Right-Wing Media are Destroying Our Country

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Submitted by zk on May 12, 2017 - 6:41am

For a long time I've been saying that the right-wing media is destroying our country. This is what I'm talking about:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/poli...

Republican voters, being human and therefore credulous and gullible, believe whatever they hear on Fox Propaganda (and Breitbart and the rest of the right-wing media). They support republicans and con man don no matter what they do, because Fox Propaganda tells them republicans and con man don are doing a great job no matter what they do.

As I've said before, I don't think right-wing voters are more credulous than left-wing voters or anybody else. The difference is that there is a massive industry dedicated to right-wing propaganda.

Sure, the left has some propaganda available. But there are big differences between what's available on the left and what's available on the right. Mainly Fox Propaganda, but there is a lot more. Fox Propaganda is propaganda masquerading as real, hard, actual news. And it's the go-to "news" outlet of tens of millions of Americans. The left has nothing like that. Many conservatives will tell you that all of the mainstream media is left-wing propaganda. This is because they believe whatever they hear on Fox Propaganda, which has been peddling that idea since the day they come on the air. And now, you have Breitbart and a thousand other "news" websites, all of which create an alternate universe where a right winger can find all the sources he needs to validate what he's hearing on Fox Propaganda. Many of them have moved past Fox Propaganda and now have Breitbart and similarly virulent right-wing propaganda sites as their go-to "news" outlet. They never want or see a need to read the New York Times or the Washington Post. Why would they read actual news when they have available to them thousands of places that make them feel great about themselves and their ideas? Somewhere where everyone agrees with them?

So now we have a president with fascist tendencies, and a congress afraid to stand up to him, because it will hurt them with their base, because their base loves con man don, and they can's see con man don for what he is because they're watching Fox Propaganda, which is telling them how great he's doing. He's in the process of eliminating governmental checks on his power. There's a good chance he'll succeed, because nobody wants to stand up to him, because that would be an unpopular move with republican voters, who think he's doing a great job because they watch Fox Propaganda.

What happens when you have a fascist president with greatly reduced checks on his power? Unfortunately, I think we're about to find out. And we have right-wing media to thank.

Submitted by harvey on May 12, 2017 - 7:04am.

http://www.patdollard.com/

THE WAR STARTS HERE!

Submitted by zk on May 12, 2017 - 7:18am.

harvey wrote:
http://www.patdollard.com/

THE WAR STARTS HERE!

Yeah, then you have those sites that are just complete lunacy. But they have lots of followers. The fringe is bigger than I thought.

Submitted by harvey on May 12, 2017 - 7:59am.

One of the reasons the far right has gained so much political traction is the "both sides are the same" camp - the folks who pride themselves on being "independent" and objective. Ironically they are the biggest suckers.

The typical comeback to concerns about the influence of right-wing media is an obscure example of a wacky left-wing commentator or site - "see both sides are the same!" But the right has substantial mass, their "news" shows dominate the ratings and their message is far more biased.

Moderates in America could have tremendous influence. But so many of them have been pulled right by their own desire to stay "neutral." Of course Trump is the most glaring example of the phenomenon: his incompetence and childish behavior were so obvious from the start that any reasonable voter should have dismissed him outright. "But we have to consider both sides..."

In the real world, sometimes one of the choices really is not even worthy of consideration.

Right wing media is huge business in America. In the mainstream Fox is far bigger than CNN, and the right wing fringe sites really aren't so fringe at all. The Pat Dollards and AM talk radio shows have millions of regular and consistent followers. There is nothing of equivalent mass on the left.

The reason for the disparity is simple: There's more money to be made in right-wing politics. Energy companies need to trash the environment and military contractors need constant war. But you can't sell that message directly. They've learned that the "look at what these unpatriotic liberals are up to now" does sell. In a big way.

Submitted by zk on May 12, 2017 - 11:36am.

harvey wrote:

The typical comeback to concerns about the influence of right-wing media is an obscure example of a wacky left-wing commentator or site - "see both sides are the same!" But the right has substantial mass, their "news" shows dominate the ratings and their message is far more biased.

