New Tax Plan

User Forum Topic
Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 28, 2017 - 1:14pm

Getting rid of local and state tax deductions is definitely no bueno for California.

What do you like or don't like?

Submitted by spdrun on September 28, 2017 - 1:40pm.

We'll double(*) the standard deduction.

(*) - Restrictions apply, personal exemption going away. Double is redefined as 15% more.

Yeah, not good that people in states that already pay more to DC than they get back will pay EVEN more. Maybe corp and passthrough tax will offset that, maybe not.

I see a lot of "double" speak.

Submitted by harvey on September 28, 2017 - 2:07pm.

Three brackets instead of seven.

Because it is so hard to keep track of all those brackets!

Submitted by spdrun on September 28, 2017 - 2:52pm.

Yeah, the bracket thing is silly considering you mostly look up from a table or pick the top rate than add a %.

Submitted by harvey on September 28, 2017 - 3:03pm.

Or use a computer.

Submitted by all on September 28, 2017 - 3:29pm.

It will put tens of thousands of computers out of job.

Submitted by andymajumder on September 28, 2017 - 5:53pm.

Write & create pressure on Darrel Issa & Hunter to oppose the bill in its current form. This would result in tax increase for the coastal areas and transfer more wealth from blue states to red states. Issa barely managed to survive this time, if he supports something like this, that's the end for him. They could cap itemized deduction to some number but removing state and local taxes from deductions completely would be really bad for states like CA, NY, NJ, MA, CT etc. BTW, 30% of US GDP contribution comes these 5 states alone.

Submitted by SK in CV on September 28, 2017 - 6:52pm.

Huge tax cuts for the very wealthy and the high income business owners. Almost nothing good for anyone else.

Submitted by SK in CV on September 28, 2017 - 7:50pm.

dup. weird.

Submitted by plm on September 29, 2017 - 10:12am.

I actually don't have a problem with the new tax plan. Seems to simplify things with most people now using the standard deduction if state and property taxes are no longer allowed. It's not like you could write it all of anyhow if you are hit by AMT.

No AMT to calculate as well since that is removed.

I didn't see any details on capital gains rate though.

I do think they should add back in the 39.6 tax bracket for the rich though. They probably have to in order to get the Democrats to support it.

I would guess that most high income folks here would pay less taxes with the new plan due to the 25 percent rate instead of 28 and 33.

Submitted by spdrun on September 29, 2017 - 10:28am.

States like NY, NJ, and CA already pay more to DC than they get back in subsidies. What cutting deductions for state tax will do is hurt middle-class taxpayers in those states. They'd have to pay even more to DC while not benefiting from Federal spending in their states.

Submitted by harvey on September 29, 2017 - 12:09pm.

plm wrote:
I actually don't have a problem with the new tax plan. Seems to simplify things with most people now using the standard deduction if state and property taxes are no longer allowed. It's not like you could write it all of anyhow if you are hit by AMT.

No AMT to calculate as well since that is removed.

I didn't see any details on capital gains rate though.

I do think they should add back in the 39.6 tax bracket for the rich though. They probably have to in order to get the Democrats to support it.

I would guess that most high income folks here would pay less taxes with the new plan due to the 25 percent rate instead of 28 and 33.

It's not neutral for upper-middle-class Californians.

It is specifically designed that way. It's meant to be punishment and restitution.

The only goal of the Republican economic agenda is to buy votes with taxpayer money: Shift funding from urban blue areas that vote Democratic to rural red areas the vote Republican.

The latest attempt at health care legislation did exactly that, and the tax plan does the same.

His claim of "tax cuts for everybody" is as hollow as his claim as "health insurance for everybody." The proposed legislation doesn't even attempt to honor it.

Submitted by harvey on September 30, 2017 - 7:42am.

Some specifics:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...

Yes, the article is from the liberal media. I would post the Fox News article for balance but I can't find it as their front page stories are about Trump blaming the mayor of Puerto Rico for the hurricane, why Hillary must go to jail, and how Ivanka was dissed by a librarian over Dr. Seuss books. No I'm not kidding. Not a single story about the tax plan.

