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September 9, 2015 at 4:46 PM #21674September 9, 2015 at 4:51 PM #789224CoronitaParticipantSeptember 9, 2015 at 5:20 PM #789225poorgradstudentParticipant
Really interesting data dump there, especially as parents of a little one who are currently investigating school choices.
September 9, 2015 at 6:45 PM #789227njtosdParticipantI heard a lot about this test that didn’t seem encouraging.
My daughter said it was 2 hours a day over 10 days for a total of twenty hours. To compare, the California Bar is about the same (although it is administered over three days). And there is no homework given for those two weeks and no apparent learning taking place during those weeks. I shouldn’t even start thinking about all of this. I hate the Common Core, which appears to be something like the least common denominator.September 10, 2015 at 6:19 AM #789233CA renterParticipant[quote=njtosd]I heard a lot about this test that didn’t seem encouraging.
My daughter said it was 2 hours a day over 10 days for a total of twenty hours. To compare, the California Bar is about the same (although it is administered over three days). And there is no homework given for those two weeks and no apparent learning taking place during those weeks. I shouldn’t even start thinking about all of this. I hate the Common Core, which appears to be something like the least common denominator.[/quote]There’s a lot of money to be made with all of this testing and the related curriculum changes. Lots and lots of money.
September 10, 2015 at 8:33 AM #789235AnonymousGuest[quote=CA renter]There’s a lot of money to be made with all of this testing and the related curriculum changes. Lots and lots of money.[/quote]
That’s a really compelling argument.
I particularly like all the evidence you’ve provided.
(Cue the confirmation bias dance and links to fringe websites … maybe we can even work shadowstats into the mix!)
September 10, 2015 at 9:52 AM #789237CoronitaParticipantI wouldn’t go as far to say this is about making money. The intentions are good, but some things I’m just left scratching my head… Here’s an example. Here is the sort of common core math problems, that my kid has been practicing on a computer program that is being used by our school…
The problem is to solve a very simple subtraction problem 511475…
The idea is to figure out which of the 4 methods to use the fewest number of “steps” to solve the problem…
Here are the different “methods
1)Method #1: The one of the far right is the traditional way of subtracting… Its suppose to take 5 steps…
…You borrow 10 to make 11, and subtract 5 to get 6 (2steps)
…You borrow 100 to and subtract 70 to get 30 (2 steps)
…You subtract 400400 to get 0 (1 step)2)Method#2: The one on the far left is called the “make 100’s/10’s/etc”.. Basically, you start with the small number and figure out how many hundreds it takes to get to the final number without going over… And then you add…Then you figure out how many 10’s it takes to get to the final number without going over, and then you add…Then you figure out how many 1’s it takes to get to the final number and add..
So for example,
a. starting at 475, you count by tens to get to 505… You get 30, and you add that to 475, which is 505.
b. Then you start at 505 and you figure out how many ones it takes to get to 511 (so that is 6)….
c. And then you add 30 with 6 ==> 36This method supposedly takes 3 steps. Ok, I’m fine with this.
Method #3 and #4: The middle two “methods” I call the totally foobared methods because I’m trying to understand how either of them can be “easier” than either doing it the traditional way or the make 100’s/10’s/etc method….
3.Method #3: The method that is second from the right goes like:
a)take either number, and figure out how much it takes to get to a number that is “friendly” (base 100 or base 10)
511>500 : subtract 11
b)Subtract using the friendly number
500475==>25 (supposedly kids are suppose to do this in their head…I doubt it…See my comment below)
c)add what you subtracted back to the answer
25+10 =>35
+1 =>365 total steps…Though I would disagree..If this problem was slightly different (say 511476…The kid is not going to be able to do 500476 in their head…They will end up subtracting 500476 using the some traditional way, which defeats the entire point of this approach… Which is why imho I call this the method really foobared way of doing it.