Exactly.

harvey wrote:

Right wing media is huge business in America. In the mainstream Fox is far bigger than CNN, and the right wing fringe sites really aren't so fringe at all. The Pat Dollards and AM talk radio shows have millions of regular and consistent followers. There is nothing of equivalent mass on the left.

Indeed.
harvey wrote:

The reason for the disparity is simple: There's more money to be made in right-wing politics. Energy companies need to trash the environment and military contractors need constant war. But you can't sell that message directly. They've learned that the "look at what these unpatriotic liberals are up to now" does sell. In a big way.

I don’t agree with the money part. I agree that there’s more money to be made in right-wing politics. And that you can’t sell that message directly. But I’m not sure how that money would get to right-wing media. I mean, military contractors and energy companies aren’t buying advertising or funding, as far as I can tell, the right-wing media in any way. I’m not sure how that would work. I wouldn’t put it past them. I’m certain they would if they could, and if it were necessary, but I don’t see how it would work.

I also don’t think it’s necessary. I think that right-wing media is extremely popular because it tells right wingers what they want to hear. It tells them they're right about everything. It makes them feel good about themselves. It makes them feel strong and smart. It makes them feel like they're better and stronger and manlier than whiny liberal pansies. That stuff sells. It sells way better than the truth. People flock to Fox Propaganda and Breitbart and the Drudge Report. You don’t need energy companies and military contractors to fund that. Procter and Gamble is all you need.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 12, 2017 - 1:31pm.

I always asserted that the bias is assymetrical.

The right wing is wackjob biased because the message works on low-education middle age men (and their women) who aspire to be important bosses. That's why Trump speaks to them. He's just like them but rich and powerful so people listen to him. Trump's base feels disempowered because in a high-skills, high-education world, they have no competitive advantage.

Imagine Trump reduced to working-class. Will he have friends and family? I don't think so.

Trump's female base support Trump because they got knocked up by their men, so that's all they got.

Sure, there is bias on the left too, and yes, it's PC and condescending at times But when you have superior values, you have the right to look down. After all, traditional well to do, educated conservatives whose families have means and upbringing always looked down, but in a polite/PC manner suitable to their stations in life.

Advertisers want ratings and eyeballs. So whatever generate ratings sells.

ZK, did you read about the 2 guys who started a left wing site but nobody read it? They switched to right wing and became wildly successful.

I have friend who's in IT. I asked him to partner with me and start a right wing site. I would write the crazy lies and conspiracies. But he has too much integrity and not all that motivated to earn money that way.

Submitted by harvey on May 12, 2017 - 2:32pm.

zk wrote:
I mean, military contractors and energy companies aren’t buying advertising or funding, as far as I can tell, the right-wing media in any way.

It's not direct advertising, but there is a community of media, corporations, and politicians that complement each other in a mutually beneficial way.

An essential element of the modern American right-wing culture is winning. The message from the right is that they are the winning team. Look at the recent healthcare legislation; the headline on Fox news was that the Republicans "scored a win." There was no mention of what the new law even did!

In order to win in politics you need money. The corporations provide financial support to the the politicians, they win the election with their war chest and the media gets their viewership by supporting and siding with the winners (and disparaging the losers, of course.)

People don't watch Fox or listen to talk radio to hear news, to get an update on current events. They watch Fox to cheer on their team - the winning team.

But I also agree with you that there is also plenty of incentive in simply reinforcing the mythology that you, the viewer, are one of the "Real Americans."

Submitted by SK in CV on May 12, 2017 - 10:15pm.

It's not just right wing media. It's the absolutely moronic mainstream media. This from the LA Times:

Still, nothing prepared us for the magnitude of this train wreck. Like millions of other Americans, we clung to a slim hope that the new president would turn out to be all noise and bluster, or that the people around him in the White House would act as a check on his worst instincts, or that he would be sobered and transformed by the awesome responsibilities of office.

JFC. Who coulda knowed it all over again. Anyone and everyone who watched the campaign should have known exactly what was coming. Only an f'ing moron couldn't see it coming. But they were constantly distracted by shiny but absolutely benign things. Ya know.... emails and shit.

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ed-ou...

