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[flu]

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[spdrun]

Anyone remember: “Ford to City: DROP DEAD?”

[SD Realtor]

Taking odds on federal taxpayer money bailing out pensions.

[paramount]

Another victim of public sector unions.

Public Sector Unions are a Terminal Cancer.

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=SD Realtor]Taking odds on federal taxpayer money bailing out pensions.[/quote]

No fair, I already made that prediction several months ago But I was talking about the city of L.A.

But Man I just killed a big rattle snake outside my back door so there (I know but I had to tell someone)

And yes I did it with a shovel.

[mike92104]

It’s ashamed you killed it. I use the shovel scoop them into a large trashcan and relocate them later.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]Another victim of public sector unions.

Public Sector Unions are a Terminal Cancer.[/quote]

That has got to be one of the most ignorant statements you could possibly make. Detroit’s problems are tied to the demise of the manufacturing sector (largely because of **mismanagement,** not unions), white flight, and the resulting demographic/population changes.

Some history:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/19/usa-detroit-timeline-idUSL1N0FP00F20130719

http://www.npr.org/2012/09/11/160768981/racial-regional-divide-still-haunt-detroits-progress

http://www.changinggears.info/2011/03/23/detroit-a-boom-town-goes-bust/

[paramount]

Detroit Gave Unions Keys To The City, And Now Nothing Is Left

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kylesmith/2013/02/21/detroit-gave-unions-keys-to-the-city-and-now-nothing-is-left/

We keep hearing that the car industry in Detroit is “on the rebound” or that “Detroit is back.” In fact, the city itself is on its back, and it’s bounding toward bankruptcy or a state takeover. How did one of America’s most storied cities land in this predicament? While the city population has shrunk (from a peak population of 1.8 million in 1950 to 714,000 in the last census), it has hardly reduced the government that serves it. All you really need to know about Detroit, which is facing a $327 million budget gap, is that last year it was discovered to still be paying for a “horseshoer” (or farrier) on the Detroit Water & Sewer Department (DWSD) payroll. This individual costs some $56,000 in pay and benefits, despite the city not having any horses to shoe in his department.

Union bosses insisted the DWSD (average compensation: $86,000) needs more, not fewer, such unionized employees, a view associated with a broad spectrum of thinkers from Jimmy Hoffa to the Keynesians running the United States. The DWSD has more than twice as many employees per gallon of water pumped as that other paragon of Midwestern governance, Chicago. An independent report said four out of five employees in the bloated department were redundant and discovered a thicket of union regulations driving up costs. Plumbers complained that, due to union work rules, they had to wait to fix pipes until duly authorized “operators” came along first to shut them off.

The Detroit Federation of Teachers, which enjoys rich pay packages (corrected for purchasing power, Michigan teachers are the best paid in the nation, reported the Mackinac Center for Policy Policy), would do the UAW proud. Its employees pay only ten percent of the cost of their insurance premiums. While they take extravagant numbers of sick days or personal days — 8 per teacher — they also cash in on “unused sick days” to the tune of $14.5 million a year. What other industries are so surprised when you aren’t sick that they pay you a bonus? Then again, we’re talking about a group that paid people to quit — $4.1. million in “termination bonuses” were handed out to teachers’ union members in 2010-2011. And last December the city inexplicably sent out archaic “longevity bonuses” ranging from $150 to $750 depending on years of service for non-union municipal employees, even though the benefit was removed for unionized employees in 2009.

The Detroit Service Employees’ International Union did even better, soaking individuals for its own purposes. It arranged to corral thousands of people receiving Medicaid payments to care for sick friends or relatives into its union, for the purpose of charging these people dues, which it siphons directly from the Medicaid checks. So far SEIU has raked in $34 million this way.

From 2008 to 2011, health insurance costs for Detroit employees and retirees have jumped 62% to $186 million a year, the Detroit Free Press reported. Pension contributions in that period jumped 140 percent, from $50 million to $120 million.

To fight for their lavish compensation, unions have proven prepared to fight back with any weapon at hand. Appointing emergency financial managers is “just like being in the slave days,” complained Iris Salters, the president of the Michigan Education Association.

What Detroit did/does is give unions the keys to the treasury until nothing is left. That day has come.

What can save Detroit?

Nothing.

[njtosd]

I grew up outside of Detroit. I rarely hear anyone mention the long term effects of the riots in the late 60s (other than the ensuing white flight). In 1990, there were still burned out buildings left over from the riots. And Mayor Coleman Young promoted the idea of continually increasing taxes on downtown businesses – who eventually found it more convenient and safer to move what was left of their businesses to the suburbs.its a sad day – but the blame should be placed on governmental short sightedness before even bothering to look at the big three or the unions.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=SD Realtor]Taking odds on federal taxpayer money bailing out pensions.[/quote]

I doubt it. I think the Feds will let the chips fall where they may in this case. The pension benefits guarantee corporation will deal with it. The bailout will occur if the PBGC ever needs a bailout. Edit: actually I don’t know if they guarantee municipal pensions. The state of Michigan could step in and do something.

Too much of a hot potato here… Black political corruption, mismanagement, etc…

[SD Squatter]

We voted for you, now bail us out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI8HRGWKCRc

[FlyerInHi]

We will see.

But I think that if there had been a Washington bailout it would have happened before bankruptcy filing.

It is said that decentralized government is so that each locality or state can be a laboratory for solutions. A large city filing for bankruptcy is a good thing. It’s better than cutting services while paying debts and further hollowing out the tax base. The thousands who will take a haircut in this process is preferable to continual decline and eventual shutting of the doors.

Detroit is a special case. It needs to scale from a city of 2 million people to 700,000.

I have a friend who lives in Livonia, mi, outside Detroit. I have no interest to ever visit. Although I keep on wondering if investing in real estate in Detroit and being an absentee owner can be profitable. Maybe I can afford a commercial building and be on the ground floor of an economic revival; or I can lose my ass and get killed by a gangster too.

[spdrun]

Why not visit? Travel never hurts, and not all of Michigan is anything like DeeeeTROIT proper.

[FlyerInHi]

I hear that Ann Arbor is nice.

Maybe visit and look at real estate. I love real estate.. Something to do with the tangible nature of it. My dream is to own an urban style building with stores below and apartments above. Don’t know if that’ll ever happen.

I know a dude who’s 95 and still manages his real estate. He sends out manual invoices every month. Very cool. I love the old fashioned hands on approach.

[moneymaker]

What big city will be next? I think Detroit is a microcosm of the country as a whole. Their white flight is like large companies going abroad (those that are big enough to afford to, that is). Their budget problems are like the national debt, just going up up up. They are going to have to pay more for the money they borrow after this is over, just like the value of the dollar will decrease due to inflation when the country finally succumbs. In my opinion there is no stopping it now, it’s just a matter of when and how. I mean the fact that their population went down means nothing, with less population service costs go down. Now if you look at average incomes that would probably be more informative, although if they are at the expense of the budget(unions) then may also be meaningless. US personal and household incomes have gone down in the last 10 years, not a good sign!

[Author]

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