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May 5, 2011 at 12:11 AM #693647May 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM #692506PCinSDGuest
[quote=CA renter]
Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!
Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”
The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it![/quote]
None of those studies refer to California, which is what this thread is about. They only mention Texas and Alabama. The pay they refer to is not the pay being complained of here in CA. The attrition rate quoted is not the attrition rate in CA.
The arguments about the pay have not been how you conveniently framed it as “I don’t get that kind of salary, and I’m in “x” job”. The argument has been that the taxpayers in CA pay too much for the prison system, when looking at the pay and benefits the prison guards receive.
You feel taxpayers don’t have the right to complain about any public employee position unless they are willing and able to do that particular job.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.
Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.
May 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM #692582PCinSDGuest[quote=CA renter]
Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!
Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”
The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it![/quote]
None of those studies refer to California, which is what this thread is about. They only mention Texas and Alabama. The pay they refer to is not the pay being complained of here in CA. The attrition rate quoted is not the attrition rate in CA.
The arguments about the pay have not been how you conveniently framed it as “I don’t get that kind of salary, and I’m in “x” job”. The argument has been that the taxpayers in CA pay too much for the prison system, when looking at the pay and benefits the prison guards receive.
You feel taxpayers don’t have the right to complain about any public employee position unless they are willing and able to do that particular job.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.
Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.
May 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM #693183PCinSDGuest[quote=CA renter]
Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!
Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”
The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it![/quote]
None of those studies refer to California, which is what this thread is about. They only mention Texas and Alabama. The pay they refer to is not the pay being complained of here in CA. The attrition rate quoted is not the attrition rate in CA.
The arguments about the pay have not been how you conveniently framed it as “I don’t get that kind of salary, and I’m in “x” job”. The argument has been that the taxpayers in CA pay too much for the prison system, when looking at the pay and benefits the prison guards receive.
You feel taxpayers don’t have the right to complain about any public employee position unless they are willing and able to do that particular job.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.
Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.
May 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM #693332PCinSDGuest[quote=CA renter]
Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!
Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”
The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it![/quote]
None of those studies refer to California, which is what this thread is about. They only mention Texas and Alabama. The pay they refer to is not the pay being complained of here in CA. The attrition rate quoted is not the attrition rate in CA.
The arguments about the pay have not been how you conveniently framed it as “I don’t get that kind of salary, and I’m in “x” job”. The argument has been that the taxpayers in CA pay too much for the prison system, when looking at the pay and benefits the prison guards receive.
You feel taxpayers don’t have the right to complain about any public employee position unless they are willing and able to do that particular job.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.
Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.
May 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM #693682PCinSDGuest[quote=CA renter]
Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!
Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”
The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it![/quote]
None of those studies refer to California, which is what this thread is about. They only mention Texas and Alabama. The pay they refer to is not the pay being complained of here in CA. The attrition rate quoted is not the attrition rate in CA.
The arguments about the pay have not been how you conveniently framed it as “I don’t get that kind of salary, and I’m in “x” job”. The argument has been that the taxpayers in CA pay too much for the prison system, when looking at the pay and benefits the prison guards receive.
You feel taxpayers don’t have the right to complain about any public employee position unless they are willing and able to do that particular job.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.
Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.
May 5, 2011 at 10:41 AM #692526AnonymousGuest[quote=CA renter]Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!![/quote]
So here’s what you are saying (over and over):
The fact that I don’t want to make a drastic career change, drop everything and become a prison guard, is proof that they are not overpaid. All public employee salaries should be based upon my job preference. The State of California can never reduce the salary for any job that *I* don’t want to do.
BTW, since you haven’t signed up to be a banker, wall street type, or CEO, that means that *they* aren’t overpaid either.
[quote]Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time.[/quote]
The woman that cleans my house makes $30/hour. She does an OK job.
I just learned that my neighbor has someone working for him that he pays $25/hour. His housekeeper does a good job, at least as good as my housekeeper.
I’d like to fire my housekeeper and use the one my neighbor uses. This would save me some money and give some work to the other housekeeper who works just as hard, if not harder.
But, using your rules, I can’t get rid of my housekeeper, or reduce her salary. If I’m not willing to do her job at her pay rate (because I “envy” her?), then I can’t make any changes. I’m stuck with her, at her current rate no matter what.
That’s how it works, right?
May 5, 2011 at 10:41 AM #692602AnonymousGuest[quote=CA renter]Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!![/quote]
So here’s what you are saying (over and over):
The fact that I don’t want to make a drastic career change, drop everything and become a prison guard, is proof that they are not overpaid. All public employee salaries should be based upon my job preference. The State of California can never reduce the salary for any job that *I* don’t want to do.
BTW, since you haven’t signed up to be a banker, wall street type, or CEO, that means that *they* aren’t overpaid either.
[quote]Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time.[/quote]
The woman that cleans my house makes $30/hour. She does an OK job.
I just learned that my neighbor has someone working for him that he pays $25/hour. His housekeeper does a good job, at least as good as my housekeeper.
I’d like to fire my housekeeper and use the one my neighbor uses. This would save me some money and give some work to the other housekeeper who works just as hard, if not harder.
But, using your rules, I can’t get rid of my housekeeper, or reduce her salary. If I’m not willing to do her job at her pay rate (because I “envy” her?), then I can’t make any changes. I’m stuck with her, at her current rate no matter what.
That’s how it works, right?
