Unpermitted addition on house I just bought

[sdrealtor]

fyi, mediation is a first step and is not binding. Arbitration is mostly likely the next step after that and is binding.

[UCGal]

Who is providing mediation/arbitration? Is this through a consumer or government agency or is this something contractually required? (Arbitration clause.)

I’m not a fan of arbitration clauses. We learned the hard way that if the other party doesn’t pay their portion of the fees – the arbitration screeches to a halt. Your choice is walk away (and lose your portion of the fees you’ve paid) or pay their fees for them. And there’s no recourse (appeal). If the arbitrator makes a decision pulled out of their ass… oh well. They could make a decision that because it’s Tuesday that the person with the alphabetical first letter of the name wins… nothing you could do about it. No appealing to a higher court.

[sdrealtor]

I just gave general information on the due process. The standard CA real estate purchase agreement stipulates parties agree to non-binding mediation as a first step. There is also an arbitration clause that is signed by both parties in most every case. Refer to the purchase agreement for details.

[billfan]

Yes the sellers agreed to mediation in the contract, so that’s why we thought it’s be a good first step. My broker recommended this place but any other recommendations are appreciated:

http://www.realestatemediationcenter.com/

[NotCranky]

I took an attempted breach of contract, failure to perform by a seller there. It ended well and was conducted quite well. Certainly, it is going to depend on what leverage you have no matter where you go.

[sdsurfer]

I met a guy and have his card from an investment meeting by the name of Ian Scattergood that has a business called The Permit Pro.

I believe he specializes in this kind of stuff. He said he’s helped plenty of people get permits long after the work has been done, but I personally have never worked with him so I’m not going to vouch for him.

I would look him up and give him a ring if I was in your shoes.

Definitely a tough situation, but I would think the inspector’s job is to find stuff like they found at your home.

I would think this guy Ian’s job is to get you out of trouble in the least expensive way and he seemed to have been doing it a long time, but maybe you can let us know how this all pans out.

[sdrealtor]

I have heard stories about guys like that with experience/connections to get permit issues resolved in City Hall. I would defintely check out that avenue also.

[Fearful]

Why not do nothing? Is the city going to condemn your house? Or are you planning to sell it in the near future? If you can get money out of your seller or title policy, certainly do so. But if your only motivation is having fully permitted remodeling work, consider letting go of that desire. If you already have unpermitted work, you may as well just add more.

If, for example, you do not expect to sell the house for 20 years, a lot could happen between now and then. Worst case you simply disclose to the buyer that there is unpermitted work on the property.

[Kingside]

You might consider going down to the planning department, schmooze a little, and ask in a roundabout way, “what architects do you like working with?” They won’t specifically give you a recomendation, but if you can find a professional you know they like who will be doing a submission for you, that person can oftentimes work wonders if not get you loads of time to deal with the situation.

[billfan]

I would love to just “do nothing” but the senior inspector already said it will go to Code Enforcement in 30 days if I dont apply for a permit (which of course I dont have the money or nor the plans drawn up for…we dont even know specifically what needs to be done, and wont without digging up the kitchen floor into the concrete foundation to find out if there’s any mesh or rebar in it. If there is, it may not need to be a complete tear down, but if there isn’t, it would need to be completely re-done).

I have a meeting with Ian the “Permit Pro” on Monday so we’ll see how that goes. I’m a little skeptical but will play it by ear.

I also wrote a letter to my councilman in my district. He actually called this morning and his rep is working with me right now. They asked me to fax them the inspector findings and they are going to try to help me work with the development office to see what can be done.

I really want to do things the right way, but not when the city inspectors are being so aggressive and unreasonable, especially knowing that I’m not responsible for any of this mess. I just bought the house but to them the current owner is the current owner, they don’t care. Hopefully my councilman can help shed some light into this bad system and come up with some ways we can get some leniency.

[EconProf]

Billfan, you are doing all the right things, especially bringing in your Councilman, and we really sympathize with you.
City building inspectors vary in their reasonableness and flexibility, and it looks like you really had bad luck by getting a mean one, plus a mean supervisor.
I’ve had work done once where a permit seemed superflous and costly, so I told the (licensed) contractor to “Do it to code, but don’t pull a permit”. On one occasion the unpermitted work was discovered, but because the work was to code I just paid extra to have the permit pulled after the fact.
A lot of permits are really silly, and the Development Office is actually a profit center for city government. They charge a huge hourly rate to review plans, and inflate the hours involved as well. I believe you even need to pull a permit and have an inspection just to replace a water heater in your home.

[Fearful]

[quote=billfan]I would love to just “do nothing” but the senior inspector already said it will go to Code Enforcement in 30 days if I dont apply for a permit [/quote]

You can have all the code violations in the book, but it sure seems to me that a house couldn’t be condemned unless it poses a significant hazard to the occupants. Cities don’t just kick people out of houses for minimal reasons. I’m not saying that this is what you should do, but based on what you have written here it sure seems to me like a viable fallback position.

The building department, as with all municipal government offices, is desperate for money and is trying to avoid being shut down. Building inspectors and the permit offices just don’t have the work flow they used to. It is sad they are bullying you; I recall how picky the inspector was that came around to look at our pool.

[Anonymous]

“we got the proper permits because we’re good law abiding citizens”

That was your first mistake. Never call the city. Never. Don’t get a permit unless the project is easily visible from the street. The job of an inspector is to find things that are wrong. They are not happy until you aren’t.
Use good plumbers and electricians and make sure everything is up to code. Make the house safe.
Don’t use permits.
I learned this the same way you are: experience.
Say after me: Inspectors suck. Inspectors always suck. Inspectors always will suck.

Repeat until frustrated.

[billfan]

We had Ian Scattergood over to the house this morning. He was very knowledgeable and I’m sure he can help if we decide to go the route of bringing the house up to code, but it will cost us about $4k to have him draw up all the plans, plus $2k for permits, plus god knows how much for all the actual work. We just don’t have the money right now so I’m really hoping our councilman can help us. I sent them the inspector findings and they are supposedly going to help us work with the development office. I really don’t know what happens on Feb 18th (that’s the 30 day deadline that the inspector said we have to submit plans, which will certainly not happen)…I suppose it goes to code enforcement, and then who knows how that’ll go. We have about 5.5 months left on our current permit, which they wont sign off because of the addition issue. I dont know where the 30 days comes from. It all just seems so arbitrary. I suppose we could just not do anything until our permit is about to run out then ask for an extension or do the minimum to show that we’re trying, but it’s just so dumb…we shouldnt have to use silly loopholes or delay tactics. We should just be able to get a reasonable person to give us time and understanding…neither of which it seems the city has or is willing to give.

[XBoxBoy]

Billfan,

This has been one of the more interesting threads in a long time. I’m hoping that you’ll keep us updated as to how things work out, who is helpful, who is not, etc. Needless to say, I’m not envious of your situation, but I am very curious to see how it gets resolved.

Thanks for sharing,

XBoxBoy

[Author]

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