For those that are looking at the chart and thinking they just got a 8+ percent tax cut because you make good money: I've got some bad news. The study defines the top 1% as income over $900K. And Californians will see far less benefit than Texans for reasons already explained.

So in unless you invested in Avatar and own several coastal properties, here's how you are going to help make America Great Again:

Despite repeated promises from Republican lawmakers that the plan is designed to provide relief to the middle class, nearly 30 percent of taxpayers with incomes between $50,000 and $150,000 would see a tax increase, according to the study by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. The majority of households that made between $150,000 and $300,000 would see a tax increase.

Submitted by flu on October 1, 2017 - 12:16pm.

Meh. I said it before and I'll say it again. It doesn't matter who is in charge.....when they talk about tax law changes , w2 wage earners in the upper income always end up footing the bill the most.

Frankly, I don't care because I am surprised most of you would be surprised that taxes wouldn't be going up ... I am pretty sure my taxes would have gone up under Hillary too.

That said, I am glad I am making a lot more this year than last year with my new job, and my investments have more or less been doing great. And it's great living free and clear and only need to be saving/invest in for my kids college...assuming mine goes to college. Maybe after Trump, people don't need to go to college. Kinda like America's version of the cultural revolution. Lolol

Some my.my buddies just got their offers from Apple, Facebook, etc...ok, given they are probably above average performers. I was blown away by their comp packages..... Just senior level engineers, not management , around $300-$350k total. I'd say tech is still doing pretty well in CA

Submitted by bewildering on October 1, 2017 - 2:23pm.

harvey wrote:
The majority of households that made between $150,000 and $300,000 would see a tax increase.

Yep. I do not see any way our household will benefit if property taxes and state taxes are removed as deductions. The 150,000 to 300,000 earners already pay more as a proportion of income than any other group. This plan will make it worse.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 5, 2017 - 11:19am.

flu wrote:
Meh. I said it before and I'll say it again. It doesn't matter who is in charge.....when they talk about tax law changes , w2 wage earners in the upper income always end up footing the bill the most.

Frankly, I don't care because I am surprised most of you would be surprised that taxes wouldn't be going up ... I am pretty sure my taxes would have gone up under Hillary too.

That said, I am glad I am making a lot more this year than last year with my new job, and my investments have more or less been doing great. And it's great living free and clear and only need to be saving/invest in for my kids college...assuming mine goes to college. Maybe after Trump, people don't need to go to college. Kinda like America's version of the cultural revolution. Lolol

Some my.my buddies just got their offers from Apple, Facebook, etc...ok, given they are probably above average performers. I was blown away by their comp packages..... Just senior level engineers, not management , around $300-$350k total. I'd say tech is still doing pretty well in CA

What an interesting post.

You say you don’t care but you care a great deal. BTW, Hillary had a tax plan whereas Trump’s promises are nebulous as always. The only certainty with Trump is that he’s out for himself.

And about Trump, remember that the “American Cultural Revolution” is aided and abetted by the Republicans. But no wonder because the American pitchfork peasants vote for the exactly opposite of what they want. At least the Chinese pitchfork peasants who supported Mao’s cultural revolution were more rational. what characterizes pitchfork peasants universally is the low education culture. However, now in the 21st century, the Chinese have become wiser and universally want university education for their kids (even is they can’t afford it, they still want it). It won’t be long before China matches the educational levels of South Korea.

Anyway... we can let the free market and the free flow of capital decide who deserves the economic rewards of the future.

Submitted by flu on October 5, 2017 - 7:26pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
flu wrote:
Meh. I said it before and I'll say it again. It doesn't matter who is in charge.....when they talk about tax law changes , w2 wage earners in the upper income always end up footing the bill the most.

Frankly, I don't care because I am surprised most of you would be surprised that taxes wouldn't be going up ... I am pretty sure my taxes would have gone up under Hillary too.

That said, I am glad I am making a lot more this year than last year with my new job, and my investments have more or less been doing great. And it's great living free and clear and only need to be saving/invest in for my kids college...assuming mine goes to college. Maybe after Trump, people don't need to go to college. Kinda like America's version of the cultural revolution. Lolol

Some my.my buddies just got their offers from Apple, Facebook, etc...ok, given they are probably above average performers. I was blown away by their comp packages..... Just senior level engineers, not management , around $300-$350k total. I'd say tech is still doing pretty well in CA

What an interesting post.

