middle school logic

[zk]

[quote=flyer]No question there, Blogstar.

As far as the meaning of my post. After reading it again, I can see how it does sound abstract, even OT, but this discussion reminded me of some experiences we’ve had concerning people with attitudes, as have been mentioned in this thread.

I was actually thinking of how we have had friends over the years, some with very “in your face” attitudes concerning their elevated financial status when, in fact, in the end, that proved not to be the case.

These families carried on the charade as long as they could, until they found themselves with no way out, and there were no happy endings. In fact, some were tragic.

Since then, I’ve theorized that if a mechanism, such as the transparency concept had been in place, perhaps they would not have been tempted to fabricate their wealth to such a ridiculous level. (I know this is a stretch, but you never know–it might have helped.)

In these cases false “attitudes” simply kept these people from facing the truth about their circumstances, until it was too late to recover.
An interesting study in human nature.[/quote]

All this assumes that people judge others by their financial status. I don’t think that people judge each other that way as much as you (and the jackass in your story) would like to think they do. Most people are aware that the douchebag/good guy ratio is no different for rich people, middle class people, and poor people. In fact, anybody who is “in your face” about their claimed “elevated financial status” is going to be immediately judged by most as a douchebag, and nobody will really care whether he’s actually rich or not.

[NotCranky]

[quote=outtamojo][quote=Blogstar]Yesterday I was at the gym with my eight year old son. We walked around the pool area looking for a man to do the swim portion of and upcoming triathlon relay. My son couldn’t believe I was going to walk up to complete strangers introduce myself and ask if they wanted to do the swim. I did it though, had a few nice conversations, that is an initiation. Of course, if they didn’t wan’t to do it, I said thanks anyway lil’ bitch.[/quote]

Not supposed to talk that way to strangers ( the lil bitch part). My son and the other kid had more history than that.
I can see now how new this is to you.[/quote]

Not new to this at all. I went to middle school from the wrong side of the tracks in the wrong kind of town. I spent 6 years as an enlisted man in the Navy and worked in construction after. I have been on plenty of sports teams. I have two middle school boys beside the 8 year old. I don’t see the lil’ bitch and other stuff as constructive. Common yes, forgivable yes, not that big of a deal in many circumstances, all true.
I can understand your wanting to discredit my perspective though. For whatever reason , you think it will help your kid. If anyone is new to it , that’s you, after all you started a thread on Piggington’s about basic stuff.

[zk]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=outtamojo][quote=Blogstar]Yesterday I was at the gym with my eight year old son. We walked around the pool area looking for a man to do the swim portion of and upcoming triathlon relay. My son couldn’t believe I was going to walk up to complete strangers introduce myself and ask if they wanted to do the swim. I did it though, had a few nice conversations, that is an initiation. Of course, if they didn’t wan’t to do it, I said thanks anyway lil’ bitch.[/quote]

Not supposed to talk that way to strangers ( the lil bitch part). My son and the other kid had more history than that.
I can see now how new this is to you.[/quote]

Not new to this at all. I went to middle school from the wrong side of the tracks in the wrong kind of town. I spent 6 years as an enlisted man in the Navy and worked in construction after. I have been on plenty of sports teams. I have two middle school boys beside the 8 year old. I don’t see the lil’ bitch and other stuff as constructive. Common yes, forgivable yes, not that big of a deal in many circumstances, all true.
I can understand your wanting to discredit my perspective though. For whatever reason , you think it will help your kid. If anyone is new to it , that’s you, after all you started a thread on Piggington’s about basic stuff.[/quote]

I wonder if there’s some miscommunication/confusion here. outtamojo seems to be under the impression that you actually, out loud, and in front of your son, said to people you’d just met and who had just declined to swim a long distance, “thanks anyway, lil bitch.” Because you wrote that that’s what you said. But that goes against everything you’ve been saying on this thread. What gives?

