do you know what the federal reserve is?

[davelj]

[quote=investor]
Davelj. Thank you for your reply. [/quote]

Happy to help out.

[quote=investor]
If you had read those 6 pages, you would find that they offer a detailed look at how the money flows into and out of the fed. Information that is hard to find and the fact that it is hard to find is what is illuminating about this subject, that no-one knows this information. Information about the entire money supply of the USA. You don’t know this information, don’t even care to read it, ridicule the source and then insult me by saying that no-one here cares what I think. [/quote]

How the money flows into and out of the Fed is covered in most basic Money and Banking classes. (And, yes, I have a good understanding of the fundamentals – although admittedly I have not analyzed Griffin’s INTERPRETATION of the fundamentals. Reading every conspiratorial account regarding the Fed would take quite some time, I think you’d agree.) There are innumerable articles on the subject as well. (This is where you accuse me of intellectual dishonesty and/or laziness for not reproducing all of the relevant chapters and articles, right?) That you believe this Griffin and his acolytes are the only folks on the planet who understand the great mystery of “how it all fits together” is the height of arrogance and presumptuousness.

[quote=investor]
I usually ignore ignorant statements like these but in your case, I will respond. Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive and tends to stop intelligent discourse on any subject. I hope that your posts are not a reflection of the rest of your life because if it is, you are probably one angry, un-happy individual. good luck.[/quote]

“Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive… etc.” You cannot be serious. Are your feelings really that easily hurt? I had no idea that you were such a delicate flower, Oh Great Arbiter of What Constitutes Intelligent Discourse and What Does Not. Do you read what you write? Wowsers.

Actually, my posts are often a reflection of my life. But you wouldn’t know that because, well, you’ve been at this site for all of 4 months. I’ve been here for over 4 years. For better or worse, I have a pretty large body of work here at Piggington. So, you could choose to do a little due diligence before making such a blanket statement. Or not. At the end of the day, after all, it’s mind over matter. I don’t mind because you don’t matter. (I don’t matter, either, by the way. The only difference between us is that I KNOW I don’t matter. You clearly mistake yourself for relevant.)

Now, I’m sure you’re going to continue this dialogue with more of what only you define as Intelligent Discourse. Do continue to enlighten us all with your Great Wisdom, “investor.” In the meantime, I need to get back to being an “angry, un-happy [sic] individual.” Bah Humbug!!

[investor]

[quote=davelj][quote=investor]
Davelj. Thank you for your reply. [/quote]

Happy to help out.

[quote=investor]
If you had read those 6 pages, you would find that they offer a detailed look at how the money flows into and out of the fed. Information that is hard to find and the fact that it is hard to find is what is illuminating about this subject, that no-one knows this information. Information about the entire money supply of the USA. You don’t know this information, don’t even care to read it, ridicule the source and then insult me by saying that no-one here cares what I think. [/quote]

How the money flows into and out of the Fed is covered in most basic Money and Banking classes. (And, yes, I have a good understanding of the fundamentals – although admittedly I have not analyzed Griffin’s INTERPRETATION of the fundamentals. Reading every conspiratorial account regarding the Fed would take quite some time, I think you’d agree.) There are innumerable articles on the subject as well. (This is where you accuse me of intellectual dishonesty and/or laziness for not reproducing all of the relevant chapters and articles, right?) That you believe this Griffin and his acolytes are the only folks on the planet who understand the great mystery of “how it all fits together” is the height of arrogance and presumptuousness.

[quote=investor]
I usually ignore ignorant statements like these but in your case, I will respond. Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive and tends to stop intelligent discourse on any subject. I hope that your posts are not a reflection of the rest of your life because if it is, you are probably one angry, un-happy individual. good luck.[/quote]

“Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive… etc.” You cannot be serious. Are your feelings really that easily hurt? I had no idea that you were such a delicate flower, Oh Great Arbiter of What Constitutes Intelligent Discourse and What Does Not. Do you read what you write? Wowsers.

Actually, my posts are often a reflection of my life. But you wouldn’t know that because, well, you’ve been at this site for all of 4 months. I’ve been here for over 4 years. For better or worse, I have a pretty large body of work here at Piggington. So, you could choose to do a little due diligence before making such a blanket statement. Or not. At the end of the day, after all, it’s mind over matter. I don’t mind because you don’t matter. (I don’t matter, either, by the way. The only difference between us is that I KNOW I don’t matter. You clearly mistake yourself for relevant.)

