Chinese government’s funding of Southland school’s language program fuels controversy
A Hacienda Heights school will get free materials — books, a laptop, playing cards — from the Confucius Classroom language program. Critics see a propaganda tool, but backers say fears are unfounded
April 04, 2010|By Ching-Ching Ni
Most students in the Chinese language class at Cedarlane Middle School in Hacienda Heights have never heard of Confucius.
“Con what?” asked Ricardo Ramirez, 11, who loves to impress classmates with his loud and clear greetings of “Hello!” and “I love you!” in Mandarin.
But a proposal to bring more resources to his school’s Chinese program has sparked heated debate over whether the Chinese government — in the ancient philosopher’s name — should have a role in helping American schoolchildren learn. It’s a controversy that lays bare tensions in a community that has undergone a major demographic shift and is now more than a third Asian.
In January, the Hacienda La Puente Unified School District board voted 4 to 1 to adopt a new Chinese language and culture class at Cedarlane next fall, at no cost to the district.
Confucius Classroom is paid for by the Chinese government’s Chinese Language Council International, also known as Hanban.
“I am not against the teaching of foreign languages, but this is a propaganda machine from the People’s Republic of China that has no place anywhere in the United States,” said John Kramer, 73, a former superintendent of the district who has been vocal in the debate.
Supporters insist the concerns are unwarranted.
“A lot of people are saying it’s a way for the Chinese people to brainwash our students. They are really misinformed,” said Jay Chen, vice president of the Hacienda La Puente board. “From Oregon to Rhode Island, public schools have implemented the same program. As far as I can see, nothing sinister is going on.”
Chinese language programs have become increasingly popular with China’s rise as a superpower. In 2004, Beijing capitalized on that demand by creating the Confucius Institute to promote Chinese language and culture at the university level. The program, officials say, is much like Germany’s Goethe-Institut and France’s Alliance Française.
People worried in 2004 too, said Susan Pertel Jain, executive director of the UCLA Confucius Institute. “Everybody was concerned we would be told what to do, what to teach. That’s not the situation at all. It’s very much a partnership,” she said of UCLA’s program, which opened in 2007.
As of last year, there were more than 280 Confucius Institutes worldwide. Last year, Hanban expanded the idea, launching the Confucius Classroom to focus on kindergarten through 12th grade education. Already, there are about 200 Confucius Classrooms.
no_such_reality
April 25, 2010 @
7:39 AM
Where’s the third option that Where’s the third option that says the Schools are broken and the sooner we figure out where all the money is going and fix it the better?
Coronita
April 25, 2010 @
7:42 AM
no_such_reality wrote:Where’s [quote=no_such_reality]Where’s the third option that says the Schools are broken and the sooner we figure out where all the money is going and fix it the better?[/quote]
Because reality is, that’s not a practical option, with all the bureaucracy, unions, etc.
NotCranky
April 25, 2010 @
8:21 AM
Our elites who have always Our elites who have always kept us in a sea of propaganda no longer have a need for exclusive possession. They have less need for maintaining us as private servants. The Chinese elites see the opening…and the usefulness of the breakdown of the xenophobic anti-yellow-man that has been methodically preserved by means of propaganda, until recently.
It never hurts to speak the language of power. Why use your own fears to deny children the opportunity?
Allan from Fallbrook
April 25, 2010 @
12:07 PM
Russell wrote:
It never hurts [quote=Russell]
It never hurts to speak the language of power. Why use your own fears to deny children the opportunity?[/quote]
Yup. This is analogous to the 1980s, when Japan, Inc. was ascendant in “Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere 2.0”, buying up Pebble Beach and Rockefeller Center. You had young biz types reading Sun Tzu’s “Art of War” and Musashi’s “Book of Five Rings”, trying to glean lessons from our soon-to-be Japanese masters.
Whoops. Different generation, different iteration, but same old story.
China will get old before they get rich, and soon enough you’ll hear Freddy Mercury singing in the background: “Another one bites the dust”.