[outtamojo]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=outtamojo][quote=Blogstar]Yesterday I was at the gym with my eight year old son. We walked around the pool area looking for a man to do the swim portion of and upcoming triathlon relay. My son couldn’t believe I was going to walk up to complete strangers introduce myself and ask if they wanted to do the swim. I did it though, had a few nice conversations, that is an initiation. Of course, if they didn’t wan’t to do it, I said thanks anyway lil’ bitch.[/quote]

Not supposed to talk that way to strangers ( the lil bitch part). My son and the other kid had more history than that.
I can see now how new this is to you.[/quote]

Not new to this at all. I went to middle school from the wrong side of the tracks in the wrong kind of town. I spent 6 years as an enlisted man in the Navy and worked in construction after. I have been on plenty of sports teams. I have two middle school boys beside the 8 year old. I don’t see the lil’ bitch and other stuff as constructive. Common yes, forgivable yes, not that big of a deal in many circumstances, all true.
I can understand your wanting to discredit my perspective though. For whatever reason , you think it will help your kid. If anyone is new to it , that’s you, after all you started a thread on Piggington’s about basic stuff.[/quote]

As Andrew Luck would say, thank you for your kindness.

[NotCranky]

[quote=outtamojo][quote=Blogstar][quote=outtamojo][quote=Blogstar]Yesterday I was at the gym with my eight year old son. We walked around the pool area looking for a man to do the swim portion of and upcoming triathlon relay. My son couldn’t believe I was going to walk up to complete strangers introduce myself and ask if they wanted to do the swim. I did it though, had a few nice conversations, that is an initiation. Of course, if they didn’t wan’t to do it, I said thanks anyway lil’ bitch.[/quote]

Not supposed to talk that way to strangers ( the lil bitch part). My son and the other kid had more history than that.
I can see now how new this is to you.[/quote]

Not new to this at all. I went to middle school from the wrong side of the tracks in the wrong kind of town. I spent 6 years as an enlisted man in the Navy and worked in construction after. I have been on plenty of sports teams. I have two middle school boys beside the 8 year old. I don’t see the lil’ bitch and other stuff as constructive. Common yes, forgivable yes, not that big of a deal in many circumstances, all true.
I can understand your wanting to discredit my perspective though. For whatever reason , you think it will help your kid. If anyone is new to it , that’s you, after all you started a thread on Piggington’s about basic stuff.[/quote]

As Andrew Luck would say, thank you for your kindness.[/quo

You are more than very welcome.

[NotCranky]

[quote=zk][quote=Blogstar][quote=outtamojo][quote=Blogstar]Yesterday I was at the gym with my eight year old son. We walked around the pool area looking for a man to do the swim portion of and upcoming triathlon relay. My son couldn’t believe I was going to walk up to complete strangers introduce myself and ask if they wanted to do the swim. I did it though, had a few nice conversations, that is an initiation. Of course, if they didn’t wan’t to do it, I said thanks anyway lil’ bitch.[/quote]

Not supposed to talk that way to strangers ( the lil bitch part). My son and the other kid had more history than that.
I can see now how new this is to you.[/quote]

Not new to this at all. I went to middle school from the wrong side of the tracks in the wrong kind of town. I spent 6 years as an enlisted man in the Navy and worked in construction after. I have been on plenty of sports teams. I have two middle school boys beside the 8 year old. I don’t see the lil’ bitch and other stuff as constructive. Common yes, forgivable yes, not that big of a deal in many circumstances, all true.
I can understand your wanting to discredit my perspective though. For whatever reason , you think it will help your kid. If anyone is new to it , that’s you, after all you started a thread on Piggington’s about basic stuff.[/quote]

I wonder if there’s some miscommunication/confusion here. outtamojo seems to be under the impression that you actually, out loud, and in front of your son, said to people you’d just met and who had just declined to swim a long distance, “thanks anyway, lil bitch.” Because you wrote that that’s what you said. But that goes against everything you’ve been saying on this thread. What gives?[/quote]
It was a joke, I didn’t say it. I didn’t suspect Out of Mojo would think I said it, missed it if he did. Where is it appropriate to use little bitch constructively in the adult world, that’s what I am addressing.

[FlyerInHi]

Shit talking is usually one-way. Some people think that kidding around is cute, harmless and endearing, but they can’t take what they dish out. That’s where pecking order comes in.

