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Home Forums Financial Markets/Economics Shiller PE Ratio above 30

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  • Interest rate risk At the current (11/6/2019) yield of 2.3%, they are an extreme form of leverage. The SEC has a good short publication on the interest rate risk on treasuries. Basically the price difference(possibly discounted) will be based upon both where the current yield curve is as well as the difference on the Coupon Rate vs Market Interest Rate of the Treasury. A 30 year held for 10 years then sold is basically a 20 year Treasury when sold. If the rates are the same in 10 years as now, you would be selling a 2.3% yielding ’20’ year treasury in a market where current 20 years are yielding 2.13%. You would be able to sell at a premium. However if the interest rate increases before selling and the 20 year treasuries are yielding 3%, you will have to sell for less than the face value.
  • Inflation Only TIPS are inflation protected. On a non inflation protected ‘standard’ treasury, if it is yielding 2% while inflation is 1.5%, your actual gain is 0.5% because the tangible value of the treasury will have dropped by 1.5% while you were paid 2%. This is where boring dividend stocks have a potential advantage. The price of the stock, its revenue, its earnings and its dividends will tend to also increase by the rate of inflation while the treasury has remained the same.
  • To get a rough look of Stocks vs Treasuries, you can invert the PE ratio (provided the stock actually has earnings) and it gives you a rough idea of internal ‘yield’. A PE ratio of 30 would be a return of around 3.33% – held internal to the company if there are no dividends. PE represents P/E for the stock, E/P is effectively a yield. Of course stocks also have a risk in a increasing interest rate environment because of the rough equivalence yield to Treasury Rate.

    NOTE: Using Black Tuesday 1929 as a guide for the ‘watch out’ PE is not a good idea. There was a lot more that went into causing Black Tuesday’s crash and the depression than just PEs. The financial accounting standards in 1929 were — well you could call it the Wild West… the NINJA equivalent to the mortgage crisis.

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