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[paramount]

I read through the responses, and in the interest of brevity, my original responses were basically right on target.

Even though I didn’t know the scores of Miramar Ranch I had little doubt it was an excellent school.

It’s true – I detest public employee unions for many reasons.

But my experience with public school elem teachers – in Temecula primarily – though I’m sure it’s very similar in San Diego – is they are generally *very* dedicated and your child will get a great education/experience at either school.

Stop the madness.

Free Range Kids all the Way!!

Footnote: I’m a looser that lives in Temecula, so what do I know anyway…? Nothing is the answer.

[Rhett]

To be fair, the OP seemed more bothered about the bell schedule than test scores, though that could be a cover. This sort of brings up something that has always confused me – San Diego Unified has bell schedules all across the board, and in some cases even within a high school boundary (Scripps Ranch and University City are two that come to mind). I don’t understand why they don’t simply pick a standard time.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Rhett] . . . Like the original poster, we had a *major* problem with Miramar Ranch’s bell schedule. Our problem was the reverse – the 7:30 start is just way too early for us, and we’d much prefer a 9:00 start. But, like BearishGirl said, you can always use the after hours program and just adjust (though it makes for a LONG day for your child, and that isn’t so great)….[/quote]

Rhett, before and after-school programs for the elementary-school set are coordinated with school breakfast programs, have “homework help” and recreational activities in the afternoon and are specifically designed to cater to the needs of FT-worker parents, most of whom commute to work. I myself used them from 7-5:30 or 7:30-6 five days per week for decades. Kids should keep a schedule most convenient for their parents who support them, not the other way around, IMO. Kids are resilient and will fall into the routine that their parents set for them. Believe me when I tell you that they will still graduate from HS and get accepted into college…latchkey or no. In most cases, I believe kids who are socialized from infancy in daycare, pre-K, and a before and afterschool program are not only better-equipped to deal with HS, college and thus “real life,” they generally live in more solvent, stable households than a one-earner family with kids who stay home with ONE of the parents or other relative who may tend to over-coddle or cloister them into select pre-approved playmate groups (based upon the religious beliefs of the parents, for example). This type of parent is doing their kid(s) a great disservice, IMHO. It is these same families with kids who have only been allowed to watch 2-3 (prescreened) channels on TV (or none at all) who end up with a rebellious MS-aged child, pregnant teen or a HS-aged son secretly stockpiling weapons in his bedroom. In the past decade-plus, over-the-top “child-centric” and/or “helicopter” parents have proliferated enormously in the US, cranking out mostly inept social misfits (at the very least) in the name of “protecting them” from “bad influences” (read: people not like us). It’s wacky, IMHO. The world is just not that bad of a place.

I’m not suggesting that the OP here is one. I’m just saying that I think a lot of today’s parents make dumb or misguided decisions re their children or overly burdensome, expensive decisions on their behalf which are not necessary and don’t ultimately make their kids any happier or give them a better growing-up experience.

[Rhett]

Don’t think you quite got the gist of my message, BearishGirl. We make extensive use of the after hours program at our current school. For us, it amounted to this:

1. 7:30 bell times require incredibly early wakeups for us (we are not a well oiled machine in the morning), and we are not early to bed types.

2. 7:30 – 6:00 is a long day for a kid K-2.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Rhett]. . . 2. 7:30 – 6:00 is a long day for a kid K-2.[/quote]

True and the caregivers realize this. This is why they get long naps and a couple of snacks (along with breakfast and/or lunch if the caregiver is private). Otherwise at least breakfast is served by the school and the kindergarten child brings a bag lunch. By the time their parent picks them up at ~6:00, they are rested and happy and will wait for dinner to be prepared 🙂

Thousands of parents must have their kids in FT daycare in order to hold down FT jobs that they must commute to. It is a fact of life and there is nothing whatsoever wrong with it. If less of these young parents worked, they would likely be availing themselves of EBT cards, Healthy Families and even TANF in some cases. We can’t fault parents for desiring to support their children legitimately.