Submitted by zk on May 14, 2017 - 8:47am.

SK in CV wrote:
It's not just right wing media. It's the absolutely moronic mainstream media. This from the LA Times:

Still, nothing prepared us for the magnitude of this train wreck. Like millions of other Americans, we clung to a slim hope that the new president would turn out to be all noise and bluster, or that the people around him in the White House would act as a check on his worst instincts, or that he would be sobered and transformed by the awesome responsibilities of office.

JFC. Who coulda knowed it all over again. Anyone and everyone who watched the campaign should have known exactly what was coming. Only an f'ing moron couldn't see it coming. But they were constantly distracted by shiny but absolutely benign things. Ya know.... emails and shit.

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ed-our-dishonest-president/

So you're saying the mainstream media was not harsh enough on con man don?

I think that that was definitely true in many cases. And I think the reason for that is that the constant accusations of left-wing bias from the right-wing media have cowed the mainstream media into toning down, not just in the case of con man don's candidacy, but in general, their condemnation of any right-wing idea, policy, action, or philosophy that they (the mainstream media) see as dangerous, foolish, ignorant, wrong, or immoral.

All that said, I disagree with your assessment of the L.A. times. The quote you cite above was preceded by this:

The Times called him unprepared and unsuited for the job he was seeking, and said his election would be a “catastrophe.”

The quote I cite linked to the following article.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorial...

To say that electing a particular candidate would be "catastrophic for the nation" is pretty heavy. Not sure how you could ask for more than that.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 14, 2017 - 10:49am.

It's not just the media but society in general.

ZK, you once said you have right wing friends. I have some too maybe, but I don't allow allow them to speak their shit; and if they do, I would call them on what they say. And if I lose friend or family, then so be it.

As long as people make ratonial arguments then fine, but if people talk shit, they should be able to take shit back.

We don't allow certain behavior in society, and right-wing uneducated behavior should not stand either. Liberals are too soft and weak. Not a winning strategy.

You know, iconservatives don't believe in kindness and redemption, soft wishey-washy enforcement of the law, or engagement with adversaries. They believe is swift punitive action as deterrent. Give them what they believe in so they may learn.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 17, 2017 - 4:52pm.

Trump and his base keep on asserting they are unfairly treated. If anything, they are treated too nicely.

Can't believe the coast guard graduates cheered Trump for making that laughable statement. Makes us wonder the integrity and IQ of those grads.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/...

Submitted by outtamojo on May 18, 2017 - 12:22am.

I believe whining about how you are treated earns one the "snowflake " label among the right so complaining about being the worst treated politician in the history of the world...

Submitted by flu on May 18, 2017 - 7:22am.

you guys need a hobby. Then you can forget about what goes on in washington, and adopt my
"I don't give a shit, it's not my problem" attitude.

Here's a few things you can think...

It doesn't affect me directly, not my problem...

Let the next election sort it's own mess out, not my problem.

Populists aren't going to benefit from the administration...too bad.. also not my problem.

In fact, they might be worse off, after everything is done... also not my problem.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 18, 2017 - 9:14am.

Flu, I sorta agree with "not my problem". But I want to stay informed and knowledgeable about our world.

I don't want to be the dumb shits who pontificate about Syria but don't know the difference between Shia, Sunni and Alawites.

I'm cool as an ice cube and don't let any of this personally upset me in any way. I find it highly entertaining. It's like going to the zoo while reading my iPad in the toilet. I do that a lot since I eat lots of veggies.

Also, as responsible citizens we have to be angry that our country is being destroyed, but we can t be cynical or bitter.

Submitted by flu on May 18, 2017 - 9:54am.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Flu, I sorta agree with "not my problem". But I want to stay informed and knowledgeable about our world.

I don't want to be the dumb shits who pontificate about Syria but don't know the difference between Shia, Sunni and Alawites.

I'm cool as an ice cube and don't let any of this personally upset me in any way. I find it highly entertaining. It's like going to the zoo while reading my iPad in the toilet. I do that a lot since I eat lots of veggies.

Also, as responsible citizens we have to be angry that our country is being destroyed, but we can t be cynical or bitter.

