OT: What to do when phantom liens show up on your house?

[Ricechex]

Hi All,
I am hoping you can give me some good Piggs advice and direction.

Here is the story:
Bought house with friend in 2001, rental house, $150K, 3% down. Re-fi of the loan in 2003, with WAMU. Loan for $145K, and got an HELOC for $100K. Zero balance on HEL. (Loan is entirely in my name–friend not on this one)

WAMU goes under, Chase gets WAMU. Chase decreases the HELOC to $30K, then cancels it altogether in 2009. Again, 0 balance.

Continue to receive statements from Chase, mortgage loan balance around $128K.

Today: I want out of the house. Friend is in the loan application process to get a loan. Her bank states that there are 2 liens on the property, one for $145K with WAMU and one for $100K with Chase. I am guessing that Chase created a new mortgage loan (the one I am down to $128K and get monthly statements), but never cancelled the $145K loan from WAMU.

I dread calling Chase tomorrow, as I hate these kinds of things, because if I get a live person, I will likely get a lot of computer oriented verbage such as “yes ma’am, these are what are records show” and patched on and on to someone that can’t help me. And, if I get lucky enough to get someone that appears helpful and competent, that will only be smoke and mirrors, as weeks later I will find out nothing has been changed, and there is some random note in the file. (I know I have to call….)

I am worried that these phantom loans are going to slow my friend’s loan process, and what if she is unable to get the loan? What if we have to sell? Could we? Wouldn’t it turn out at close of escrow that there are $245K of liens on this property?

[surveyor]

title report

I would recommend a title report (about $100) and maybe an abstract of title to show the progress of how title items have been attached to the property. If the title report or abstract can show that a lien was placed on the property erroneously, you can then show it to Chase and resolve it there.

If Chase doesn’t want to resolve it, you may have to talk to an attorney to have him work on it.

As always, face to face contact is best but if you have the documentation, lay it out for them clearly, they may back down. If they did enter a lien erroneously, you could bring a suit against them for “slander of title.”

But that’s a lawyers thing. Good luck.

[surveyor]

title report

I would recommend a title report (about $100) and maybe an abstract of title to show the progress of how title items have been attached to the property. If the title report or abstract can show that a lien was placed on the property erroneously, you can then show it to Chase and resolve it there.

If Chase doesn’t want to resolve it, you may have to talk to an attorney to have him work on it.

As always, face to face contact is best but if you have the documentation, lay it out for them clearly, they may back down. If they did enter a lien erroneously, you could bring a suit against them for “slander of title.”

But that’s a lawyers thing. Good luck.

[surveyor]

title report

I would recommend a title report (about $100) and maybe an abstract of title to show the progress of how title items have been attached to the property. If the title report or abstract can show that a lien was placed on the property erroneously, you can then show it to Chase and resolve it there.

If Chase doesn’t want to resolve it, you may have to talk to an attorney to have him work on it.

As always, face to face contact is best but if you have the documentation, lay it out for them clearly, they may back down. If they did enter a lien erroneously, you could bring a suit against them for “slander of title.”

But that’s a lawyers thing. Good luck.

[surveyor]

title report

I would recommend a title report (about $100) and maybe an abstract of title to show the progress of how title items have been attached to the property. If the title report or abstract can show that a lien was placed on the property erroneously, you can then show it to Chase and resolve it there.

If Chase doesn’t want to resolve it, you may have to talk to an attorney to have him work on it.

As always, face to face contact is best but if you have the documentation, lay it out for them clearly, they may back down. If they did enter a lien erroneously, you could bring a suit against them for “slander of title.”

But that’s a lawyers thing. Good luck.

[surveyor]

title report

I would recommend a title report (about $100) and maybe an abstract of title to show the progress of how title items have been attached to the property. If the title report or abstract can show that a lien was placed on the property erroneously, you can then show it to Chase and resolve it there.

If Chase doesn’t want to resolve it, you may have to talk to an attorney to have him work on it.

As always, face to face contact is best but if you have the documentation, lay it out for them clearly, they may back down. If they did enter a lien erroneously, you could bring a suit against them for “slander of title.”

But that’s a lawyers thing. Good luck.