NotCranky
April 25, 2010 @
1:15 PM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=Russell]
It never hurts to speak the language of power. Why use your own fears to deny children the opportunity?[/quote]
Yup. This is analogous to the 1980s, when Japan, Inc. was ascendant in “Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere 2.0”, buying up Pebble Beach and Rockefeller Center. You had young biz types reading Sun Tzu’s “Art of War” and Musashi’s “Book of Five Rings”, trying to glean lessons from our soon-to-be Japanese masters.
Whoops. Different generation, different iteration, but same old story.
China will get old before they get rich, and soon enough you’ll hear Freddy Mercury singing in the background: “Another one bites the dust”.[/quote]
Maybe the next generation of spies is learning Mandarin in East Los Angles right now? “No hay mal que por bien no venga”
scaredyclassic
April 25, 2010 @
4:55 PM
No objection hell I’d send my No objection hell I’d send my kids over there for a year of overseas study and propaganda
CA renter
April 25, 2010 @
10:28 PM
Not enough info. Is there Not enough info. Is there any propaganda in their language courses, or is it the fact that people don’t like foreign countries paying for our foreign language classes?
Heck, I’d LOVE for them to pay for our kids’ classes! 😉
briansd1
April 25, 2010 @
10:42 PM
Don’t we fund schools in Don’t we fund schools in foreign countries?
Coronita
April 26, 2010 @
12:16 AM
CA renter wrote:Not enough [quote=CA renter]Not enough info. Is there any propaganda in their language courses, or is it the fact that people don’t like foreign countries paying for our foreign language classes?
Heck, I’d LOVE for them to pay for our kids’ classes! ;)[/quote]
Well, actually a lot of folks from the Manhattan area in NY are sending their kids (non-chinese) to chinese school.
If you’re serious about this.. There’s plenty of them if that are rather inexpensive : I’m counting about 8-12 separate schools.
Actually, I’m trying to find a “good one”. Specifically trying to avoid the schools that have the “negative reinforcement approach”….That is, *some* traditional form of teaching is through extreme criticism…
(Translated)
*You did it wrong…again.
*Come on this is so easy, I’m going to give you one more try…You should know how to do it by now..Other people can.
*Why are you doing it that way? You did it wrong again?
As far as public schools.. Hell, I think we need better programs to teach Engrish, let alone Chinese!
CA renter
April 26, 2010 @
3:50 PM
flu wrote:
Well, actually a [quote=flu]
Well, actually a lot of folks from the Manhattan area in NY are sending their kids (non-chinese) to chinese school.
If you’re serious about this.. There’s plenty of them if that are rather inexpensive : I’m counting about 8-12 separate schools.
Actually, I’m trying to find a “good one”. Specifically trying to avoid the schools that have the “negative reinforcement approach”….That is, *some* traditional form of teaching is through extreme criticism…
(Translated)
*You did it wrong…again.
*Come on this is so easy, I’m going to give you one more try…You should know how to do it by now..Other people can.
*Why are you doing it that way? You did it wrong again?
As far as public schools.. Hell, I think we need better programs to teach Engrish, let alone Chinese![/quote]
Thanks, flu. Our kids have been taking Mandarin and Spanish classes for a couple of years now, but it’s the more informal, “fun” stuff that will hopefully better prepare them for when they pursue it more formally (no, they won’t have a choice, as far as I’m concerned). 😉 You can PM me if you’re looking for something less formal/more fun, as I think your daughter is also young, and this school might be opening something nearer to you in the future. They also have some teachers who teach down there at other schools, but I’m not sure if those schools are more “negative” or “positive” in their instructional techniques.
I’ve even heard that they are going to open a full-immersion Chinese school here in North County (maybe public???). We will probably consider it if they open it in time for our kids.
I’m going to keep your list for the future, so appreciate your links to those schools.
briansd1
April 26, 2010 @
1:32 PM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
China will get old before they get rich, [/quote]
I agree that China will get old before it gets rich.