Mad? Why? There's nothing to be mad at. This is how democracy works. If enough people want to go down a terrible path, that's choice.... Those people voted for this. Those people deserve to have everything that's going to happen to them. Again, not my problem.

Getting left out of trade deals that would give opportunities to middle class americans? Not my problem.

*Removing restrictions off nutritional guidelines for public school meals... Again, not my problem...My kid will brown bag their lunch.

*Removing EPA rules/ OSHA rules...CA usually leads environmental laws/workplace regulation wrto the rest of the nation (I hate CARB, but in spirit I get it)....But if we have mines that collapse in places like West VA...Again, not my problem..

*Can't find a doctor in the rural rustbelt states, where the majority of the doctors are foreign/visa doctors who are the only ones willing to work for substandard pay in those impoverished areas... Again, not my problem.

*Want to gut obamacare so the majority of the people in this country with some sort of preexisting condition (high blood pressure, heart disease, obesity,etc)...can no longer find insurance...Again not my problem.. While we are at it, why not repeal social security too. Why should I save for other people who cannot save for themselves... Again, not my problem.

People voted for this... The WANTED it to happen... And again, not my problem.

Submitted by outtamojo on May 18, 2017 - 10:43am.

I guess this has become my hobby, sad to say : (

Submitted by flu on May 18, 2017 - 11:22am.

outtamojo wrote:
I guess this has become my hobby, sad to say : (

The answer to life's problem is always "miata".

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 18, 2017 - 2:24pm.

I agree Flu. No need to fight to alleviate problems of people's own creation. Even if you do, they don't appreciate your efforts and feel condescended to anyway. So let them experience what they voted for. If they don't wake up and educate themselves, oh well... too bad.

While we're at it, the FCC can undo all internet rules and let the providers squeeze subscribers. Rural dwellers can pay $500 for broadband because it costs so much to run the lines there. Or they can crawl at dial up.

In urban areas where there are economies of scale, what do we care about the podunk?

Submitted by zk on May 18, 2017 - 3:41pm.

Most of these problems might not be my problems. I am nonetheless concerned for (at least) 3 reasons. Not in any particular order:

1) The people who voted for con man don are credulous and gullible, and they have brought this upon themselves. A lot of them voted for con man don because they're afraid of the new culture of America, in which they're no longer the preferred people. Which, in many cases, does make them racists and/or xenophobes. But they are humans nonetheless. They've been tricked and duped and lied to and manipulated. The racist ones were probably raised by racist parents. To let them be eaten by the wolves they were tricked into voting for seems like an inferior response to trying to educate them. Both for how their lives would turn out and for how the country would turn out. Yes, I know, they're tough to educate. They're stuck in their ways and stuck to their fox propaganda. Sure, it ain't easy. Good things rarely are.

Now, if it was right-wing media who we were throwing to the wolves, I'd be all for it. I'd yell "fuck them" at the top of my lungs and I'd yell "take that, motherfuckers" at them as they were being eaten. I would raise my arms in triumph as the wolves shit out whatever disgusting brown remnants were left of them. They're the ones that deserve our contempt and hate. They sold propaganda for money. They are ruining our country.

2) Even if it's not my problem, it's this country's problem. I think this is a great country, and it would be bad for us and bad for the world if we failed as a country.

3) My daughter is 16 years old. God knows how much damage con man don craven congressional republicans could cause if nobody checks his power. I don't want that kind of future for my daughter.

Submitted by harvey on May 18, 2017 - 4:07pm.

flu wrote:
People voted for this... The WANTED it to happen... And again, not my problem.

You've just made it so easy to go Godwin on this thread.

Submitted by flu on May 18, 2017 - 5:20pm.

zk wrote:
Most of these problems might not be my problems. I am nonetheless concerned for (at least) 3 reasons. Not in any particular order:

1) The people who voted for con man don are credulous and gullible, and they have brought this upon themselves. A lot of them voted for con man don because they're afraid of the new culture of America, in which they're no longer the preferred people. Which, in many cases, does make them racists and/or xenophobes. But they are humans nonetheless. They've been tricked and duped and lied to and manipulated. The racist ones were probably raised by racist parents. To let them be eaten by the wolves they were tricked into voting for seems like an inferior response to trying to educate them. Both for how their lives would turn out and for how the country would turn out. Yes, I know, they're tough to educate. They're stuck in their ways and stuck to their fox propaganda. Sure, it ain't easy. Good things rarely are.