Now, I’m sure you’re going to continue this dialogue with more of what only you define as Intelligent Discourse. Do continue to enlighten us all with your Great Wisdom, “investor.” In the meantime, I need to get back to being an “angry, un-happy [sic] individual.” Bah Humbug!![/quote]
Davelj. Well, I have been reading this site for about 5 years but I have only begun to enter threads recently. As far as the tone of your blogs.Lets say that we are at a social gathering. You meet someone for the first time and the discussion turns to the federal reserve. The person that you are talking to has a different opinion than you. That person then begins to tell you that you cannot seriously believe what you are saying, no-one would take you seriously and that your opinions are irrelevant. Oh, and he seems angry at you while he is saying this. All on the first meeting. What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again? Responding to blogs is similar in that you are interfacing with real people who do have feelings. Some level of etiquette should be followed, don’t you think? Now, for the topic at hand.I don’t think any economics books cover the cash flow through the fed well at all. Especially the in depth way that griffin does. I could be wrong as I have not read what you have. I have re-read my macro-economics book (Mankiw) who does not give a good explanation of how the money goes through the fed. I’ll make you a deal. You give me an economics book (with page numbers) that does explain how the money flows and I will read it. you borrow the griffin book (since I am sure you do not want to support his ridiculous book), read those 6 pages and then write back on this site to compare notes. Deal? (Also, my opinion does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)

[investor]

[quote=davelj][quote=investor]
Davelj. Thank you for your reply. [/quote]

Happy to help out.

[quote=investor]
If you had read those 6 pages, you would find that they offer a detailed look at how the money flows into and out of the fed. Information that is hard to find and the fact that it is hard to find is what is illuminating about this subject, that no-one knows this information. Information about the entire money supply of the USA. You don’t know this information, don’t even care to read it, ridicule the source and then insult me by saying that no-one here cares what I think. [/quote]

How the money flows into and out of the Fed is covered in most basic Money and Banking classes. (And, yes, I have a good understanding of the fundamentals – although admittedly I have not analyzed Griffin’s INTERPRETATION of the fundamentals. Reading every conspiratorial account regarding the Fed would take quite some time, I think you’d agree.) There are innumerable articles on the subject as well. (This is where you accuse me of intellectual dishonesty and/or laziness for not reproducing all of the relevant chapters and articles, right?) That you believe this Griffin and his acolytes are the only folks on the planet who understand the great mystery of “how it all fits together” is the height of arrogance and presumptuousness.

[quote=investor]
I usually ignore ignorant statements like these but in your case, I will respond. Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive and tends to stop intelligent discourse on any subject. I hope that your posts are not a reflection of the rest of your life because if it is, you are probably one angry, un-happy individual. good luck.[/quote]

“Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive… etc.” You cannot be serious. Are your feelings really that easily hurt? I had no idea that you were such a delicate flower, Oh Great Arbiter of What Constitutes Intelligent Discourse and What Does Not. Do you read what you write? Wowsers.

Actually, my posts are often a reflection of my life. But you wouldn’t know that because, well, you’ve been at this site for all of 4 months. I’ve been here for over 4 years. For better or worse, I have a pretty large body of work here at Piggington. So, you could choose to do a little due diligence before making such a blanket statement. Or not. At the end of the day, after all, it’s mind over matter. I don’t mind because you don’t matter. (I don’t matter, either, by the way. The only difference between us is that I KNOW I don’t matter. You clearly mistake yourself for relevant.)

Now, I’m sure you’re going to continue this dialogue with more of what only you define as Intelligent Discourse. Do continue to enlighten us all with your Great Wisdom, “investor.” In the meantime, I need to get back to being an “angry, un-happy [sic] individual.” Bah Humbug!![/quote]
Davelj. Well, I have been reading this site for about 5 years but I have only begun to enter threads recently. As far as the tone of your blogs.Lets say that we are at a social gathering. You meet someone for the first time and the discussion turns to the federal reserve. The person that you are talking to has a different opinion than you. That person then begins to tell you that you cannot seriously believe what you are saying, no-one would take you seriously and that your opinions are irrelevant. Oh, and he seems angry at you while he is saying this. All on the first meeting. What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again? Responding to blogs is similar in that you are interfacing with real people who do have feelings. Some level of etiquette should be followed, don’t you think? Now, for the topic at hand.I don’t think any economics books cover the cash flow through the fed well at all. Especially the in depth way that griffin does. I could be wrong as I have not read what you have. I have re-read my macro-economics book (Mankiw) who does not give a good explanation of how the money goes through the fed. I’ll make you a deal. You give me an economics book (with page numbers) that does explain how the money flows and I will read it. you borrow the griffin book (since I am sure you do not want to support his ridiculous book), read those 6 pages and then write back on this site to compare notes. Deal? (Also, my opinion does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)

[investor]

[quote=davelj][quote=investor]
Davelj. Thank you for your reply. [/quote]

Happy to help out.

[quote=investor]
If you had read those 6 pages, you would find that they offer a detailed look at how the money flows into and out of the fed. Information that is hard to find and the fact that it is hard to find is what is illuminating about this subject, that no-one knows this information. Information about the entire money supply of the USA. You don’t know this information, don’t even care to read it, ridicule the source and then insult me by saying that no-one here cares what I think. [/quote]

How the money flows into and out of the Fed is covered in most basic Money and Banking classes. (And, yes, I have a good understanding of the fundamentals – although admittedly I have not analyzed Griffin’s INTERPRETATION of the fundamentals. Reading every conspiratorial account regarding the Fed would take quite some time, I think you’d agree.) There are innumerable articles on the subject as well. (This is where you accuse me of intellectual dishonesty and/or laziness for not reproducing all of the relevant chapters and articles, right?) That you believe this Griffin and his acolytes are the only folks on the planet who understand the great mystery of “how it all fits together” is the height of arrogance and presumptuousness.