But it’s not the per capita wealth that counts in world politics.
The total size of the economy and the total size of the military are most important. When China’s GDP surpasses ours, they will become the most powerful economically.
I actually envy Chinese-Americans, especially those young people who went to college here and understand American culture and also feel comfortable back in Asia.
Pacific rim trade will dominate in the future and those young people will be well-placed to benefit economically.
The “real” Americans in the heartland who know nothing about the world will be at a marked disadvantage.
Did you notice the Chinese tour buses at Carlsbad Factory Stores on weekends? There are 1.3 billion Chinese. We’d better get used to the hordes of Chinese tourists at Disney, Sea World and Vegas.
Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru and Mexico are also becoming large economies. In California, Chinese and Spanish, in addition to English, are the languages of the future.
NotCranky
April 25, 2010 @
8:46 AM
flu wrote:no_such_reality [quote=flu][quote=no_such_reality]Where’s the third option that says the Schools are broken and the sooner we figure out where all the money is going and fix it the better?[/quote]
Because reality is, that’s not a practical option, with all the bureaucracy, unions, etc.[/quote]
“In large states public education will always be mediocre, for the same reason that in large kitchens the cooking is usually bad.”
Friedrich Nietzsche
no_such_reality
April 25, 2010 @
9:14 AM
Russell wrote:flu [quote=Russell][quote=flu][quote=no_such_reality]Where’s the third option that says the Schools are broken and the sooner we figure out where all the money is going and fix it the better?[/quote]
Because reality is, that’s not a practical option, with all the bureaucracy, unions, etc.[/quote]
“In large states public education will always be mediocre, for the same reason that in large kitchens the cooking is usually bad.”
Friedrich Nietzsche[/quote]
We need to stop feeding the beast.
Coronita
April 25, 2010 @
7:46 AM
Hey, you can even get Hey, you can even get confusionized(sic) in Oklahoma!!!
God help us. This is what happens when you borrow trillions of dollars from another country without ever plans of paying it back. that foreign country ends up using the economic clout in the most creative ways…. for better or worse……
Interestingly, I find it ironic that said government would be interested in teachings of Confusion(sic), when it doesn’t even let it’s own people read and write freely…
Oh well, I guess we need to get use to it more and more. Next up, campaign contributions from foreign governments.
poorgradstudent
April 26, 2010 @
10:11 AM
China has a lot of incentive China has a lot of incentive for more Americans and others to learn Chinese. American students have long term economic incentive to learn Chinese. As a country we also have political incentive to have more Chinese speakers. Look at the horrible time our government has had with Arabic translators.
Obviously we should be skeptical of everything the Chinese government does. At the same time, a joint project to encourage more Americans to learn Chinese doesn’t have a lot of downside to either culture. Obviously there should be scrutiny of curriculum, but I can’t see a problem.
AK
April 26, 2010 @
10:25 AM
So China routinely jams So China routinely jams foreign shortwave radio broadcasts (VOA, Deutsche Welle, BBC, etc.) which I know from first-hand experience. Or maybe those high-power Chinese opera broadcasts on adjacent frequencies were a mere coincidence. Internet access is heavily monitored and filtered. Yet we Americans are paranoid and xenophobic if we express a bit of skepticism about these free educational materials?
I’m well versed in the sordid history of “Yellow Peril” hysteria and anti-Asian discrimination, and those who’ve met me can verify that I’m kinda yellowish myself. (A bit toasted in some areas because I don’t like wearing sunscreen.) Yet I’m wary of Americans who are eager to sell out our country to foreign interests for some temporary personal advantage, much as Chinese historians revile Li Hongzheng and other Qing-era officials who sold out Chinese sovereignty for personal gain.