[recordsclerk]

You can go to the grantor/grantee index to see what liens you have. Depending on how common your name is and how many properties you own, it is pretty simple. You will be looking for a reconveyance from the original lien holder (grantor) to you (grantee). You should be able to see what loans are still outstanding.
Here is a link:

http://arcc.co.san-diego.ca.us/arcc/services/grantorgrantee/search.aspx

[recordsclerk]

You can go to the grantor/grantee index to see what liens you have. Depending on how common your name is and how many properties you own, it is pretty simple. You will be looking for a reconveyance from the original lien holder (grantor) to you (grantee). You should be able to see what loans are still outstanding.
Here is a link:

http://arcc.co.san-diego.ca.us/arcc/services/grantorgrantee/search.aspx

[recordsclerk]

You can go to the grantor/grantee index to see what liens you have. Depending on how common your name is and how many properties you own, it is pretty simple. You will be looking for a reconveyance from the original lien holder (grantor) to you (grantee). You should be able to see what loans are still outstanding.
Here is a link:

http://arcc.co.san-diego.ca.us/arcc/services/grantorgrantee/search.aspx

[recordsclerk]

You can go to the grantor/grantee index to see what liens you have. Depending on how common your name is and how many properties you own, it is pretty simple. You will be looking for a reconveyance from the original lien holder (grantor) to you (grantee). You should be able to see what loans are still outstanding.
Here is a link:

http://arcc.co.san-diego.ca.us/arcc/services/grantorgrantee/search.aspx

[recordsclerk]

You can go to the grantor/grantee index to see what liens you have. Depending on how common your name is and how many properties you own, it is pretty simple. You will be looking for a reconveyance from the original lien holder (grantor) to you (grantee). You should be able to see what loans are still outstanding.
Here is a link:

http://arcc.co.san-diego.ca.us/arcc/services/grantorgrantee/search.aspx

[bearishgurl]

When Chase canceled your HELOC with a zero balance, they should have filed a reconveyance of that trust deed within 30 days. You want to talk to the payoff and then reconveyance people at Chase and have your HELOC account number ready. They may have to audit the account to determine there is nothing currently owing on it. Chase (or WAMU) was lax about filing the reconveyance timely and you, as the borrower, should have been on theirs (or WAMU’s) a$$ about this like glue when they sent you the letter stating that they were closing your HELOC. Offer to fax that letter to the clerk you speak to if they don’t have a notation in their computer that your HELOC has been closed. A lot of banks did this to customers with unused HELOCs within the last three years.

If you don’t get immediate satisfaction talking to the payoff/demand and reconveyance personnel (i.e. they will audit and call you back in =< 3 business days), I would send them a certified letter if they gave me ANY RUN AROUND at all on the phone (feigning tied hands/incompetence/lack of personnel excuses). Take down first and last names and employee #'s, if applicable or every bank employee you speak to. I would then send it (return receipt requested), outlining the sequence of what happened with your HELOC with copies of statements from them showing your your zero balance with a copy of the letters they sent you lowering the HELOC and then canceling it (to set forth the 30-day time-frame for filing the reconveyance), with a DEMAND that they file a reconveyance with the San Diego County Recorder, State of California, within 15 days of receipt of this letter or you will take immediate legal action against them and request attorney fees in your complaint. You last para should read, “Upon filing, please send me a conformed copy of your filed reconveyance. Thank you in advance of your anticipated swift cooperation in this matter and I shall await your timely reply.” Keep your returned certified-mail green card or download the signature affidavit for receipt from USPS.com for your record of their receipt.

Make the demand letter and mailing envelope attention to the payoff dept with your HELOC account number in the subject line.

Keep all these documents in their own file folder, back to front chronologically on the right side, with tablet pages of notes of all your phone conversations with them on the left side.

Ricechex, I’m just curious. How were you allowed to take out a HELOC on the property when your joint-tenant (co-owner) was not a cosigner/co-borrower on it?? This is very irregular-sounding to me and I have never heard of such a thing.

[bearishgurl]

When Chase canceled your HELOC with a zero balance, they should have filed a reconveyance of that trust deed within 30 days. You want to talk to the payoff and then reconveyance people at Chase and have your HELOC account number ready. They may have to audit the account to determine there is nothing currently owing on it. Chase (or WAMU) was lax about filing the reconveyance timely and you, as the borrower, should have been on theirs (or WAMU’s) a$$ about this like glue when they sent you the letter stating that they were closing your HELOC. Offer to fax that letter to the clerk you speak to if they don’t have a notation in their computer that your HELOC has been closed. A lot of banks did this to customers with unused HELOCs within the last three years.

If you don’t get immediate satisfaction talking to the payoff/demand and reconveyance personnel (i.e. they will audit and call you back in =< 3 business days), I would send them a certified letter if they gave me ANY RUN AROUND at all on the phone (feigning tied hands/incompetence/lack of personnel excuses). Take down first and last names and employee #'s, if applicable or every bank employee you speak to. I would then send it (return receipt requested), outlining the sequence of what happened with your HELOC with copies of statements from them showing your your zero balance with a copy of the letters they sent you lowering the HELOC and then canceling it (to set forth the 30-day time-frame for filing the reconveyance), with a DEMAND that they file a reconveyance with the San Diego County Recorder, State of California, within 15 days of receipt of this letter or you will take immediate legal action against them and request attorney fees in your complaint. You last para should read, “Upon filing, please send me a conformed copy of your filed reconveyance. Thank you in advance of your anticipated swift cooperation in this matter and I shall await your timely reply.” Keep your returned certified-mail green card or download the signature affidavit for receipt from USPS.com for your record of their receipt.

