things like FISA begin to weaken as a result of some of these initial orders.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]While I applaud his decision to close Gitmo, he will undoubtedly continue the policy of extraordinary rendition (started during the Clinton Administration, by the way), and continue to prosecute the War on Terror following the same guidelines as set down during the Bush Administration.[/quote]

I don’t quite agree with you here. The order to close Gitmo also included wording to shut down additional “secret overseas CIA prisons,” whatever that means. Of course this could only apply to the prisons that we actually know about — but then again, those wouldn’t be “secret” then, would they? Who knows if this also includes a ban on “outsourcing” to torture-friendly states. I guess we’ll just have to see, but at least it’s a good first step.

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