April 25, 2010 @ 7:33 AM
The link to the
The link to the article…
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/04/local/la-me-confucius-school4-2010apr04
Chinese government’s funding of Southland school’s language program fuels controversy
A Hacienda Heights school will get free materials — books, a laptop, playing cards — from the Confucius Classroom language program. Critics see a propaganda tool, but backers say fears are unfounded
April 04, 2010|By Ching-Ching Ni
Most students in the Chinese language class at Cedarlane Middle School in Hacienda Heights have never heard of Confucius.
“Con what?” asked Ricardo Ramirez, 11, who loves to impress classmates with his loud and clear greetings of “Hello!” and “I love you!” in Mandarin.
But a proposal to bring more resources to his school’s Chinese program has sparked heated debate over whether the Chinese government — in the ancient philosopher’s name — should have a role in helping American schoolchildren learn. It’s a controversy that lays bare tensions in a community that has undergone a major demographic shift and is now more than a third Asian.
In January, the Hacienda La Puente Unified School District board voted 4 to 1 to adopt a new Chinese language and culture class at Cedarlane next fall, at no cost to the district.
Confucius Classroom is paid for by the Chinese government’s Chinese Language Council International, also known as Hanban.
“I am not against the teaching of foreign languages, but this is a propaganda machine from the People’s Republic of China that has no place anywhere in the United States,” said John Kramer, 73, a former superintendent of the district who has been vocal in the debate.
Supporters insist the concerns are unwarranted.
“A lot of people are saying it’s a way for the Chinese people to brainwash our students. They are really misinformed,” said Jay Chen, vice president of the Hacienda La Puente board. “From Oregon to Rhode Island, public schools have implemented the same program. As far as I can see, nothing sinister is going on.”
Chinese language programs have become increasingly popular with China’s rise as a superpower. In 2004, Beijing capitalized on that demand by creating the Confucius Institute to promote Chinese language and culture at the university level. The program, officials say, is much like Germany’s Goethe-Institut and France’s Alliance Française.
People worried in 2004 too, said Susan Pertel Jain, executive director of the UCLA Confucius Institute. “Everybody was concerned we would be told what to do, what to teach. That’s not the situation at all. It’s very much a partnership,” she said of UCLA’s program, which opened in 2007.
As of last year, there were more than 280 Confucius Institutes worldwide. Last year, Hanban expanded the idea, launching the Confucius Classroom to focus on kindergarten through 12th grade education. Already, there are about 200 Confucius Classrooms.
April 25, 2010 @ 7:39 AM
Where’s the third option that
Where’s the third option that says the Schools are broken and the sooner we figure out where all the money is going and fix it the better?
April 25, 2010 @ 7:42 AM
no_such_reality wrote:Where’s
[quote=no_such_reality]Where’s the third option that says the Schools are broken and the sooner we figure out where all the money is going and fix it the better?[/quote]
Because reality is, that’s not a practical option, with all the bureaucracy, unions, etc.
April 25, 2010 @ 8:21 AM
Our elites who have always
Our elites who have always kept us in a sea of propaganda no longer have a need for exclusive possession. They have less need for maintaining us as private servants. The Chinese elites see the opening…and the usefulness of the breakdown of the xenophobic anti-yellow-man that has been methodically preserved by means of propaganda, until recently.
It never hurts to speak the language of power. Why use your own fears to deny children the opportunity?
April 25, 2010 @ 12:07 PM
Russell wrote:
It never hurts
[quote=Russell]
It never hurts to speak the language of power. Why use your own fears to deny children the opportunity?[/quote]
Yup. This is analogous to the 1980s, when Japan, Inc. was ascendant in “Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere 2.0”, buying up Pebble Beach and Rockefeller Center. You had young biz types reading Sun Tzu’s “Art of War” and Musashi’s “Book of Five Rings”, trying to glean lessons from our soon-to-be Japanese masters.
Whoops. Different generation, different iteration, but same old story.
China will get old before they get rich, and soon enough you’ll hear Freddy Mercury singing in the background: “Another one bites the dust”.