Make the demand letter and mailing envelope attention to the payoff dept with your HELOC account number in the subject line.

Keep all these documents in their own file folder, back to front chronologically on the right side, with tablet pages of notes of all your phone conversations with them on the left side.

Ricechex, I’m just curious. How were you allowed to take out a HELOC on the property when your joint-tenant (co-owner) was not a cosigner/co-borrower on it?? This is very irregular-sounding to me and I have never heard of such a thing.

[bearishgurl]

When Chase canceled your HELOC with a zero balance, they should have filed a reconveyance of that trust deed within 30 days. You want to talk to the payoff and then reconveyance people at Chase and have your HELOC account number ready. They may have to audit the account to determine there is nothing currently owing on it. Chase (or WAMU) was lax about filing the reconveyance timely and you, as the borrower, should have been on theirs (or WAMU’s) a$$ about this like glue when they sent you the letter stating that they were closing your HELOC. Offer to fax that letter to the clerk you speak to if they don’t have a notation in their computer that your HELOC has been closed. A lot of banks did this to customers with unused HELOCs within the last three years.

If you don’t get immediate satisfaction talking to the payoff/demand and reconveyance personnel (i.e. they will audit and call you back in =< 3 business days), I would send them a certified letter if they gave me ANY RUN AROUND at all on the phone (feigning tied hands/incompetence/lack of personnel excuses). Take down first and last names and employee #'s, if applicable or every bank employee you speak to. I would then send it (return receipt requested), outlining the sequence of what happened with your HELOC with copies of statements from them showing your your zero balance with a copy of the letters they sent you lowering the HELOC and then canceling it (to set forth the 30-day time-frame for filing the reconveyance), with a DEMAND that they file a reconveyance with the San Diego County Recorder, State of California, within 15 days of receipt of this letter or you will take immediate legal action against them and request attorney fees in your complaint. You last para should read, “Upon filing, please send me a conformed copy of your filed reconveyance. Thank you in advance of your anticipated swift cooperation in this matter and I shall await your timely reply.” Keep your returned certified-mail green card or download the signature affidavit for receipt from USPS.com for your record of their receipt.

Make the demand letter and mailing envelope attention to the payoff dept with your HELOC account number in the subject line.

Keep all these documents in their own file folder, back to front chronologically on the right side, with tablet pages of notes of all your phone conversations with them on the left side.

Ricechex, I’m just curious. How were you allowed to take out a HELOC on the property when your joint-tenant (co-owner) was not a cosigner/co-borrower on it?? This is very irregular-sounding to me and I have never heard of such a thing.

[bearishgurl]

When Chase canceled your HELOC with a zero balance, they should have filed a reconveyance of that trust deed within 30 days. You want to talk to the payoff and then reconveyance people at Chase and have your HELOC account number ready. They may have to audit the account to determine there is nothing currently owing on it. Chase (or WAMU) was lax about filing the reconveyance timely and you, as the borrower, should have been on theirs (or WAMU’s) a$$ about this like glue when they sent you the letter stating that they were closing your HELOC. Offer to fax that letter to the clerk you speak to if they don’t have a notation in their computer that your HELOC has been closed. A lot of banks did this to customers with unused HELOCs within the last three years.

If you don’t get immediate satisfaction talking to the payoff/demand and reconveyance personnel (i.e. they will audit and call you back in =< 3 business days), I would send them a certified letter if they gave me ANY RUN AROUND at all on the phone (feigning tied hands/incompetence/lack of personnel excuses). Take down first and last names and employee #'s, if applicable or every bank employee you speak to. I would then send it (return receipt requested), outlining the sequence of what happened with your HELOC with copies of statements from them showing your your zero balance with a copy of the letters they sent you lowering the HELOC and then canceling it (to set forth the 30-day time-frame for filing the reconveyance), with a DEMAND that they file a reconveyance with the San Diego County Recorder, State of California, within 15 days of receipt of this letter or you will take immediate legal action against them and request attorney fees in your complaint. You last para should read, “Upon filing, please send me a conformed copy of your filed reconveyance. Thank you in advance of your anticipated swift cooperation in this matter and I shall await your timely reply.” Keep your returned certified-mail green card or download the signature affidavit for receipt from USPS.com for your record of their receipt.

Make the demand letter and mailing envelope attention to the payoff dept with your HELOC account number in the subject line.

Keep all these documents in their own file folder, back to front chronologically on the right side, with tablet pages of notes of all your phone conversations with them on the left side.

Ricechex, I’m just curious. How were you allowed to take out a HELOC on the property when your joint-tenant (co-owner) was not a cosigner/co-borrower on it?? This is very irregular-sounding to me and I have never heard of such a thing.

[Author]

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