Is the “Vision” unrealistic for Bay Park & Bay Ho?

[ltsddd]

[quote=spdrun]Self-drivin’ cars, BABY! If cars can drive 5′ from each other under computer control, and crash less (thus can be smaller with smaller crumple zones), highway density can be increased. This is only 50% tongue in cheek.[/quote]

The potential of malfunction software/hardware and thus crashes and the liability of trillion $$$ lawsuits that followed would make the automakers think twice about making self-driving cars available to the masses. I think the risk/liability trumps the cool factor.

[joec]

So do people know a lot of women who take public transit in SD? From talking to the wife in the past when we were in the Bay area, she hated it since there were always crazies who would expose themselves/jerk off on the bus/bart/train, etc…

There were also people who would look creepy, stare, etc and it just didn’t feel as safe…

During rush hour, there was less of this, but it was also packed so you have issues of cramming into buses/trains/fondling types/etc…

Just seems if you lose 50% of the population to public transit, good luck trying to make the numbers work.

It also doesn’t seem as safe in general for women (while men would probably love some hottie pressing against them like in those japan videos)…

[CA renter]

You’ve nailed it, Joe. That’s a HUGE reason, if not the primary reason, why many women won’t take mass transit (or bike by themselves late at night or in isolated areas). Why do women drive SUVs? Safety. Why do women want to live in clean, well-maintained, suburban areas? Safety…and good schools, which are also considered “good” largely because they are safer than other schools.

Safety is a major concern for most women.

[FlyerInHi]

Talking about higher density, I’m a big fan of Jonathan Segal’s works in San Diego — infill development, lofts, etc.. Great modern California design. We need more of that all over.

[afx114]

[quote=ltsdd]The potential of malfunction software/hardware and thus crashes and the liability of trillion $$$ lawsuits that followed would make the automakers think twice about making self-driving cars available to the masses. I think the risk/liability trumps the cool factor.[/quote]

The potential of human error already greatly exceeds that for software/hardware error. Tell me which is more dangerous:

• a fully tested automated system
• a bunch of sexting teenagers, drunken post-party 20-somethings, vision-impaired slow-reacting seniors, sleepy over-worked parents of 4, and roid-raging lifted truck bros

I think what we’ll see happen is that insurance costs for automated cars will be MUCH lower than that of error-prone human drivers, so manufacturers will cover those costs or roll them into the price of the cars.

We’ll probably see automation take over trucking way before it takes over commuting. The cost savings are huge: Don’t need to pay drivers, they can drive 24×7, and can “chain” up like a train, greatly improving fuel efficiency via drafting. You’re foolish if you don’t think shipping companies are already researching/testing this.

[ltsddd]

[quote=afx114][quote=ltsdd]The potential of malfunction software/hardware and thus crashes and the liability of trillion $$$ lawsuits that followed would make the automakers think twice about making self-driving cars available to the masses. I think the risk/liability trumps the cool factor.[/quote]

The potential of human error already greatly exceeds that for software/hardware error. Tell me which is more dangerous:

• a fully tested automated system
• a bunch of sexting teenagers, drunken post-party 20-somethings, vision-impaired slow-reacting seniors, sleepy over-worked parents of 4, and roid-raging lifted truck bros

I think what we’ll see happen is that insurance costs for automated cars will be MUCH lower than that of error-prone human drivers, so manufacturers will cover those costs or roll them into the price of the cars.

We’ll probably see automation take over trucking way before it takes over commuting. The cost savings are huge: Don’t need to pay drivers, they can drive 24×7, and can “chain” up like a train, greatly improving fuel efficiency via drafting. You’re foolish if you don’t think shipping companies are already researching/testing this.[/quote]

I hear what you’re saying. The point I was trying to make is that there is a lot of risks that the automakers have to assume to integrate such technologies into vehicles. It may be safer, but all it takes is a few crashes due malfunctions or system reboots for the lawyers to come knocking. Pretty much it’s carte blanche for lawsuits against the automakers for every fender bender that is to occur. Look at how much Toyota had to pay to settle the so-called sudden-acceleration cases. Now, imagine what’s the liability will be if you’re advertising and selling autopilot cars and they involved in crashes.

[spdrun]

The potential of human error already greatly exceeds that for software/hardware error. Tell me which is more dangerous:

Of course. But right now, the driver generally has responsibility for a crash. With self-driving cars, any accident will basically open the manufacturer (with multi-billion dollar deep pockets) to huge liability. The legal issues need to to be sorted first.

[spdrun]

You’ve nailed it, Joe. That’s a HUGE reason, if not the primary reason, why many women won’t take mass transit (or bike by themselves late at night or in isolated areas). Why do women drive SUVs? Safety. Why do women want to live in clean, well-maintained, suburban areas? Safety…and good schools, which are also considered “good” largely because they are safer than other schools.