April 25, 2010 @ 1:15 PM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=Russell]
It never hurts to speak the language of power. Why use your own fears to deny children the opportunity?[/quote]
Yup. This is analogous to the 1980s, when Japan, Inc. was ascendant in “Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere 2.0”, buying up Pebble Beach and Rockefeller Center. You had young biz types reading Sun Tzu’s “Art of War” and Musashi’s “Book of Five Rings”, trying to glean lessons from our soon-to-be Japanese masters.
Whoops. Different generation, different iteration, but same old story.
China will get old before they get rich, and soon enough you’ll hear Freddy Mercury singing in the background: “Another one bites the dust”.[/quote]
Maybe the next generation of spies is learning Mandarin in East Los Angles right now? “No hay mal que por bien no venga”
April 25, 2010 @ 4:55 PM
No objection hell I’d send my
No objection hell I’d send my kids over there for a year of overseas study and propaganda
April 25, 2010 @ 10:28 PM
Not enough info. Is there
Not enough info. Is there any propaganda in their language courses, or is it the fact that people don’t like foreign countries paying for our foreign language classes?
Heck, I’d LOVE for them to pay for our kids’ classes! 😉
April 25, 2010 @ 10:42 PM
Don’t we fund schools in
Don’t we fund schools in foreign countries?
April 26, 2010 @ 12:16 AM
CA renter wrote:Not enough
[quote=CA renter]Not enough info. Is there any propaganda in their language courses, or is it the fact that people don’t like foreign countries paying for our foreign language classes?
Heck, I’d LOVE for them to pay for our kids’ classes! ;)[/quote]
Well, actually a lot of folks from the Manhattan area in NY are sending their kids (non-chinese) to chinese school.
If you’re serious about this.. There’s plenty of them if that are rather inexpensive : I’m counting about 8-12 separate schools.
http://www.chineseschoolsd.com/
http://www.sandiegochineseschool.com/
http://www.sdhxcs.net/web/
http://www.sdcca-nccs.org/
http://www.yucailearningtree.com/
Actually, I’m trying to find a “good one”. Specifically trying to avoid the schools that have the “negative reinforcement approach”….That is, *some* traditional form of teaching is through extreme criticism…
(Translated)
*You did it wrong…again.
*Come on this is so easy, I’m going to give you one more try…You should know how to do it by now..Other people can.
*Why are you doing it that way? You did it wrong again?
As far as public schools.. Hell, I think we need better programs to teach Engrish, let alone Chinese!
April 26, 2010 @ 3:50 PM
flu wrote:
Well, actually a
[quote=flu]
Well, actually a lot of folks from the Manhattan area in NY are sending their kids (non-chinese) to chinese school.
If you’re serious about this.. There’s plenty of them if that are rather inexpensive : I’m counting about 8-12 separate schools.
http://www.chineseschoolsd.com/
http://www.sandiegochineseschool.com/
http://www.sdhxcs.net/web/
http://www.sdcca-nccs.org/
http://www.yucailearningtree.com/
Actually, I’m trying to find a “good one”. Specifically trying to avoid the schools that have the “negative reinforcement approach”….That is, *some* traditional form of teaching is through extreme criticism…
(Translated)
*You did it wrong…again.
*Come on this is so easy, I’m going to give you one more try…You should know how to do it by now..Other people can.
*Why are you doing it that way? You did it wrong again?
As far as public schools.. Hell, I think we need better programs to teach Engrish, let alone Chinese![/quote]
Thanks, flu. Our kids have been taking Mandarin and Spanish classes for a couple of years now, but it’s the more informal, “fun” stuff that will hopefully better prepare them for when they pursue it more formally (no, they won’t have a choice, as far as I’m concerned). 😉 You can PM me if you’re looking for something less formal/more fun, as I think your daughter is also young, and this school might be opening something nearer to you in the future. They also have some teachers who teach down there at other schools, but I’m not sure if those schools are more “negative” or “positive” in their instructional techniques.
I’ve even heard that they are going to open a full-immersion Chinese school here in North County (maybe public???). We will probably consider it if they open it in time for our kids.