[quote=investor]
I usually ignore ignorant statements like these but in your case, I will respond. Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive and tends to stop intelligent discourse on any subject. I hope that your posts are not a reflection of the rest of your life because if it is, you are probably one angry, un-happy individual. good luck.[/quote]

“Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive… etc.” You cannot be serious. Are your feelings really that easily hurt? I had no idea that you were such a delicate flower, Oh Great Arbiter of What Constitutes Intelligent Discourse and What Does Not. Do you read what you write? Wowsers.

Actually, my posts are often a reflection of my life. But you wouldn’t know that because, well, you’ve been at this site for all of 4 months. I’ve been here for over 4 years. For better or worse, I have a pretty large body of work here at Piggington. So, you could choose to do a little due diligence before making such a blanket statement. Or not. At the end of the day, after all, it’s mind over matter. I don’t mind because you don’t matter. (I don’t matter, either, by the way. The only difference between us is that I KNOW I don’t matter. You clearly mistake yourself for relevant.)

Now, I’m sure you’re going to continue this dialogue with more of what only you define as Intelligent Discourse. Do continue to enlighten us all with your Great Wisdom, “investor.” In the meantime, I need to get back to being an “angry, un-happy [sic] individual.” Bah Humbug!![/quote]
Davelj. Well, I have been reading this site for about 5 years but I have only begun to enter threads recently. As far as the tone of your blogs.Lets say that we are at a social gathering. You meet someone for the first time and the discussion turns to the federal reserve. The person that you are talking to has a different opinion than you. That person then begins to tell you that you cannot seriously believe what you are saying, no-one would take you seriously and that your opinions are irrelevant. Oh, and he seems angry at you while he is saying this. All on the first meeting. What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again? Responding to blogs is similar in that you are interfacing with real people who do have feelings. Some level of etiquette should be followed, don’t you think? Now, for the topic at hand.I don’t think any economics books cover the cash flow through the fed well at all. Especially the in depth way that griffin does. I could be wrong as I have not read what you have. I have re-read my macro-economics book (Mankiw) who does not give a good explanation of how the money goes through the fed. I’ll make you a deal. You give me an economics book (with page numbers) that does explain how the money flows and I will read it. you borrow the griffin book (since I am sure you do not want to support his ridiculous book), read those 6 pages and then write back on this site to compare notes. Deal? (Also, my opinion does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)

[investor]

[quote=davelj][quote=investor]
Davelj. Thank you for your reply. [/quote]

Happy to help out.

[quote=investor]
If you had read those 6 pages, you would find that they offer a detailed look at how the money flows into and out of the fed. Information that is hard to find and the fact that it is hard to find is what is illuminating about this subject, that no-one knows this information. Information about the entire money supply of the USA. You don’t know this information, don’t even care to read it, ridicule the source and then insult me by saying that no-one here cares what I think. [/quote]

How the money flows into and out of the Fed is covered in most basic Money and Banking classes. (And, yes, I have a good understanding of the fundamentals – although admittedly I have not analyzed Griffin’s INTERPRETATION of the fundamentals. Reading every conspiratorial account regarding the Fed would take quite some time, I think you’d agree.) There are innumerable articles on the subject as well. (This is where you accuse me of intellectual dishonesty and/or laziness for not reproducing all of the relevant chapters and articles, right?) That you believe this Griffin and his acolytes are the only folks on the planet who understand the great mystery of “how it all fits together” is the height of arrogance and presumptuousness.

[quote=investor]
I usually ignore ignorant statements like these but in your case, I will respond. Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive and tends to stop intelligent discourse on any subject. I hope that your posts are not a reflection of the rest of your life because if it is, you are probably one angry, un-happy individual. good luck.[/quote]

“Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive… etc.” You cannot be serious. Are your feelings really that easily hurt? I had no idea that you were such a delicate flower, Oh Great Arbiter of What Constitutes Intelligent Discourse and What Does Not. Do you read what you write? Wowsers.

Actually, my posts are often a reflection of my life. But you wouldn’t know that because, well, you’ve been at this site for all of 4 months. I’ve been here for over 4 years. For better or worse, I have a pretty large body of work here at Piggington. So, you could choose to do a little due diligence before making such a blanket statement. Or not. At the end of the day, after all, it’s mind over matter. I don’t mind because you don’t matter. (I don’t matter, either, by the way. The only difference between us is that I KNOW I don’t matter. You clearly mistake yourself for relevant.)