You say you don’t care but you care a great deal. BTW, Hillary had a tax plan whereas Trump’s promises are nebulous as always. The only certainty with Trump is that he’s out for himself.

And about Trump, remember that the “American Cultural Revolution” is aided and abetted by the Republicans. But no wonder because the American pitchfork peasants vote for the exactly opposite of what they want. At least the Chinese pitchfork peasants who supported Mao’s cultural revolution were more rational. what characterizes pitchfork peasants universally is the low education culture. However, now in the 21st century, the Chinese have become wiser and universally want university education for their kids (even is they can’t afford it, they still want it). It won’t be long before China matches the educational levels of South Korea.

Anyway... we can let the free market and the free flow of capital decide who deserves the economic rewards of the future.

I don't care anymore than I use to because I am used to getting screwed in taxes before....some of you folks that are getting screwed over now for the first time are complaining about what the rest of us that use to get regularly screwed over have been complaining about , but fell on deaf ears... That's why it doesn't bother us nearly as much as apparently it's bothering you. We've already been seasoned by it.... Welcome to tax hell... Doesn't feel good when you get taxed to support people and regions you don't like, does it? Welcome to tax hell.

Submitted by harvey on October 11, 2017 - 9:42am.

Lol, blame the realtors:

Koch Group Says Realtors Among Those ‘Jeopardizing’ Tax Overhaul

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...

Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 5, 2017 - 10:23am.

Among the Tax Bill’s
Biggest Losers: Blue
State Taxpayers Who Earn
More Than $200,000

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017...

Submitted by flu on December 5, 2017 - 10:56am.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Among the Tax Bill’s
Biggest Losers: Blue
State Taxpayers Who Earn
More Than $200,000

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/05/us/politics/tax-bill-salt.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Those of us that had documented AGIs above $200k were going to lose either way with Hillary or Trump. With this change, more people in CA are going to lose overall....

Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 5, 2017 - 11:04am.

Flu, I think Hillary however would have narrowed the deficit which is apparently no longer a consideration.

Submitted by flu on December 5, 2017 - 11:15am.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Flu, I think Hillary however would have narrowed the deficit which is apparently no longer a consideration.

Ah ha ha ha ha... I want whatever you are smoking...

Everyone in california now gets to pay more taxes to special interests and causes out in Randomplace, America when they really don't want to.... Join the club. Some of us have been doing this for the past 8 years. I don't think you've learned your lesson quite yet Brian.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 5, 2017 - 11:26am.

Flu, just spell out the lesson to be earned because I don’t get it.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 5, 2017 - 11:49am.

More on the consequences to California.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/us...

Submitted by flu on December 5, 2017 - 1:21pm.

The lesson to learn is....

It's easy to say "we" should be taxed more to support programs/people/things that "we" think should be supported (regardless of how those who actually bear the tax burden should feel)...so long as the "we" does not include "me"....

Welcome to the past 8 years for many of us tax- classified W2 "wealthy".

Hey, I don't like the tax "reform" any more than anyone else. Hopefully, many of you will now think twice about encouraging government to "raise taxes" on select groups of people to fund a program/group,especially when it's for something you don't really like....Aren't you glad some of your taxes paid will now go to Christian Evangelists in the South who are interested in teaching good family values and religion in schools? (sarcasm)

There are always lessons to be learned from everything.

Submitted by spdrun on December 5, 2017 - 1:34pm.

Maybe this is evidence that what most Californians and Northeasterners want isn't the same as what people in Oklahoma and Mississippi want. Maybe the world would be better with Calexit, NYexit, etc. Almost 240 years is a pretty good lifespan for a united country -- why do we need to be tied to each other forever? The Union shouldn't be a suicide pact, sometimes amicable divorce is the best option.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 5, 2017 - 2:06pm.

flu wrote:
The lesson to learn is....