4.Method#4: The method that is second from the left goes like
Shift each number on both sides by the same amount until you get a friendly number, and subtract the friendly number
So for example…475–>500
you first add 5 to both numbers (2 steps)
you then add 20 to both numbers (2 steps)
then you subtract the result (536500) (1step)
5 total stepsAnyway, I timed my kid on doing the same problem each way….And the traditional “borrowing” method the results came out pretty quickly in my kid’s head, with a close second being the make 10’s/make100’s approach. I’m not sure what the point of the two approaches int the middle. I doubt most 345 graders could do that in their head…Which begs the question..WTF??? This is going to make kids have better math skills????
September 10, 2015 at 10:07 AM #789239no_such_realityParticipantWhat that test question does is verifies the kids ability to adaptitively use math to quickly reach answers. It determines if the student understands multiple approaches, based on the numbers, different approaches work better at different times.
People complain about common core and it is a giant shift, it’s a shift from can the kids regurgitate formulas to can the kids use math.
Although based on observation of LAUSD graduates, many struggle to even use a calculator to solve basic math.
September 10, 2015 at 10:36 AM #789241CoronitaParticipant[quote=no_such_reality]What that test question does is verifies the kids ability to adaptitively use math to quickly reach answers. It determines if the student understands multiple approaches, based on the numbers, different approaches work better at different times.
People complain about common core and it is a giant shift, it’s a shift from can the kids regurgitate formulas to can the kids use math.
Although based on observation of LAUSD graduates, many struggle to even use a calculator to solve basic math.[/quote]
Yes…but using some of those methods well most likely lead to wrong answers since its unlikely the kids will be able to do this in their heads. What’s the point if having so many approaches if it produces the wrong answer.
September 10, 2015 at 11:05 AM #789242biggoldbearParticipantWhen I looked at the problem, I immediately thought 25+11=36. Same way I would have as a kid. I then struggled to figure out the mentality behind the solutions provided.
I like the idea behind thinking about math in a more general way vs. memorizing step by step the same for every problem. My issue is if they limit how students see it, ie. 25+10+1. Not everyone will “get it” in the same or most “efficient” way. This will be interesting to see how it gets implemented and changes over the years. My daughter just started Kindergarten and has really good number sense. I just hope common core math provides more tools to use and not just a different set of rote limitations.September 10, 2015 at 11:11 AM #789243spdrunParticipantThe commoncore crap assumes that each step would take equal amounts of time. As long as there’s one approach that they’re comfortable doing and that WORKS, who gives a fuck what approach they use?
If I were doing it in my head, I’d probably say that 500 – 475 = 25. 511 – 500 = 11. 11 + 25 = 36. Basically the third method without the silly little 1 added.
Make a 100, then finish up, no need to make 10s.
September 10, 2015 at 1:19 PM #789246TheShovelerParticipantBack in the day the teacher would just hold up a flash card and the first kid who yelled out the answer won LOL.
No paper involved.
You get to calculus or trig, then you need proof’s, before that I think is a waste of energy and imagination.
Anyway IMO.
September 10, 2015 at 2:27 PM #789251poorgradstudentParticipantMy issue with that execution is step counting is a rather silly metric. Especially since the accounting of steps is minimally controversial, and arguably somewhat irrelevant.
As a TEACHING tool I can see the use. As an EVALUATION tool I don’t care for it.
September 10, 2015 at 2:37 PM #789254anParticipant[quote=poorgradstudent]My issue with that execution is step counting is a rather silly metric. Especially since the accounting of steps is minimally controversial, and arguably somewhat irrelevant.
As a TEACHING tool I can see the use. As an EVALUATION tool I don’t care for it.[/quote]
Very well said and I totally agree. It’s great tool to teach the concept, since every kid learn differently. However, for evaluation, who cares how the kid figure out 32=1, as long as they come up with the correct answer.September 10, 2015 at 6:44 PM #789262no_such_realityParticipant[quote=poorgradstudent]My issue with that execution is step counting is a rather silly metric. Especially since the accounting of steps is minimally controversial, and arguably somewhat irrelevant.
As a TEACHING tool I can see the use. As an EVALUATION tool I don’t care for it.[/quote]
You’re still thinking of tests in the old format,me very kid gets the same piece of paper. That’s notnhownthe core computer test work, they’re dynamic and based on whether or not you’re getting concepts correct, it moves you one to more complex things. Get them wrong and it moves you towards simpler things.

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