Now, I’m sure you’re going to continue this dialogue with more of what only you define as Intelligent Discourse. Do continue to enlighten us all with your Great Wisdom, “investor.” In the meantime, I need to get back to being an “angry, un-happy [sic] individual.” Bah Humbug!![/quote]
Davelj. Well, I have been reading this site for about 5 years but I have only begun to enter threads recently. As far as the tone of your blogs.Lets say that we are at a social gathering. You meet someone for the first time and the discussion turns to the federal reserve. The person that you are talking to has a different opinion than you. That person then begins to tell you that you cannot seriously believe what you are saying, no-one would take you seriously and that your opinions are irrelevant. Oh, and he seems angry at you while he is saying this. All on the first meeting. What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again? Responding to blogs is similar in that you are interfacing with real people who do have feelings. Some level of etiquette should be followed, don’t you think? Now, for the topic at hand.I don’t think any economics books cover the cash flow through the fed well at all. Especially the in depth way that griffin does. I could be wrong as I have not read what you have. I have re-read my macro-economics book (Mankiw) who does not give a good explanation of how the money goes through the fed. I’ll make you a deal. You give me an economics book (with page numbers) that does explain how the money flows and I will read it. you borrow the griffin book (since I am sure you do not want to support his ridiculous book), read those 6 pages and then write back on this site to compare notes. Deal? (Also, my opinion does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)

[investor]

[quote=davelj][quote=investor]
Davelj. Thank you for your reply. [/quote]

Happy to help out.

[quote=investor]
If you had read those 6 pages, you would find that they offer a detailed look at how the money flows into and out of the fed. Information that is hard to find and the fact that it is hard to find is what is illuminating about this subject, that no-one knows this information. Information about the entire money supply of the USA. You don’t know this information, don’t even care to read it, ridicule the source and then insult me by saying that no-one here cares what I think. [/quote]

How the money flows into and out of the Fed is covered in most basic Money and Banking classes. (And, yes, I have a good understanding of the fundamentals – although admittedly I have not analyzed Griffin’s INTERPRETATION of the fundamentals. Reading every conspiratorial account regarding the Fed would take quite some time, I think you’d agree.) There are innumerable articles on the subject as well. (This is where you accuse me of intellectual dishonesty and/or laziness for not reproducing all of the relevant chapters and articles, right?) That you believe this Griffin and his acolytes are the only folks on the planet who understand the great mystery of “how it all fits together” is the height of arrogance and presumptuousness.

[quote=investor]
I usually ignore ignorant statements like these but in your case, I will respond. Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive and tends to stop intelligent discourse on any subject. I hope that your posts are not a reflection of the rest of your life because if it is, you are probably one angry, un-happy individual. good luck.[/quote]

“Please do not respond to any further posts that I make as your input is not positive… etc.” You cannot be serious. Are your feelings really that easily hurt? I had no idea that you were such a delicate flower, Oh Great Arbiter of What Constitutes Intelligent Discourse and What Does Not. Do you read what you write? Wowsers.

Actually, my posts are often a reflection of my life. But you wouldn’t know that because, well, you’ve been at this site for all of 4 months. I’ve been here for over 4 years. For better or worse, I have a pretty large body of work here at Piggington. So, you could choose to do a little due diligence before making such a blanket statement. Or not. At the end of the day, after all, it’s mind over matter. I don’t mind because you don’t matter. (I don’t matter, either, by the way. The only difference between us is that I KNOW I don’t matter. You clearly mistake yourself for relevant.)

Now, I’m sure you’re going to continue this dialogue with more of what only you define as Intelligent Discourse. Do continue to enlighten us all with your Great Wisdom, “investor.” In the meantime, I need to get back to being an “angry, un-happy [sic] individual.” Bah Humbug!![/quote]
Davelj. Well, I have been reading this site for about 5 years but I have only begun to enter threads recently. As far as the tone of your blogs.Lets say that we are at a social gathering. You meet someone for the first time and the discussion turns to the federal reserve. The person that you are talking to has a different opinion than you. That person then begins to tell you that you cannot seriously believe what you are saying, no-one would take you seriously and that your opinions are irrelevant. Oh, and he seems angry at you while he is saying this. All on the first meeting. What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again? Responding to blogs is similar in that you are interfacing with real people who do have feelings. Some level of etiquette should be followed, don’t you think? Now, for the topic at hand.I don’t think any economics books cover the cash flow through the fed well at all. Especially the in depth way that griffin does. I could be wrong as I have not read what you have. I have re-read my macro-economics book (Mankiw) who does not give a good explanation of how the money goes through the fed. I’ll make you a deal. You give me an economics book (with page numbers) that does explain how the money flows and I will read it. you borrow the griffin book (since I am sure you do not want to support his ridiculous book), read those 6 pages and then write back on this site to compare notes. Deal? (Also, my opinion does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=investor]n does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)[/quote]

Investor: Read that last section you wrote, please. Discourse implies a free and open EXCHANGE of ideas, along with the recognition that, if you’re wrong, you need to admit it.