It's easy to say "we" should be taxed more to support programs/people/things that "we" think should be supported (regardless of how those who actually bear the tax burden should feel)...so long as the "we" does not include "me"....

Welcome to the past 8 years for many of us tax- classified W2 "wealthy".

Hey, I don't like the tax "reform" any more than anyone else. Hopefully, many of you will now think twice about encouraging government to "raise taxes" on select groups of people to fund a program/group,especially when it's for something you don't really like....Aren't you glad some of your taxes paid will now go to Christian Evangelists in the South who are interested in teaching good family values and religion in schools? (sarcasm)

There are always lessons to be learned from everything.

Flu, in proportion, the military or war takes up the biggest amount of spending. That's the lesson I learned. Only stupid people who want to feel nationalistic and badass by association would want more of that. Plus you have to account for the lifetime benefits and support of the service people who return whack and disabled from a tour.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 5, 2017 - 2:10pm.

spdrun wrote:
Maybe this is evidence that what most Californians and Northeasterners want isn't the same as what people in Oklahoma and Mississippi want. Maybe the world would be better with Calexit, NYexit, etc. Almost 240 years is a pretty good lifespan for a united country -- why do we need to be tied to each other forever? The Union shouldn't be a suicide pact, sometimes amicable divorce is the best option.

I agree. San Diego could a free trade zone. Something like a Hong Kong on the Pacific. A tech hub, an entrepôt center, a financial center. We have the location, the climate, the labor.

Submitted by henrysd on December 5, 2017 - 11:28pm.

I hear so many negative comments on tax bill. Yes the house bill is negative to Californians: low mortgage amount to deduct interest, limit prop tax to $10K, remove SALT deduction, and 35% tax rate kicks in so early starting from $260K family income. House bill hits hard on those $200-500K income range Californians. But the senate bill is much different and quite friendly to pigs on this board:
1) Mortgage amount to deduct back to $1m.
2) Added many lower tax rates to benefit family with income less than $200K. For high earners, $32% tax rate kick in much later at $320K (all assuming married couple) and it is low 24% before hitting that threshold.
3) $2000 child credit. Not reward family with multiple children, but still decent credit.
4) The new AMT tax is much more friendlier. Do not listen to journalists about the bad things on that, do you own calculations. In 2016 tax filing, the AMT exemption is $83,800 and exemption phase-out starts at $159,700. Senate bill AMT bill increases exemption to $109,400 and exemption phase-out starts at $208,400. For a family with $200-400K, currently most are hit by AMT here due to high SALT tax. My guess is the new plan probably would hit only about 20% of people in the income range, those get hit is by much smaller amount. For a family with $300K AMT income (federal AGI - mortgage interest - charitable contribution), the old AMT tax is $66.9K and new AMT tax is $56.3, a full $10K less.
5) Multiple children and high SALT, high mortgage and high property tax are normally higher earner, thus are already paying AMT and those deduction are not allowed currently any way.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on December 6, 2017 - 10:01am.

Ok.

Still this bill makes me despise republicans. I'm registered green, dislike many democrats, sometimes vote republican, but they have LOST ME FOREVER.

republicans can SCREW OFF for the foreseeable future for screwing calif.

This is just too much pure raw bullshit with an evil heart. dont tell me youre helping me when youre not.

That coupled with Roy Moore means the republicans can go to hell. If and when I see my Repub rep at the 4th of July parade I will be yelling at him from the sidelines if he votes for this. Piece of shit shakes people's hands. Voting DIRECTLY against my interest???!! bullshit

Submitted by harvey on December 6, 2017 - 10:03am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
Ok.

Still this bill makes me despise republicans. I'm registered green, dislike many democrats, sometimes vote republican, but they have LOST ME FOREVER. This is just too much pure raw bullshit with an evil heart. That coupled with Roy Moore means the republicans can go to hell. If and when I see my Repub rep at the 4th of July parade I will be yelling at him from the sidelines if he votes for this. Piece of shit shakes people's hands. Voting DIRECTLY against my interest???!! bullshit

Trump has now directly endorsed Moore.

Pretty much said that our teenage daughters being molested is a small price to pay for a lower corporate tax rate.

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