Looks like the socialists of Looks like the socialists of Europe have a lot in common with the Tea Party here. They are against bailouts. 😉
Could it be that bailouts are necessary evils? Based the stock markets’ responses, the Capitalists certainly like the bailout.
Weeks of hesitant half-steps to address Greece’s debt problems had only worsened market worries about the euro, and were threatening the still-fragile economic recoveries in the United States and Asia. Now, Mr. Obama told Mrs. Merkel that the Europeans needed an overwhelming financial rescue to end speculation that the euro — and European unity — could crumble.
“Necessary for what ?” is the “Necessary for what ?” is the question.
sdduuuude
May 10, 2010 @
11:48 PM
“Looking at the current state “Looking at the current state of the world economy, the underlying reality remains little changed: there is more debt outstanding than is capable of being properly serviced. It’s certainly possible to issue government debt in order to bail out one borrower or another (and prevent their bondholders from taking a loss). However, this means that for every dollar of bad debt that should have been wiped off the books, the world economy is left with two – the initial dollar of debt that has been bailed out and must continue to be serviced, and an additional dollar of government debt that was issued to execute the bailout.
Notice also that the capital that is used to provide the bailout goes from the hands of savers into the hands of bondholders who made bad investments. We are not only allocating global savings to governments. We are further allocating global savings precisely to those who were the worst stewards of the world’s capital. From a productivity standpoint, this is a nightmare.”
– John Hussman
SD Realtor
May 11, 2010 @
8:40 AM
That is a good question That is a good question dude… Seems like lots of people buy the govt line that all of the bailouts were necessary otherwise we would have all been living in caves. That there was absolutely no other alternative.
jimmyle
May 11, 2010 @
10:09 AM
Trying to solve the problem Trying to solve the problem of over spending and debts by borrowing more money? I don’t think it will work in the long term.
Coronita
May 11, 2010 @
10:25 AM
haha. now the europeans are haha. now the europeans are in the race to the bottom just like us 🙂
meadandale
May 11, 2010 @
10:28 AM
flu wrote:haha. now the [quote=flu]haha. now the europeans are in the race to the bottom just like us :)[/quote]
The have a significant head start…but we are eagerly throwing the switch on the nitrous cannister.
Arraya
May 11, 2010 @
1:57 PM
Seems more like a final Seems more like a final stages of a big global Jenga game to me. Looks like everybody in the west is looking to “hit it big” economically in the near future with all this debt the are taking on.
GH
May 11, 2010 @
4:07 PM
Many here seem to imply this Many here seem to imply this is NEW debt that is being taken on. Where was everyone when the money was actually being squandered during the 2000 – 2006 time frame? This was the inflationary time when the money was wasted. Now all we have is a massive debt overhang and the only decision is who takes the loss.
The biggest mistake the US made was failing to control the Lehman failure, which acted as the trigger domino and set all the rest in motion. If Greece went bankrupt in that the bondholders were burned, Spain and Portugal would quickly follow, dragging in the bigger players such as France and Germany at some point. I am unclear how much of this debt we insure here in the US, but I suspect through complex financial mirrors it could be massive.
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses!
no_such_reality
May 11, 2010 @
8:52 PM
GH wrote:
The simple fact is [quote=GH]
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses![/quote]
Baby boomers don’t like paying the piper…
an
May 11, 2010 @
10:50 PM
GH wrote:
The simple fact is [quote=GH]
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses![/quote]
I vote for inflation. Since it’s all funny money anyways, inflation is a much easier pill to shove down people’s throat.
all
May 11, 2010 @
10:58 PM
AN wrote:GH wrote:
The simple [quote=AN][quote=GH]
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses![/quote]
I vote for inflation. Since it’s all funny money anyways, inflation is a much easier pill to shove down people’s throat.[/quote]
Me too. We should not allow the risk takers to suffer alone. Inflation that hits hardest those farthest from the magic tree is soooo much better.
SD Realtor
May 12, 2010 @
12:00 AM
We can look at Greece as a We can look at Greece as a loose loose deal. Not sure if anyone has been watching the CDS for the deal. They have been going up which of course means the value of the asset they are insuring is going down…kind of a lack of confidence indicator…. Our (the US) component known so far is like 54B. Now of course who issues the CDS? Well AIG! So if cool we are bailing out Greece. If Greece does belly up then AIG has to pay off the swaps. Of course we have bailed out AIG as well.
Cool deal!
Coronita
May 12, 2010 @
5:55 AM
SD Realtor wrote:We can look [quote=SD Realtor]We can look at Greece as a loose loose deal. Not sure if anyone has been watching the CDS for the deal. They have been going up which of course means the value of the asset they are insuring is going down…kind of a lack of confidence indicator…. Our (the US) component known so far is like 54B. Now of course who issues the CDS? Well AIG! So if cool we are bailing out Greece. If Greece does belly up then AIG has to pay off the swaps. Of course we have bailed out AIG as well.
Cool deal![/quote]
I’m just wondering if a few EU nations (Greece, Spain, Portugal) end up getting kicked out of the EU..