You accuse Dave of failing to engage fairly, but you refuse to countenance, for a second, that Griffin can be remotely incorrect regarding those six pages. Dave, SK and others have gone to great lengths to rebut or refute Griffin, but no sale for you. Griffin is right and logic and facts be damned. You accuse Dave of being an arrogant SOB, but you seem to be the one that refuses to bend or accept ANY position other than your own. Doesn’t that sound just a tiny bit arrogant and close-minded?

If you demand fairness in others, you need to be prepared to give it yourself.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=investor]n does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)[/quote]

Investor: Read that last section you wrote, please. Discourse implies a free and open EXCHANGE of ideas, along with the recognition that, if you’re wrong, you need to admit it.

You accuse Dave of failing to engage fairly, but you refuse to countenance, for a second, that Griffin can be remotely incorrect regarding those six pages. Dave, SK and others have gone to great lengths to rebut or refute Griffin, but no sale for you. Griffin is right and logic and facts be damned. You accuse Dave of being an arrogant SOB, but you seem to be the one that refuses to bend or accept ANY position other than your own. Doesn’t that sound just a tiny bit arrogant and close-minded?

If you demand fairness in others, you need to be prepared to give it yourself.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=investor]n does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)[/quote]

Investor: Read that last section you wrote, please. Discourse implies a free and open EXCHANGE of ideas, along with the recognition that, if you’re wrong, you need to admit it.

You accuse Dave of failing to engage fairly, but you refuse to countenance, for a second, that Griffin can be remotely incorrect regarding those six pages. Dave, SK and others have gone to great lengths to rebut or refute Griffin, but no sale for you. Griffin is right and logic and facts be damned. You accuse Dave of being an arrogant SOB, but you seem to be the one that refuses to bend or accept ANY position other than your own. Doesn’t that sound just a tiny bit arrogant and close-minded?

If you demand fairness in others, you need to be prepared to give it yourself.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=investor]n does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)[/quote]

Investor: Read that last section you wrote, please. Discourse implies a free and open EXCHANGE of ideas, along with the recognition that, if you’re wrong, you need to admit it.

You accuse Dave of failing to engage fairly, but you refuse to countenance, for a second, that Griffin can be remotely incorrect regarding those six pages. Dave, SK and others have gone to great lengths to rebut or refute Griffin, but no sale for you. Griffin is right and logic and facts be damned. You accuse Dave of being an arrogant SOB, but you seem to be the one that refuses to bend or accept ANY position other than your own. Doesn’t that sound just a tiny bit arrogant and close-minded?

If you demand fairness in others, you need to be prepared to give it yourself.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=investor]n does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)[/quote]

Investor: Read that last section you wrote, please. Discourse implies a free and open EXCHANGE of ideas, along with the recognition that, if you’re wrong, you need to admit it.

You accuse Dave of failing to engage fairly, but you refuse to countenance, for a second, that Griffin can be remotely incorrect regarding those six pages. Dave, SK and others have gone to great lengths to rebut or refute Griffin, but no sale for you. Griffin is right and logic and facts be damned. You accuse Dave of being an arrogant SOB, but you seem to be the one that refuses to bend or accept ANY position other than your own. Doesn’t that sound just a tiny bit arrogant and close-minded?

If you demand fairness in others, you need to be prepared to give it yourself.

[davelj]

[quote=investor]
Davelj. Well, I have been reading this site for about 5 years but I have only begun to enter threads recently. As far as the tone of your blogs.Lets say that we are at a social gathering. You meet someone for the first time and the discussion turns to the federal reserve. The person that you are talking to has a different opinion than you. That person then begins to tell you that you cannot seriously believe what you are saying, no-one would take you seriously and that your opinions are irrelevant. Oh, and he seems angry at you while he is saying this. All on the first meeting. What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again? Responding to blogs is similar in that you are interfacing with real people who do have feelings. Some level of etiquette should be followed, don’t you think? [/quote]

That is a rather dramatic mischaracterization of our discussion here thus far, which is par for the course for you. Here’s our discussion in a nutshell: You read Griffin’s book on the Fed, took it all in as The Truth, and posted about it here, ending with the haughty and arrogant:”All of you economics professors, don’t feel bad if you don’t know the real power behind the money/ central banks. NO ONE is taught this.” To paraphrase your original post: “I know The Truth!! Everyone else is a bunch of Dummies!! Look at me, look at me!!” I subsequently pointed out that there was one little obvious niggling problem with your supposition that – and I quote (again) – the Fed’s ownership is “mostly unknown” but probably is comprised of “the wealthiest people on earth.” This inconvenient observation irritated you a little, then we went back and forth a little bit and you pulled out the cheapest debate stunt there is, which is basically saying, “Well if you’re unwilling to read part of Griffin’s book and refute it point by point, then I’m right, you’re wrong and the discussion’s over.” THAT leads me back to YOUR questions above (and I quote): “What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again?”

In other words: Pot, meet Kettle.