Now, if it was right-wing media who we were throwing to the wolves, I'd be all for it. I'd yell "fuck them" at the top of my lungs and I'd yell "take that, motherfuckers" at them as they were being eaten. I would raise my arms in triumph as the wolves shit out whatever disgusting brown remnants were left of them. They're the ones that deserve our contempt and hate. They sold propaganda for money. They are ruining our country.

2) Even if it's not my problem, it's this country's problem. I think this is a great country, and it would be bad for us and bad for the world if we failed as a country.

3) My daughter is 16 years old. God knows how much damage con man don craven congressional republicans could cause if nobody checks his power. I don't want that kind of future for my daughter.

Nothing to worry about. Our kids are more connected to the rest of the world than we are. I see this nothing more than some old grumpy, pissed off men in NoWhereville, America venting about how the world is changing around them, and they don't like it. Your kids will be fine as long as you raised them to not fall into the same trap as they did. And if their kids are just as narrow minded and self-limiting, they aren't going to get very far, and won't be of significance in the 21st century... Less competition for my kid from them...Someone needs to continue to be at the bottom of the bell curve...

Again, not my problem....

Submitted by zk on May 18, 2017 - 5:38pm.

flu wrote:
Less competition for my kid from them...Someone needs to continue to be at the bottom of the bell curve...

There's something I can work with.

Submitted by zk on May 18, 2017 - 5:59pm.

Hallelujah. Someone who gets it:

"Fox News founder made this the hate-filled, moronic country it is today"

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/fea...

And he did it for money. I'm glad he's dead.

Submitted by flyer on May 18, 2017 - 10:32pm.

I'm somewhere in between flu and FIH when it comes to my perspective on the current state of the country. I also think this is a great country and would not want to see it fail.

That said, as flu touched upon, positioning ourselves and our families so we are pretty much "immune" to whatever the future brings seems like a good idea. Even then--there are really no guarantees(except for death and
taxes)--but it's probably one of the best shots we each have at continuing to live the lives we want to live.

Submitted by flu on May 18, 2017 - 10:37pm.

zk wrote:
flu wrote:
Less competition for my kid from them...Someone needs to continue to be at the bottom of the bell curve...

There's something I can work with.

Well seriously, let's put this in perspective...

Which do you think is better.

Hand out a feel good, sob story to a kid and tell him that it's not his/her fault that he is failing, that's is (insert you favorite minority group to blame), and tell him/her that XYZ government official will fix all their problems without lifting a finger.

or...

Telling the kid, hey, the world ain't fair. What are you going to do, cry about it, and give up? Man/woman up, or go home.

I was pissed off before about this, but as AN pointed out to me, it really doesn't affect my family or me. Because we're busy finding ways around everything. Trump, the US, or the US government can't stop the rest of the world, the rest of the world's economy and opportunities. If folks in this country want to brainwash their kids into self-limiting their opportunity, well it's their choice. I feel sorry for their kids, but again... not my problem.

Submitted by flu on May 18, 2017 - 10:51pm.

.

Submitted by flyer on May 18, 2017 - 10:54pm.

Good points, flu. And the whining is not confined to just one group or part of the country. Can't tell you how many times in the last few years we've heard the CA whiners complaining about how they, and/or their kids can't afford to stay here, can't find the jobs they want here, can't afford to buy homes here, etc. It's probably only going to get worse, but, as you said. . . not my problem.

Submitted by zk on May 19, 2017 - 7:26am.

flu wrote:

I was pissed off before about this, but as AN pointed out to me, it really doesn't affect my family or me. Because we're busy finding ways around everything. Trump, the US, or the US government can't stop the rest of the world, the rest of the world's economy and opportunities. If folks in this country want to brainwash their kids into self-limiting their opportunity, well it's their choice. I feel sorry for their kids, but again... not my problem.