I’m going to keep your list for the future, so appreciate your links to those schools.
April 26, 2010 @ 1:32 PM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
China will get old before they get rich, [/quote]
I agree that China will get old before it gets rich.
But it’s not the per capita wealth that counts in world politics.
The total size of the economy and the total size of the military are most important. When China’s GDP surpasses ours, they will become the most powerful economically.
I actually envy Chinese-Americans, especially those young people who went to college here and understand American culture and also feel comfortable back in Asia.
Pacific rim trade will dominate in the future and those young people will be well-placed to benefit economically.
The “real” Americans in the heartland who know nothing about the world will be at a marked disadvantage.
Did you notice the Chinese tour buses at Carlsbad Factory Stores on weekends? There are 1.3 billion Chinese. We’d better get used to the hordes of Chinese tourists at Disney, Sea World and Vegas.
Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru and Mexico are also becoming large economies. In California, Chinese and Spanish, in addition to English, are the languages of the future.
April 25, 2010 @ 8:46 AM
flu wrote:no_such_reality
[quote=flu][quote=no_such_reality]Where’s the third option that says the Schools are broken and the sooner we figure out where all the money is going and fix it the better?[/quote]
Because reality is, that’s not a practical option, with all the bureaucracy, unions, etc.[/quote]
“In large states public education will always be mediocre, for the same reason that in large kitchens the cooking is usually bad.”
Friedrich Nietzsche
April 25, 2010 @ 9:14 AM
Russell wrote:flu
[quote=Russell][quote=flu][quote=no_such_reality]Where’s the third option that says the Schools are broken and the sooner we figure out where all the money is going and fix it the better?[/quote]
Because reality is, that’s not a practical option, with all the bureaucracy, unions, etc.[/quote]
“In large states public education will always be mediocre, for the same reason that in large kitchens the cooking is usually bad.”
Friedrich Nietzsche[/quote]
We need to stop feeding the beast.
April 25, 2010 @ 7:46 AM
Hey, you can even get
Hey, you can even get confusionized(sic) in Oklahoma!!!
http://article.wn.com/view/2009/10/20/Chinese_studies_planned_for_Confucius_Classroom_Grand_openin/
God help us. This is what happens when you borrow trillions of dollars from another country without ever plans of paying it back. that foreign country ends up using the economic clout in the most creative ways…. for better or worse……
Interestingly, I find it ironic that said government would be interested in teachings of Confusion(sic), when it doesn’t even let it’s own people read and write freely…
Oh well, I guess we need to get use to it more and more. Next up, campaign contributions from foreign governments.
April 26, 2010 @ 10:11 AM
China has a lot of incentive
China has a lot of incentive for more Americans and others to learn Chinese. American students have long term economic incentive to learn Chinese. As a country we also have political incentive to have more Chinese speakers. Look at the horrible time our government has had with Arabic translators.
Obviously we should be skeptical of everything the Chinese government does. At the same time, a joint project to encourage more Americans to learn Chinese doesn’t have a lot of downside to either culture. Obviously there should be scrutiny of curriculum, but I can’t see a problem.
April 26, 2010 @ 10:25 AM
So China routinely jams
So China routinely jams foreign shortwave radio broadcasts (VOA, Deutsche Welle, BBC, etc.) which I know from first-hand experience. Or maybe those high-power Chinese opera broadcasts on adjacent frequencies were a mere coincidence. Internet access is heavily monitored and filtered. Yet we Americans are paranoid and xenophobic if we express a bit of skepticism about these free educational materials?
I’m well versed in the sordid history of “Yellow Peril” hysteria and anti-Asian discrimination, and those who’ve met me can verify that I’m kinda yellowish myself. (A bit toasted in some areas because I don’t like wearing sunscreen.) Yet I’m wary of Americans who are eager to sell out our country to foreign interests for some temporary personal advantage, much as Chinese historians revile Li Hongzheng and other Qing-era officials who sold out Chinese sovereignty for personal gain.