I have two problems with your posting style in this thread:

(1) You seem awfully sure of everything on this topic you post and I don’t get the impression that you really have the background to be so sure (that is, if anyone can be so sure of anything – as I occasionally tell folks with this affliction, “You seem more sure of everything than I am of anything”);
(2) As I mentioned above, declaring that someone’s wrong about a particular issue simply because they’re unwilling to spend a bunch of time refuting some obscure passage of a relatively obscure book is a ridiculous debate tactic, and one worthy of extreme mockery, frankly.
[quote=investor]
Now, for the topic at hand.I don’t think any economics books cover the cash flow through the fed well at all. Especially the in depth way that griffin does. I could be wrong as I have not read what you have. I have re-read my macro-economics book (Mankiw) who does not give a good explanation of how the money goes through the fed. I’ll make you a deal. You give me an economics book (with page numbers) that does explain how the money flows and I will read it. you borrow the griffin book (since I am sure you do not want to support his ridiculous book), read those 6 pages and then write back on this site to compare notes. Deal? (Also, my opinion does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)[/quote]

First of all, re-reading a Macro textbook for this discussion is a step in the wrong direction. I said, “Money and Banking,” which is a very different subject from Macro (albeit tangentially related) and deals with the very issue we’ve been discussing. That you don’t realize this speaks volumes. It took me all of 30 seconds to find the following article online:

http://www.rayservers.com/images/ModernMoneyMechanics.pdf

Honestly, I just skimmed it – it’s 50 pages long – and deals mostly with the expansion of the money supply. But… it also spends several pages on flows between the Treasury and the Fed. And what I REALLY like about it is that it is extremely detailed and actually outlines the debits and credits associated with each financial interaction within the Fed System. I’ll assume since you think you know a lot about all of this that you have a background in accounting, as I do, and will be able to follow the entries. (I’m guessing – and please tell me if I’m wrong – that Griffin’s manifesto doesn’t contain the words debit or credit… anywhere. Just an observation.) So, while this article probably isn’t *exactly* what you’re looking for, I bet it’s a big step in the right direction – that is, pretty close. So, instead of asking ME to spend MY time reading a widely discredited book and then explaining things to YOU, why don’t YOU spend YOUR time educating YOURSELF. And this has the additional benefit of your not having to converse with someone – me – that you find so unpleasant. It’s a win-win!!

This whole “compare notes” thing, quite frankly, sounds awfully time consuming from my end. And, more importantly, I don’t really care *that much* what you think you know. Believe what you want – it’s no skin off my back.

[davelj]

[quote=investor]
Davelj. Well, I have been reading this site for about 5 years but I have only begun to enter threads recently. As far as the tone of your blogs.Lets say that we are at a social gathering. You meet someone for the first time and the discussion turns to the federal reserve. The person that you are talking to has a different opinion than you. That person then begins to tell you that you cannot seriously believe what you are saying, no-one would take you seriously and that your opinions are irrelevant. Oh, and he seems angry at you while he is saying this. All on the first meeting. What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again? Responding to blogs is similar in that you are interfacing with real people who do have feelings. Some level of etiquette should be followed, don’t you think? [/quote]

That is a rather dramatic mischaracterization of our discussion here thus far, which is par for the course for you. Here’s our discussion in a nutshell: You read Griffin’s book on the Fed, took it all in as The Truth, and posted about it here, ending with the haughty and arrogant:”All of you economics professors, don’t feel bad if you don’t know the real power behind the money/ central banks. NO ONE is taught this.” To paraphrase your original post: “I know The Truth!! Everyone else is a bunch of Dummies!! Look at me, look at me!!” I subsequently pointed out that there was one little obvious niggling problem with your supposition that – and I quote (again) – the Fed’s ownership is “mostly unknown” but probably is comprised of “the wealthiest people on earth.” This inconvenient observation irritated you a little, then we went back and forth a little bit and you pulled out the cheapest debate stunt there is, which is basically saying, “Well if you’re unwilling to read part of Griffin’s book and refute it point by point, then I’m right, you’re wrong and the discussion’s over.” THAT leads me back to YOUR questions above (and I quote): “What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again?”

In other words: Pot, meet Kettle.

I have two problems with your posting style in this thread:

(1) You seem awfully sure of everything on this topic you post and I don’t get the impression that you really have the background to be so sure (that is, if anyone can be so sure of anything – as I occasionally tell folks with this affliction, “You seem more sure of everything than I am of anything”);
(2) As I mentioned above, declaring that someone’s wrong about a particular issue simply because they’re unwilling to spend a bunch of time refuting some obscure passage of a relatively obscure book is a ridiculous debate tactic, and one worthy of extreme mockery, frankly.
[quote=investor]
Now, for the topic at hand.I don’t think any economics books cover the cash flow through the fed well at all. Especially the in depth way that griffin does. I could be wrong as I have not read what you have. I have re-read my macro-economics book (Mankiw) who does not give a good explanation of how the money goes through the fed. I’ll make you a deal. You give me an economics book (with page numbers) that does explain how the money flows and I will read it. you borrow the griffin book (since I am sure you do not want to support his ridiculous book), read those 6 pages and then write back on this site to compare notes. Deal? (Also, my opinion does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)[/quote]