Typical Asians. Finding a way to make it work regardless of the environment and not letting obstacles stop you.

Obviously that's great. Are you not concerned that con man don might cause problems that go beyond economic hardship for the people who voted for him?

Fareed Zakaria, who otherwise usually seems pretty reasonable to me, said that trump "became president" when he bombed Syria. That may be the stupidest and most dangerous comment a political pundit has ever made. Here's a "man" who cares about nothing but his ego, and who controls a massive nuclear arsenal, and you tell him he sucks until he bombs somebody, and then you tell him he's great. Brilliant.

The bombardment that con man don is receiving right now is clearly bothering him. If the only thing anybody praises him for is bombing other countries...

It seemed for a while like he might consolidate power in the manner of a fascist or an authoritarian. Recently, that has abated as the country's system of checks and balances seems to be working. If that trend reverses again, it could get ugly.

We've already lost credibility around the world.

He's compromised our intelligence with his bungling.

It's late and I don't have the energy to write a complete list. But you get the picture.

I get your point about it not being your problem if it doesn't affect you (even if I don't feel that way). My response to that is that there is a significant chance that his ignorance, lying, incompetence, lack of self control, and mental illness could end up causing you very real problems.

Submitted by flu on May 19, 2017 - 8:30am.

Well, the great thing about this country is that once a president gets elected, he gets only gets about 2 years before he needs to become preoccupied with getting re-elected.

At this point, I think you would probably want things to continue to be a complete disaster so that interesting things happen mid term.

It might be entirely possible you have a bi-partisan initiative to eventually get rid of him if things continue blowing up the way they are.

Meanwhile, all these allegations and distractions are good. It keeps Trump and crew from pushing their agenda...

Meanwhile, grab some popcorn and enjoy the circus.

I wouldn't worry about the rest of the world and losing credibility. I'm sure most people are pretty convinced it's just Trump. You judge people by individuals not groups or where they are from. On a personal note (your kids), they will be judged on their achievements, not Trump's failures and a faction of this country's retardedness.

So again, not my problem, not your problem either.

When things return back to something more rationale and reasonable in our government in the middle, perhaps we do need to include some of those folks NoWhereVille and do something... Ignoring them won't make problems go away, they just come back with a different ugly head.

I guess Bush Junior wasn't as bad in retrospect... At least he has a sense of humor...

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/george...

BTW: Saudi Arabia just bought the largest oil refinery in the US I think.. So much for making america great again... Lol...

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/03/saud...

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 19, 2017 - 9:09am.

Flu, I'm all for personally financially insulating ourselves as much a possible.

The irony is that in order to insulate ourselves we have to become more cosmopolitan world citizens, not less, since opportunities are now worldwide. So by dragging down the USA, the deplorables are pushing our most educated citizens further away from them.

In the future, our kids' opportunities are more likely to be in big metros around the world than in NoWhereville, as you so well put it.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 19, 2017 - 9:33am.

ZK, it's kinda sickening to see what is going on with Trump.

Trump is transactional in the real estate sense. He wants to win the prize which is a building or whatever. He doesn't care about the whole.

We are losing credibility around the world and that will affect our aggregate wealth. We are fixated on process whereas China is focused on results. They will surpass us in GDP in 2018 and all the multinationals will treat China as the most important market in the world... the center of gravity is shifting.

It's not bad if you're a global cosmopolitan. But it's traumatic for people who believe in American exceptionalism in all areas.

The one positive with Trump is that it finally unmasked the deplorables. Just as Roger Ailes understood, I always knew that the deplorable base was there to be exploited. I have been accused me of being unkind, but I was just saying like it is.

Do you know that Trump has 85% approval from his voters? So no matter what he does, they still support him.

The contradiction with deplorables is that they want to "tell it like is" but they can't look in the mirror and "see what is there" plus they get upset and we "tell it like it is."

Me, I'm a proud globalist, condescending cosmopolitan. I try my best to be compassionate to people who are nice. But those Trump supporters don't deserve anything but the same shit they dish out.

Zk, you are too kind to a fault. People don't appreciate it, all they see is weakness. Remember, Trump is the leader and his flock are just like him.

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