I have a friend of over 25 year whom I don’t talk to much anymore. Calls me “perfect ‘lil bitch”. He doesn’t like it when I call him “fat ass.” Like “Hey, “your fat ass actually did the laundry?”

Rejecting people who are rough around the edges is part of civilization itself. We give up cavemen behavior for the rule of law and lawyers.

[NotCranky]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Shit talking is usually one-way. Some people think that kidding around is cute, harmless and endearing, but they can’t take what they dish out. That’s where pecking order comes in.

I have a friend of over 25 year whom I don’t talk to much anymore. Calls me “perfect ‘lil bitch”. He doesn’t like it when I call him “fat ass.” Like “Hey, “your fat ass actually did the laundry?”

Rejecting people who are rough around the edges is part of civilization itself. We give up cavemen behavior for the rule of law and lawyers.[/quote]

The caveman behavior is part not the whole person. Just like rich people thinking they are special is just part of the whole person. It doesn’t necessarily make them reprehensible ,it just looks bad. It’s hard for each to see his differently economically endowed counterpart in this light…black and white is better to each. Unless ,of course, they have a good education. Brian, you know Mexican people , so think about it in the way they use “mal educado”. It has nothing to do with degrees or money.

[NotCranky]

Interesting take on South Park.

http://blogcritics.org/south-park-is-inappropriate-for-young/

[flyer]

I think the bottom line is that everyone wants their kids to have the best lives possible, and each kid will have different issues that need to be worked out in order for them to get to that point.

When we were raising our three kids, we didn’t have the issue currently being discussed, but we had others that could have derailed them, had we not dealt with them along the way.

We, and our friends who were raising kids at the same time, learned that you won’t really know if you did the right thing or not until you see how your kids function out in the world later in life, but all you can do is try. The good news is a lot of them turn out to be pretty great.

[no_such_reality]

That’s the challenge for us men. How to raise boys that will be men. Walk the line between not being a bully and not being a patsy.

When confronted with a bully, will stand up to the bully, but with the decency to walk away from slights, and brains to get away when outright dangerous without in turn being the bully or relying on their fists to solve disagreements.

We now get to do this in an ever more hostile environment for typical boy behavior and a PC realm that talks about ‘microaggressions’, while the rest of world deals with the reality of Putin, Assad and ISIS…

[scaredyclassic]

where does confidence come from?  Does it just spring spontaneously  from kind treatment by parents?  No.  It comes from a kid’s actual proven ability to successfully, independently navigate the real, unmonitored world, and to compete and belong. This is something I was sorely lacking in for many, many years, and just started to gather in small quantities in my forties….  Other men perceived me, correctly, as “weird”, or “off”, or maybe feminine or weak or overly intellectual.  Probably just plain weird.  What they were probably smelling was lack of confidence, lack of ability to talk to other men in a way they could recognize as self-assured.  The crudity of the language is irrelevant.  You are in for a lot of misery in this life if you expect the world to be or play nice, to be fair or to treat you gently.  Acting in that way does not make it so.   teaching your kid to always “act nice” is absurd advice for navigating reality.  Toughen up, little guy!  I also dispute that this is a “male” problem”.  It takes two to tango.  If women weren’t attracted to dominance, power and aggression, I’m confident you’d see less of it in men.  When romantic heroes in romance novels are softspoken gentle bureaucrats with pale soft arms  who treat people nicely and play fairly according to rules, perhaps you will see a shift in schoolyard behavior.  Until then, grow a pair; jeez louise…..

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic]where does confidence come from?  Does it just spring spontaneously  from kind treatment by parents?  No.  It comes from a kid’s actual proven ability to successfully, independently navigate the real, unmonitored world, and to compete and belong. This is something I was sorely lacking in for many, many years, and just started to gather in small quantities in my forties….  Other men perceived me, correctly, as “weird”, or “off”, or maybe feminine or weak or overly intellectual.  Probably just plain weird.  What they were probably smelling was lack of confidence, lack of ability to talk to other men in a way they could recognize as self-assured.  The crudity of the language is irrelevant.  You are in for a lot of misery in this life if you expect the world to be or play nice, to be fair or to treat you gently.  Acting in that way does not make it so.   teaching your kid to always “act nice” is absurd advice for navigating reality.  Toughen up, little guy!  I also dispute that this is a “male” problem”.  It takes two to tango.  If women weren’t attracted to dominance, power and aggression, I’m confident you’d see less of it in men.  When romantic heroes in romance novels are softspoken gentle bureaucrats with pale soft arms  who treat people nicely and play fairly according to rules, perhaps you will see a shift in schoolyard behavior.  Until then, grow a pair; jeez louise…..[/quote]

Haha.. Your view is perhaps an old view.