First of all, re-reading a Macro textbook for this discussion is a step in the wrong direction. I said, “Money and Banking,” which is a very different subject from Macro (albeit tangentially related) and deals with the very issue we’ve been discussing. That you don’t realize this speaks volumes. It took me all of 30 seconds to find the following article online:

http://www.rayservers.com/images/ModernMoneyMechanics.pdf

Honestly, I just skimmed it – it’s 50 pages long – and deals mostly with the expansion of the money supply. But… it also spends several pages on flows between the Treasury and the Fed. And what I REALLY like about it is that it is extremely detailed and actually outlines the debits and credits associated with each financial interaction within the Fed System. I’ll assume since you think you know a lot about all of this that you have a background in accounting, as I do, and will be able to follow the entries. (I’m guessing – and please tell me if I’m wrong – that Griffin’s manifesto doesn’t contain the words debit or credit… anywhere. Just an observation.) So, while this article probably isn’t *exactly* what you’re looking for, I bet it’s a big step in the right direction – that is, pretty close. So, instead of asking ME to spend MY time reading a widely discredited book and then explaining things to YOU, why don’t YOU spend YOUR time educating YOURSELF. And this has the additional benefit of your not having to converse with someone – me – that you find so unpleasant. It’s a win-win!!

This whole “compare notes” thing, quite frankly, sounds awfully time consuming from my end. And, more importantly, I don’t really care *that much* what you think you know. Believe what you want – it’s no skin off my back.

[davelj]

[quote=investor]
Davelj. Well, I have been reading this site for about 5 years but I have only begun to enter threads recently. As far as the tone of your blogs.Lets say that we are at a social gathering. You meet someone for the first time and the discussion turns to the federal reserve. The person that you are talking to has a different opinion than you. That person then begins to tell you that you cannot seriously believe what you are saying, no-one would take you seriously and that your opinions are irrelevant. Oh, and he seems angry at you while he is saying this. All on the first meeting. What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again? Responding to blogs is similar in that you are interfacing with real people who do have feelings. Some level of etiquette should be followed, don’t you think? [/quote]

That is a rather dramatic mischaracterization of our discussion here thus far, which is par for the course for you. Here’s our discussion in a nutshell: You read Griffin’s book on the Fed, took it all in as The Truth, and posted about it here, ending with the haughty and arrogant:”All of you economics professors, don’t feel bad if you don’t know the real power behind the money/ central banks. NO ONE is taught this.” To paraphrase your original post: “I know The Truth!! Everyone else is a bunch of Dummies!! Look at me, look at me!!” I subsequently pointed out that there was one little obvious niggling problem with your supposition that – and I quote (again) – the Fed’s ownership is “mostly unknown” but probably is comprised of “the wealthiest people on earth.” This inconvenient observation irritated you a little, then we went back and forth a little bit and you pulled out the cheapest debate stunt there is, which is basically saying, “Well if you’re unwilling to read part of Griffin’s book and refute it point by point, then I’m right, you’re wrong and the discussion’s over.” THAT leads me back to YOUR questions above (and I quote): “What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again?”

In other words: Pot, meet Kettle.

I have two problems with your posting style in this thread:

(1) You seem awfully sure of everything on this topic you post and I don’t get the impression that you really have the background to be so sure (that is, if anyone can be so sure of anything – as I occasionally tell folks with this affliction, “You seem more sure of everything than I am of anything”);
(2) As I mentioned above, declaring that someone’s wrong about a particular issue simply because they’re unwilling to spend a bunch of time refuting some obscure passage of a relatively obscure book is a ridiculous debate tactic, and one worthy of extreme mockery, frankly.
[quote=investor]
Now, for the topic at hand.I don’t think any economics books cover the cash flow through the fed well at all. Especially the in depth way that griffin does. I could be wrong as I have not read what you have. I have re-read my macro-economics book (Mankiw) who does not give a good explanation of how the money goes through the fed. I’ll make you a deal. You give me an economics book (with page numbers) that does explain how the money flows and I will read it. you borrow the griffin book (since I am sure you do not want to support his ridiculous book), read those 6 pages and then write back on this site to compare notes. Deal? (Also, my opinion does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)[/quote]

First of all, re-reading a Macro textbook for this discussion is a step in the wrong direction. I said, “Money and Banking,” which is a very different subject from Macro (albeit tangentially related) and deals with the very issue we’ve been discussing. That you don’t realize this speaks volumes. It took me all of 30 seconds to find the following article online:

http://www.rayservers.com/images/ModernMoneyMechanics.pdf

Honestly, I just skimmed it – it’s 50 pages long – and deals mostly with the expansion of the money supply. But… it also spends several pages on flows between the Treasury and the Fed. And what I REALLY like about it is that it is extremely detailed and actually outlines the debits and credits associated with each financial interaction within the Fed System. I’ll assume since you think you know a lot about all of this that you have a background in accounting, as I do, and will be able to follow the entries. (I’m guessing – and please tell me if I’m wrong – that Griffin’s manifesto doesn’t contain the words debit or credit… anywhere. Just an observation.) So, while this article probably isn’t *exactly* what you’re looking for, I bet it’s a big step in the right direction – that is, pretty close. So, instead of asking ME to spend MY time reading a widely discredited book and then explaining things to YOU, why don’t YOU spend YOUR time educating YOURSELF. And this has the additional benefit of your not having to converse with someone – me – that you find so unpleasant. It’s a win-win!!