Coronita
May 12, 2010 @
5:57 AM
AN wrote:GH wrote:
The simple [quote=AN][quote=GH]
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses![/quote]
I vote for inflation. Since it’s all funny money anyways, inflation is a much easier pill to shove down people’s throat.[/quote]
But isn’t tough to devalue the euro, with all XXX nations in it? Isn’t that part of the problem. Seems like the Euro is a now one big cluster-f….
God, I wish China had “diversified” into the Euro back when they were threatening. I’m just wondering who hits the bottom first, us or the Euro block. I vote for the Euro block…Hmmm seems like time for another poll.
an
May 12, 2010 @
9:37 AM
flu wrote:AN wrote:GH [quote=flu][quote=AN][quote=GH]
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses![/quote]
I vote for inflation. Since it’s all funny money anyways, inflation is a much easier pill to shove down people’s throat.[/quote]
But isn’t tough to devalue the euro, with all XXX nations in it? Isn’t that part of the problem. Seems like the Euro is a now one big cluster-f….
God, I wish China had “diversified” into the Euro back when they were threatening. I’m just wondering who hits the bottom first, us or the Euro block. I vote for the Euro block…Hmmm seems like time for another poll.[/quote]
I’m not sure if it’s tougher to devalue the Euro vs the $. I think Europe is much more left leaning, so it’s much more likely for the government to bailout than us. But I could be totally wrong about that.
Poll away, I vote for Europe.
Aecetia
June 27, 2010 @
7:33 PM
“Germany and France are “Germany and France are examining ways of creating a ‘two-tier’ euro system to separate stronger northern European countries from weaker southern states. The creation of a “super-euro” zone would initially include France, Germany, Holland, Austria and Finland. The likes of Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and even Ireland would be left in a larger rump mostly Mediterranean grouping.” The haves and the havesnotsomuch?
Greek Islands for Greek Islands for sale-
“Greece starts putting island land up for sale to save economy. …Desperate attempt to repay debts also driven by inability to find funds to develop infrastructure on islands.”
Crap!! Opportunity of a Crap!! Opportunity of a lifetime, and I’ve already bought retirement property in the States.
briansd1
June 27, 2010 @
10:36 PM
Aecetia wrote:Greek Islands [quote=Aecetia]Greek Islands for sale-
“Greece starts putting island land up for sale to save economy. …Desperate attempt to repay debts also driven by inability to find funds to develop infrastructure on islands.”
briansd1
May 10, 2010 @ 9:00 PM
Looks like the socialists of
Looks like the socialists of Europe have a lot in common with the Tea Party here. They are against bailouts. 😉
Could it be that bailouts are necessary evils? Based the stock markets’ responses, the Capitalists certainly like the bailout.
SD Realtor
May 10, 2010 @ 11:16 PM
Perhaps you should read other
Perhaps you should read other opinions about bailouts in general.
http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/1168/
sdduuuude
May 10, 2010 @ 11:46 PM
“Necessary for what ?” is the
“Necessary for what ?” is the question.
sdduuuude
May 10, 2010 @ 11:48 PM
“Looking at the current state
“Looking at the current state of the world economy, the underlying reality remains little changed: there is more debt outstanding than is capable of being properly serviced. It’s certainly possible to issue government debt in order to bail out one borrower or another (and prevent their bondholders from taking a loss). However, this means that for every dollar of bad debt that should have been wiped off the books, the world economy is left with two – the initial dollar of debt that has been bailed out and must continue to be serviced, and an additional dollar of government debt that was issued to execute the bailout.
Notice also that the capital that is used to provide the bailout goes from the hands of savers into the hands of bondholders who made bad investments. We are not only allocating global savings to governments. We are further allocating global savings precisely to those who were the worst stewards of the world’s capital. From a productivity standpoint, this is a nightmare.”
– John Hussman
SD Realtor
May 11, 2010 @ 8:40 AM
That is a good question
That is a good question dude… Seems like lots of people buy the govt line that all of the bailouts were necessary otherwise we would have all been living in caves. That there was absolutely no other alternative.
jimmyle
May 11, 2010 @ 10:09 AM
Trying to solve the problem
Trying to solve the problem of over spending and debts by borrowing more money? I don’t think it will work in the long term.
Coronita
May 11, 2010 @ 10:25 AM
haha. now the europeans are
haha. now the europeans are in the race to the bottom just like us 🙂
meadandale
May 11, 2010 @ 10:28 AM
flu wrote:haha. now the
[quote=flu]haha. now the europeans are in the race to the bottom just like us :)[/quote]
The have a significant head start…but we are eagerly throwing the switch on the nitrous cannister.
Arraya
May 11, 2010 @ 1:57 PM
Seems more like a final
Seems more like a final stages of a big global Jenga game to me. Looks like everybody in the west is looking to “hit it big” economically in the near future with all this debt the are taking on.
GH
May 11, 2010 @ 4:07 PM
Many here seem to imply this
Many here seem to imply this is NEW debt that is being taken on. Where was everyone when the money was actually being squandered during the 2000 – 2006 time frame? This was the inflationary time when the money was wasted. Now all we have is a massive debt overhang and the only decision is who takes the loss.