Things are changing fast. Pretty soon most jobs will require degrees. Except for a few who make it in management, people with non-nerdy degrees won’t make as much money. And women are attracted to money.

Want respect? Make big bucks and you can say or do almost anything you want.
Elon Musk who was bullied as a kid is a big sex symbol. The muscled alpha males are perceived as unreliable and perhaps potential bitch slappers.

I guess I was lucky. When I was a kid, my younger brother punched a guy in the face defending me. When I was in my teens, my big bro who is older by 8 years taught me to toughen up. I’m thankful because I believe I’m more naturally wimpy.

Teach your kids to make money. It’s better than muscles or guns. Of course, it’s ideal to have it all.

[NotCranky]

Scaredy, I don’t recommend “nice” and never did. Nice might mean you are stuffing every bit of bullshit people give you. One can be patient and kind( not nice), or anyway something short of obnoxious, and defend themselves ,or walk away with dignity, in most normal situations. It doesn’t mean don’t tell people things they don’t like to hear , or ignore or deflect attempts to control you or any of that. If patient and reasonably kind doesn’t work, you might be dealing with a lunatic. So acting all bad is just going to be the old throwing fire on a flaming asshole, just makes the fire bigger. It can also get embarrassing , trust me.

Now when you really can’t get away or deflect violence then you have to fight physically, all my boys know this and I am still ready.

Really , if someone is out of control in an intolerably and inescapable oppressive way or dangerous way and you have the chance to do it , you probably need to get the cops or courts to help you. With kids they do need to get the help of adults sometimes.

I came from being too defensive a lot of the time. I have been overly passive in the face of other bad acts but not too often. I beat some kids up when I was a kid. They started it but they were doing stuff to other kids who avoided making much trauma out of it. I have been a loaner to avoid potential conflict but in the face of actual conflict I am rarely passive or “nice”.

So anyway, not everyone has your lopsided background. Well, I have never been an aggressor , but I have overreacted to it plenty. Some of us come from the other direction.Be careful you don’t get all excited calling people pussies and whatnot and get yourself in trouble.

[CA renter]

The drive to emphasize a person’s “masculinity” by engaging in rude or offensive behavior is interesting. Some of the most confident and masculine men I’ve ever known were absolutely not trash-talkers; they were kind, considerate, well-spoken people who knew when to be considerate, and also knew when to get aggressive with bullies.

For whatever it’s worth, teach your son to keep the “yo mama” jokes to himself when around African-Americans. I attended a junior high school in L.A. where a majority of the students were bused in from downtown, so we had a student population that was majority African-American. Whenever a kid dared to say the words, “yo mama,” it was a sure bet that he was about to have his ass kicked from here to Mississippi. It was serious business and, oftentimes, multiple other kids would join in the beatings as other students would link arms and form concentric rings around the fights so that the administrators and teachers couldn’t intervene.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that your son might think he’s pretty smart, but if he utters the wrong words in front of the wrong people, it could easily get ugly.

The other kid was fully justified in telling his parents about your kid’s behavior. There are a whole lot of people in the world who would not be okay with these comments, even if they were made “in jest.”

It’s good that you’re concerned about it, and I know that you want to do the right by your kid. As someone already mentioned above, we no longer live in a society where the wife-beating asshole wins. Teach your son to socialize with all kinds of kids: older kids, younger kids, black, white, brown, rich, poor, smart, not-so-smart, etc., and teach him to make friends with girls, too! There is nothing worse than a grown man who’s never learned how to socialize with women (and vice-versa). It is a HUGE handicap in life.

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