[Scarlett]

I am not sure where you find out those things but from what we know from public and private schools those things are so not true. They might have been true in Preschool.The kids don’t get to take naps starting with Kindergarden – either public or private. And no, breakfast is NOT served by school. And no, the caretakers don’t care about your child. So they are very tired and cranky when you pick them up and you still have to struggle with homework and dinner. Again they *could* do homework in afterhours, but it’s not enforced and that young of a age they don’t have the better judgement to do homework then instead of play

[bearishgurl]

Scarlett, I never stated that public schools offered naps. And not all of them offer breakfast. I stated that before and afterschool programs offer naps to (morning) kindergarteners who get out of school 2-4 hours before the rest of the elementary grades are dismissed. Some before and afterschool programs offer breakfast or they will prepare the breakfast your kid packs in their lunch. They will keep your kid’s lunch in their refrigerator and then walk or drive your kid to school, along with the rest of their charges. Then they will drive or walk over and pick up the kids after kindergarten and feed them lunch or warm up the lunches they brought and then let them rest for 2 hours or so until the other afterschoolers arrive. Then snacks are served and at least two workers are dispatched for homework help. This is the case for Children’s World and YMCA before/afterschool programs. There are several others in the communities.

The DASH program in Chula Vista is like the “6 to 6” program in SD in that it is held in the school cafeteria before and after school and dispatches 2 workers to each school (depending on number of participants) for homework help after school. A few public elementary schools offer DASH coinciding with their normal breakfast times and a few more have dedicated before/afterschool program centers on the premises of the elem school grounds. These centers are run by contractors. The kids who don’t have homework or have finished it can play on the playground or in the gym until they are picked up. Whatever is open to DASH (gym and/or playground) has a DASH worker dispatched to those areas also. Last time I looked (maybe 2005/6), DASH was relatively inexpensive (abt $37-$57 per week for the first child with slight discounts for more children of the same family). The fee is adjusted to the family incomes and is waived for new workers who were previously on TANF.

My kids loved all their daycare providers and pre-K experiences. I NEVER picked them up tired or hungry and they were very rarely sick. I got to the daycare homes (one whom took young infants) or before/afterschool center between 5:35 and 6:00 every day. In the end (2007?), I was paying about $366 mo for private before/afterschool care which had a full kitchen where they heated snacks daily and baked birthday cakes for every single child. They also had a 1 AC well-equipped playground. It was awesome.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Scarlett]…Again they *could* do homework in afterhours, but it’s not enforced and that young of a age they don’t have the better judgement to do homework then instead of play[/quote]

Scarlett, are you referring to “that young of a age” as a kindergartener? I don’t recall kindergarteners being given any homework. Kindergarten is to learn the alphabet, learn to count, learn to get along with other kids and be cooperative in groups and to play. Why would anyone expect a 3 hr per day, 4-5 yo kindergartener to do homework? Hell, some of them still have accidents, separation anxiety and can’t tie their shoes.

Am I missing something??

[Scarlett]

Well, my daughter and her friends at other schools have plenty of homework as 1st graders. Not that much in K, true. She is in school from 8:15 to 3 pm, then afterhours till 6. Has been like that in K , too.

[Rhett]

[quote=bearishgurl]Am I missing something??[/quote]

Yeah – the days of 1/2 day kindergarten went away quite a few years ago. They are getting out of school at the same time with all the other students, and they have a lot of homework (another reason we went the private school route). There is no “DASH” program in San Diego Unified. What is available varies school by school. Up in UC, after care is generally provided by the SAY program and/or the YMCA.

I’m not sure why you are contorting yourself arguing some point that really isn’t that pertinent here, because in the past two years our daughter easily comes in the top ten percent in the amount of extra care that has been used at her school. Believe me, we use it, and we know very well what after care is like at our school and what it’s like at the various grade schools in our area.

[Scarlett]

Oh, they expect when you enter the kindergarden to know the alphabet and to count. That’s what preschool is about.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Rhett][quote=bearishgurl]Am I missing something??[/quote]

Yeah – the days of 1/2 day kindergarten went away quite a few years ago. They are getting out of school at the same time with all the other students, and they have a lot of homework (another reason we went the private school route). There is no “DASH” program in San Diego Unified. What is available varies school by school. Up in UC, after care is generally provided by the SAY program and/or the YMCA.

