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CA renter.
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January 19, 2012 at 1:29 AM #19434January 19, 2012 at 11:53 AM #736412
SD Transplant
ParticipantI was reading a bit about the subject this morning:
January 19, 2012 at 12:25 PM #736417
JPJonesParticipantRelevant to heating the pool using “solar”, my grandfather, who grew up during the depression, had an interestingly cheap way to heat his pool. He bought a black garden hose and ran it from the pool pump around the back yard through areas exposed to direct sunlight, then back into the pool. He’d let it run at a trickle during the day and we never saw the pool go below 75 F, even during the winter.
January 19, 2012 at 2:20 PM #736431sdduuuude
ParticipantOnly experience I have is an analysis done by a friend of mine, who is a world-class decision modeler.
He concluded that, because energy is priced in tiers, buying enough panels to completely remove you from the grid is not money well spent.
Spend enough to drop your usage down to the lowest tier and that’s enough.
January 19, 2012 at 2:22 PM #736433Participant[quote=JPJones]Relevant to heating the pool using “solar”, my grandfather, who grew up during the depression, had an interestingly cheap way to heat his pool. He bought a black garden hose and ran it from the pool pump around the back yard through areas exposed to direct sunlight, then back into the pool. He’d let it run at a trickle during the day and we never saw the pool go below 75 F, even during the winter.[/quote]
Same friend also suggested that the electricity to run the pool pump was a significant portion of his electricity needs. So, your plan isn’t a bad one because it saves heating costs, but not pumping costs.
January 19, 2012 at 2:27 PM #736435UCGal
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]Only experience I have is an analysis done by a friend of mine, who is a world-class decision modeler.
He concluded that, because energy is priced in tiers, buying enough panels to completely remove you from the grid is not money well spent.
Spend enough to drop your usage down to the lowest tier and that’s enough.[/quote]
I’ve reached the same conclusion.
Plus to go off grid you need an additional investment in inverters, batteries, etc.The advantage of going off grid is that if someone trips over a wire in El Centro and knocks the entire So Cal into darkness – you’ll still have power. If you have panels, but are still tied to the grid, you lose power along with everyone else.
Our 5 year plan includes getting solar – but scaling it enough to charge our plug in car that’s also on our 5 year plan. And still be in the bottom tier.
January 19, 2012 at 5:27 PM #736450Aecetia
ParticipantI think that is a smart plan. Five years from now solar should be even better and I am sure the companies will have been winnowed down to the most competitive, so you should get a better product, maybe even a product that does not look so darn ugly on the roof. I would go with a generator for now for when Homer pulls the plug on our power in Yuma.
January 19, 2012 at 9:51 PM #736463no_such_reality
ParticipantInstalled a 7KW system in October. 3000 SF home. Knew we didn’t have a south facing roof so it take efficiency down a lot in the winter. Do you have a good south facing roof that you will use? Goal was to drop us below zero in summer and allow for growth in energy consumption without pushing us beyond tier two.
Buy versus lease: the primary thing to think about here is simple. The lease has to be bought out by any future buyer of your property if you try to move before the full term of the lease.
As for heating a pool, that would’t be solar electric, that should be straight up solar water heating which is much more efficeint use of solar for heating.
As for size of the system, how many KW are you burning a month? The sweet spot is to drive your usage to just drop you enough to the top of the tier 2 rates. Unless you believe California’s rate climb is just beginning. I do, plus, ironically, I think night time use is will some be charged higher rates than daytime as we reach our mandated green energy levels, most of which will cut out at or shortly after sundown.
As for going off the grid, you’ll need massive batteries to act as a sink. Not worth it. As for going brown out, yep, they replaced the power poles the other day in the ‘hood. Took us down the whole day because the system sees a no load condition and errors out.
January 20, 2012 at 12:22 AM #736471bluehairdave
Participantim at 1500 kwh when running the AC
tier 2 ends at 437 so I need to knock off 1000kwh and probably get a 2nd setup just for pool heating im guessing?
January 20, 2012 at 3:14 PM #736525ParticipantI’m guessing a 7KW system will do it. There are a lot of variables to the system cost.
Panel type. Conerter type. Install. For us, the differnce between a small system and the big system was literally, just the cost of the panels. Up to our 7.5, its the same converter components. Adding panels is a couple hours install above the smaller count panels. Labor, electrician basically will charge you the cost of the day the work is all sub day. It’s still a multiday job, but each step takes a day.
Overall, don’t know where the rebates are at now. Don’t know the tax story now.
Gross cost of the system will be akin to buying an SUV before tax/rebates.
Financially in the near term, not cost efficient for us, I’m looking long term and expect electric rates in California to get ugly.
However, from first hand experience. Watching the meter spin backward, puts a smile on your face.
January 21, 2012 at 12:22 AM #736532Participantjust about all the companies i talk to have it around 7.5 kw system getting me into baseline lowest area and for the lease (the huge fed incentive is no longer active)its about $170 to $200 a month depending on the company. nothing down. 20 year lease. buy out around 20k due to we just moved in and its new construction.
so instead of paying sdge $420 a month I will now pay $167 for the solar and maybe sdge $30 or so for overages on high use days. Just about all the companies have the same product too. Even with the lease buyout they maintain for all 20 years.
payment would have been $43 a month for all of this if the fed program was still active.
January 21, 2012 at 12:44 AM #736533sd_matt
ParticipantIf we are going to see high inflation in the future then buying would be a good move depending on how long you will live there.
January 22, 2012 at 9:48 AM #736557LesBaer45
ParticipantIf you are willing to work through the numbers, these sites can be a great way to kill a lot of time. 😉
http://www.nrel.gov/rredc/pvwatts/grid.html
The price of solar panels continues to drop, but that may not last much longer if import tariffs being talked about come to fruition.
Also as has been discussed previously, the panels are a small fraction of the cost. The inverters, cables, mounting hardware and labor will kill you.
And the cost of batteries as a “standby”? They stomp all over your dead body just for grins.
January 22, 2012 at 10:27 AM #736562Bubblesitter
ParticipantSome good news for those contemplating solar
Few days ago the California Public Utilites commision rejected SDG&E proposal to add a network use charge for rooftop solar owners. It would have added a big montly surcharge and made payback period for going solar longer.
Bubblesitter
January 22, 2012 at 4:56 PM #736572CA renter
Participant[quote=Bubblesitter]Some good news for those contemplating solar
Few days ago the California Public Utilites commision rejected SDG&E proposal to add a network use charge for rooftop solar owners. It would have added a big montly surcharge and made payback period for going solar longer.
Bubblesitter[/quote]
Great news!
I love UCAN!
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