This makes sense on the surface. But what’s interesting is that most denser urban areas have a female/male ratio significantly higher than 50/50. I think that MEN have the desire to protect women and push them to get SUVs, move to the ‘burbs, etc….

[joec]

I’ve also read in either Brazil or Mexico that they have female only buses or trains or whatever so this “problem” I’ve mentioned doesn’t happen. It seems like even if there were other women on the bus/train, if there were 5 rowdy guys bothering 1 girl/women, not many females would really stick up for someone else when they themselves could be a target…

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]

You’ve nailed it, Joe. That’s a HUGE reason, if not the primary reason, why many women won’t take mass transit (or bike by themselves late at night or in isolated areas). Why do women drive SUVs? Safety. Why do women want to live in clean, well-maintained, suburban areas? Safety…and good schools, which are also considered “good” largely because they are safer than other schools.

This makes sense on the surface. But what’s interesting is that most denser urban areas have a female/male ratio significantly higher than 50/50. I think that MEN have the desire to protect women and push them to get SUVs, move to the ‘burbs, etc….[/quote]

That’s probably just a matter of where the jobs are…and the single men that many of these women might want to meet. Most single/childless people don’t like living in the suburbs, especially if those suburbs are the type where everything closes down at 8:00 p.m., even on weekends. Once you have kids, everything changes. I think that women, especially those who have kids, would always choose safety over just about everything else.

[CA renter]

[quote=joec]I’ve also read in either Brazil or Mexico that they have female only buses or trains or whatever so this “problem” I’ve mentioned doesn’t happen. It seems like even if there were other women on the bus/train, if there were 5 rowdy guys bothering 1 girl/women, not many females would really stick up for someone else when they themselves could be a target…[/quote]

That would definitely make it a more appealing option, but the terminals and local routes to and from home/work would have to be equally safe.

[spdrun]

Once you have kids, everything changes. I think that women, especially those who have kids, would always choose safety over just about everything else.

Strong argument for coin-operated vasectomy machines.

[FlyerInHi]

There is a lot a research on driverless cars. While we dilly dally, I foresee China declaring some driverless car zones. They will own the manufacturing, testing and development. It’s an industry for us to lose.

Realistically, what’s a few hundred deaths for the industry of the future? Think of our own auto industry history.

[UCGal]

FWIW – I’ve never had any issue riding the bus to/from downtown. Most folks are reading books or newspapers, listening to headphones… I don’t ride the bus often – but a few times a year.

Joec – when was the last time you rode the bus? It’s not as scary as you might think.

I’m strongly considering having my kids ride the public bus home from middle school (near the zoo) to UC, this year. I rode the bus (by myself, at age 12) at their age from UC to balboa park to take ballet classes – it’s a good life skill. And this was when Horton Plaza was a place the wack-a-doodles went on rants – pre mall.

My biggest gripe with the bus is that it doesn’t run often enough or close enough to the places I want to go.

[joec]

[quote=UCGal]FWIW – I’ve never had any issue riding the bus to/from downtown. Most folks are reading books or newspapers, listening to headphones… I don’t ride the bus often – but a few times a year.

Joec – when was the last time you rode the bus? It’s not as scary as you might think.

I’m strongly considering having my kids ride the public bus home from middle school (near the zoo) to UC, this year. I rode the bus (by myself, at age 12) at their age from UC to balboa park to take ballet classes – it’s a good life skill. And this was when Horton Plaza was a place the wack-a-doodles went on rants – pre mall.

My biggest gripe with the bus is that it doesn’t run often enough or close enough to the places I want to go.[/quote]

I haven’t rode public transit in SD in about 5 or 6 years maybe to a Padre game…which was the last time.

I honestly don’t have a concern personally, but when I lived in SF, my wife hated public transit for those reasons I’ve mentioned above…

I use to ride BART and the bus all the way to the city, berkeley, you name it at age 16 or so and walk all over Berkeley as well so as a “guy”, I was never that scared of any of that.

I rode the bus as well younger for piano lessons, etc…That was like 30+ years ago though.

What I found more annoying is rowdy kids that I honestly want to beat down on the bus…personally.

Generally, men are concerned with different things on public transit as they would never expose themselves to me or anything. If a nice lady would do that, I guess she is very welcome to.

Similar to movie theaters now and how I hate going as well, I just HATE all the young kids, teenagers…

Unlike other countries, I feel the youth of america (a lot of them) have no sense of public courtesy…

Lastly, if you ride the bus EVERYDAY, you’re bound to be harassed eventually…Sorta like if you drive EVERYDAY, you’ll find yourself in a road rage argument eventually as well…

It’s one thing to do it once a week, but everyday, a whole year, someone will bother a young girl alone. I guarantee it will happen.

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