The biggest mistake the US made was failing to control the Lehman failure, which acted as the trigger domino and set all the rest in motion. If Greece went bankrupt in that the bondholders were burned, Spain and Portugal would quickly follow, dragging in the bigger players such as France and Germany at some point. I am unclear how much of this debt we insure here in the US, but I suspect through complex financial mirrors it could be massive.
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses!
no_such_reality
May 11, 2010 @ 8:52 PM
GH wrote:
The simple fact is
[quote=GH]
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses![/quote]
Baby boomers don’t like paying the piper…
an
May 11, 2010 @ 10:50 PM
GH wrote:
The simple fact is
[quote=GH]
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses![/quote]
I vote for inflation. Since it’s all funny money anyways, inflation is a much easier pill to shove down people’s throat.
all
May 11, 2010 @ 10:58 PM
AN wrote:GH wrote:
The simple
[quote=AN][quote=GH]
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses![/quote]
I vote for inflation. Since it’s all funny money anyways, inflation is a much easier pill to shove down people’s throat.[/quote]
Me too. We should not allow the risk takers to suffer alone. Inflation that hits hardest those farthest from the magic tree is soooo much better.
SD Realtor
May 12, 2010 @ 12:00 AM
We can look at Greece as a
We can look at Greece as a loose loose deal. Not sure if anyone has been watching the CDS for the deal. They have been going up which of course means the value of the asset they are insuring is going down…kind of a lack of confidence indicator…. Our (the US) component known so far is like 54B. Now of course who issues the CDS? Well AIG! So if cool we are bailing out Greece. If Greece does belly up then AIG has to pay off the swaps. Of course we have bailed out AIG as well.
Cool deal!
Coronita
May 12, 2010 @ 5:55 AM
SD Realtor wrote:We can look
[quote=SD Realtor]We can look at Greece as a loose loose deal. Not sure if anyone has been watching the CDS for the deal. They have been going up which of course means the value of the asset they are insuring is going down…kind of a lack of confidence indicator…. Our (the US) component known so far is like 54B. Now of course who issues the CDS? Well AIG! So if cool we are bailing out Greece. If Greece does belly up then AIG has to pay off the swaps. Of course we have bailed out AIG as well.
Cool deal![/quote]
I’m just wondering if a few EU nations (Greece, Spain, Portugal) end up getting kicked out of the EU..
Coronita
May 12, 2010 @ 5:57 AM
AN wrote:GH wrote:
The simple
[quote=AN][quote=GH]
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses![/quote]
I vote for inflation. Since it’s all funny money anyways, inflation is a much easier pill to shove down people’s throat.[/quote]
But isn’t tough to devalue the euro, with all XXX nations in it? Isn’t that part of the problem. Seems like the Euro is a now one big cluster-f….
God, I wish China had “diversified” into the Euro back when they were threatening. I’m just wondering who hits the bottom first, us or the Euro block. I vote for the Euro block…Hmmm seems like time for another poll.
an
May 12, 2010 @ 9:37 AM
flu wrote:AN wrote:GH
[quote=flu][quote=AN][quote=GH]
The simple fact is the money is gone! It was ALL wasted, and now either through inflation or default someone is going to have to accept their losses![/quote]
I vote for inflation. Since it’s all funny money anyways, inflation is a much easier pill to shove down people’s throat.[/quote]
But isn’t tough to devalue the euro, with all XXX nations in it? Isn’t that part of the problem. Seems like the Euro is a now one big cluster-f….
God, I wish China had “diversified” into the Euro back when they were threatening. I’m just wondering who hits the bottom first, us or the Euro block. I vote for the Euro block…Hmmm seems like time for another poll.[/quote]
I’m not sure if it’s tougher to devalue the Euro vs the $. I think Europe is much more left leaning, so it’s much more likely for the government to bailout than us. But I could be totally wrong about that.
Poll away, I vote for Europe.
Aecetia
June 27, 2010 @ 7:33 PM
“Germany and France are
“Germany and France are examining ways of creating a ‘two-tier’ euro system to separate stronger northern European countries from weaker southern states. The creation of a “super-euro” zone would initially include France, Germany, Holland, Austria and Finland. The likes of Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and even Ireland would be left in a larger rump mostly Mediterranean grouping.” The haves and the havesnotsomuch?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/7837874/Germany-and-France-examine-two-tier-euro.html
Aecetia
June 27, 2010 @ 7:48 PM
Greek Islands for
Greek Islands for sale-
“Greece starts putting island land up for sale to save economy. …Desperate attempt to repay debts also driven by inability to find funds to develop infrastructure on islands.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/24/greece-islands-sale-save-economy
eavesdropper
June 27, 2010 @ 8:50 PM
Crap!! Opportunity of a
Crap!! Opportunity of a lifetime, and I’ve already bought retirement property in the States.
briansd1
June 27, 2010 @ 10:36 PM
Aecetia wrote:Greek Islands
[quote=Aecetia]Greek Islands for sale-
“Greece starts putting island land up for sale to save economy. …Desperate attempt to repay debts also driven by inability to find funds to develop infrastructure on islands.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/24/greece-islands-sale-save-economy
[/quote]
Some argue that we should have a two tier system here in USA.