I’m not sure why you are contorting yourself arguing some point that really isn’t that pertinent here, because in the past two years our daughter easily comes in the top ten percent in the amount of extra care that has been used at her school. Believe me, we use it, and we know very well what after care is like at our school and what it’s like at the various grade schools in our area.[/quote]

I believe that there is still both morning and afternoon kindergarten sessions in CVESD.

I’m not attempting to argue anything here. The OP stated that they didn’t want to send their kindergartener to his/her assigned school because it was dismissed too early for their convenience. I was attempting to drive home that the wheel was invented long ago to solve this problem economically in nearly every SD community (except rural areas) and it has worked for FT-worker parents for decades.

IIRC, Scarlett has posted here in the past that you guys were spending a fortune in private preschool and daycare and from her most recent posts, it doesn’t sound like you are getting your money’s worth.

The South Bay YMCA has an EXCELLENT afterschool program. And they service every single elementary school in the district. They even have a large, newish dedicated teen center to help middle-schoolers with homework which is walking distance from two middle schools. I’m not familiar with the SAY Program.

[bearishgurl]

A photo in this Primetime San Diego webpage (formerly “6 to 6”) shows that SAY SD operates an afterschool program at Standley Middle (in UC):

http://www.sandi.net/Page/1880

And best of all, it appears to be FREE! Here is the most current application:

http://www.sandi.net/cms/lib/CA01001235/Centricity/Domain/135/1213/PrimeTime-Application-SAY.pdf

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=Rhett] . . . Like the original poster, we had a *major* problem with Miramar Ranch’s bell schedule. Our problem was the reverse – the 7:30 start is just way too early for us, and we’d much prefer a 9:00 start. But, like BearishGirl said, you can always use the after hours program and just adjust (though it makes for a LONG day for your child, and that isn’t so great)….[/quote]

Rhett, before and after-school programs for the elementary-school set are coordinated with school breakfast programs, have “homework help” and recreational activities in the afternoon and are specifically designed to cater to the needs of FT-worker parents, most of whom commute to work. I myself used them from 7-5:30 or 7:30-6 five days per week for decades. Kids should keep a schedule most convenient for their parents who support them, not the other way around, IMO. Kids are resilient and will fall into the routine that their parents set for them. Believe me when I tell you that they will still graduate from HS and get accepted into college…latchkey or no. In most cases, I believe kids who are socialized from infancy in daycare, pre-K, and a before and afterschool program are not only better-equipped to deal with HS, college and thus “real life,” they generally live in more solvent, stable households than a one-earner family with kids who stay home with ONE of the parents or other relative who may tend to over-coddle or cloister them into select pre-approved playmate groups (based upon the religious beliefs of the parents, for example). This type of parent is doing their kid(s) a great disservice, IMHO. It is these same families with kids who have only been allowed to watch 2-3 (prescreened) channels on TV (or none at all) who end up with a rebellious MS-aged child, pregnant teen or a HS-aged son secretly stockpiling weapons in his bedroom. In the past decade-plus, over-the-top “child-centric” and/or “helicopter” parents have proliferated enormously in the US, cranking out mostly inept social misfits (at the very least) in the name of “protecting them” from “bad influences” (read: people not like us). It’s wacky, IMHO. The world is just not that bad of a place.

I’m not suggesting that the OP here is one. I’m just saying that I think a lot of today’s parents make dumb or misguided decisions re their children or overly burdensome, expensive decisions on their behalf which are not necessary and don’t ultimately make their kids any happier or give them a better growing-up experience.[/quote]

BG,

Where in the world did you get this nonsensical view from? Please provide data to back up the claim that children of attentive parents have worse outcomes than those who spend less time with their parents…and more time in daycare or after-school programs, especially when you’re talking about mid-higher socio-economic groups. I’m dying to see this research.

The most solvent and stable households that I’ve known tended to have a SAHP. Not sure where you’re getting your information from, but if you look up the research on having SAH parents vs. “latch key” kids, you’ll see that those with parents at home tend to have better outcomes.

BTW, you ought to ask teachers what they think about those after-school programs.

[paramount]

If I understand the original issue – and I think I do – the real answer for the OP if at all possible is for one parent/guardian to resign from their job immediately, place your house on the market and move to a place like Temecula where one income will/can support a family.

Your kids are more important than your zip code or what car you drive damn it.

[Author]

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