This whole “compare notes” thing, quite frankly, sounds awfully time consuming from my end. And, more importantly, I don’t really care *that much* what you think you know. Believe what you want – it’s no skin off my back.

[davelj]

[quote=investor]
Davelj. Well, I have been reading this site for about 5 years but I have only begun to enter threads recently. As far as the tone of your blogs.Lets say that we are at a social gathering. You meet someone for the first time and the discussion turns to the federal reserve. The person that you are talking to has a different opinion than you. That person then begins to tell you that you cannot seriously believe what you are saying, no-one would take you seriously and that your opinions are irrelevant. Oh, and he seems angry at you while he is saying this. All on the first meeting. What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again? Responding to blogs is similar in that you are interfacing with real people who do have feelings. Some level of etiquette should be followed, don’t you think? [/quote]

That is a rather dramatic mischaracterization of our discussion here thus far, which is par for the course for you. Here’s our discussion in a nutshell: You read Griffin’s book on the Fed, took it all in as The Truth, and posted about it here, ending with the haughty and arrogant:”All of you economics professors, don’t feel bad if you don’t know the real power behind the money/ central banks. NO ONE is taught this.” To paraphrase your original post: “I know The Truth!! Everyone else is a bunch of Dummies!! Look at me, look at me!!” I subsequently pointed out that there was one little obvious niggling problem with your supposition that – and I quote (again) – the Fed’s ownership is “mostly unknown” but probably is comprised of “the wealthiest people on earth.” This inconvenient observation irritated you a little, then we went back and forth a little bit and you pulled out the cheapest debate stunt there is, which is basically saying, “Well if you’re unwilling to read part of Griffin’s book and refute it point by point, then I’m right, you’re wrong and the discussion’s over.” THAT leads me back to YOUR questions above (and I quote): “What kind of impression does that person give you? Would you care to converse further with that person or write them off as a rude, arrogant SOB whom you never hpoe to meet again?”

In other words: Pot, meet Kettle.

I have two problems with your posting style in this thread:

(1) You seem awfully sure of everything on this topic you post and I don’t get the impression that you really have the background to be so sure (that is, if anyone can be so sure of anything – as I occasionally tell folks with this affliction, “You seem more sure of everything than I am of anything”);
(2) As I mentioned above, declaring that someone’s wrong about a particular issue simply because they’re unwilling to spend a bunch of time refuting some obscure passage of a relatively obscure book is a ridiculous debate tactic, and one worthy of extreme mockery, frankly.
[quote=investor]
Now, for the topic at hand.I don’t think any economics books cover the cash flow through the fed well at all. Especially the in depth way that griffin does. I could be wrong as I have not read what you have. I have re-read my macro-economics book (Mankiw) who does not give a good explanation of how the money goes through the fed. I’ll make you a deal. You give me an economics book (with page numbers) that does explain how the money flows and I will read it. you borrow the griffin book (since I am sure you do not want to support his ridiculous book), read those 6 pages and then write back on this site to compare notes. Deal? (Also, my opinion does matter as does yours. We may not be able to change who is president but sharing opinions and ideas is the basic building block of a free society.)[/quote]

First of all, re-reading a Macro textbook for this discussion is a step in the wrong direction. I said, “Money and Banking,” which is a very different subject from Macro (albeit tangentially related) and deals with the very issue we’ve been discussing. That you don’t realize this speaks volumes. It took me all of 30 seconds to find the following article online:

http://www.rayservers.com/images/ModernMoneyMechanics.pdf

Honestly, I just skimmed it – it’s 50 pages long – and deals mostly with the expansion of the money supply. But… it also spends several pages on flows between the Treasury and the Fed. And what I REALLY like about it is that it is extremely detailed and actually outlines the debits and credits associated with each financial interaction within the Fed System. I’ll assume since you think you know a lot about all of this that you have a background in accounting, as I do, and will be able to follow the entries. (I’m guessing – and please tell me if I’m wrong – that Griffin’s manifesto doesn’t contain the words debit or credit… anywhere. Just an observation.) So, while this article probably isn’t *exactly* what you’re looking for, I bet it’s a big step in the right direction – that is, pretty close. So, instead of asking ME to spend MY time reading a widely discredited book and then explaining things to YOU, why don’t YOU spend YOUR time educating YOURSELF. And this has the additional benefit of your not having to converse with someone – me – that you find so unpleasant. It’s a win-win!!

This whole “compare notes” thing, quite frankly, sounds awfully time consuming from my end. And, more importantly, I don’t really care *that much* what you think you know. Believe what you want – it’s no skin off my back.

[Author]

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