May 5, 2011 at 10:41 AM #693203AnonymousGuest[quote=CA renter]Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!![/quote]
So here’s what you are saying (over and over):
The fact that I don’t want to make a drastic career change, drop everything and become a prison guard, is proof that they are not overpaid. All public employee salaries should be based upon my job preference. The State of California can never reduce the salary for any job that *I* don’t want to do.
BTW, since you haven’t signed up to be a banker, wall street type, or CEO, that means that *they* aren’t overpaid either.
[quote]Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time.[/quote]
The woman that cleans my house makes $30/hour. She does an OK job.
I just learned that my neighbor has someone working for him that he pays $25/hour. His housekeeper does a good job, at least as good as my housekeeper.
I’d like to fire my housekeeper and use the one my neighbor uses. This would save me some money and give some work to the other housekeeper who works just as hard, if not harder.
But, using your rules, I can’t get rid of my housekeeper, or reduce her salary. If I’m not willing to do her job at her pay rate (because I “envy” her?), then I can’t make any changes. I’m stuck with her, at her current rate no matter what.
That’s how it works, right?
May 5, 2011 at 10:41 AM #693352AnonymousGuest[quote=CA renter]Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!![/quote]
So here’s what you are saying (over and over):
The fact that I don’t want to make a drastic career change, drop everything and become a prison guard, is proof that they are not overpaid. All public employee salaries should be based upon my job preference. The State of California can never reduce the salary for any job that *I* don’t want to do.
BTW, since you haven’t signed up to be a banker, wall street type, or CEO, that means that *they* aren’t overpaid either.
[quote]Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time.[/quote]
The woman that cleans my house makes $30/hour. She does an OK job.
I just learned that my neighbor has someone working for him that he pays $25/hour. His housekeeper does a good job, at least as good as my housekeeper.
I’d like to fire my housekeeper and use the one my neighbor uses. This would save me some money and give some work to the other housekeeper who works just as hard, if not harder.
But, using your rules, I can’t get rid of my housekeeper, or reduce her salary. If I’m not willing to do her job at her pay rate (because I “envy” her?), then I can’t make any changes. I’m stuck with her, at her current rate no matter what.
That’s how it works, right?
May 5, 2011 at 10:41 AM #693702AnonymousGuest[quote=CA renter]Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!![/quote]
So here’s what you are saying (over and over):
The fact that I don’t want to make a drastic career change, drop everything and become a prison guard, is proof that they are not overpaid. All public employee salaries should be based upon my job preference. The State of California can never reduce the salary for any job that *I* don’t want to do.
BTW, since you haven’t signed up to be a banker, wall street type, or CEO, that means that *they* aren’t overpaid either.
[quote]Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time.[/quote]
The woman that cleans my house makes $30/hour. She does an OK job.
I just learned that my neighbor has someone working for him that he pays $25/hour. His housekeeper does a good job, at least as good as my housekeeper.
I’d like to fire my housekeeper and use the one my neighbor uses. This would save me some money and give some work to the other housekeeper who works just as hard, if not harder.
But, using your rules, I can’t get rid of my housekeeper, or reduce her salary. If I’m not willing to do her job at her pay rate (because I “envy” her?), then I can’t make any changes. I’m stuck with her, at her current rate no matter what.
That’s how it works, right?
May 5, 2011 at 10:46 AM #692536bearishgurlParticipant[quote=pabloesqobar]…Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.[/quote]
I just want to add that the incidences CAR and UCGal’s relatives who were prison guards experienced happens nearly every week in every state in one or more institutions. There are layer upon layer of regulations and procedures those employees must follow but it’s always a judgment call. Very often, they’re damned if they take action and damned if they don’t (and damned if they take the “wrong kind, not enough,” or “too much” action). Besides these heavy “inmate-control” responsibilites, these institutions are often a hotbed of political discourse and hierarchy inside (“classification” be damned) for those who work there. The unsuspecting “new hire” or “transfer” doesn’t understand all these “ins and outs” until they have been stationed there awhile (and hopefully latch onto a “mentor” they can trust). It is very easy for an employee (new or experienced) to walk into a “situation” in there or have a “situation” walk into them that will end up being a cause of them being disciplined or their ultimate discharge.
It doesn’t help that there are many lawyers in CA who will sue the state on a prisoner’s behalf for prisoner neglect or maltreatment. This keeps an entire fleet of attorneys in each major AG’s office perpetually busy (also taxpayer funded).
May 5, 2011 at 10:46 AM #692612bearishgurlParticipant[quote=pabloesqobar]…Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.[/quote]
I just want to add that the incidences CAR and UCGal’s relatives who were prison guards experienced happens nearly every week in every state in one or more institutions. There are layer upon layer of regulations and procedures those employees must follow but it’s always a judgment call. Very often, they’re damned if they take action and damned if they don’t (and damned if they take the “wrong kind, not enough,” or “too much” action). Besides these heavy “inmate-control” responsibilites, these institutions are often a hotbed of political discourse and hierarchy inside (“classification” be damned) for those who work there. The unsuspecting “new hire” or “transfer” doesn’t understand all these “ins and outs” until they have been stationed there awhile (and hopefully latch onto a “mentor” they can trust). It is very easy for an employee (new or experienced) to walk into a “situation” in there or have a “situation” walk into them that will end up being a cause of them being disciplined or their ultimate discharge.
It doesn’t help that there are many lawyers in CA who will sue the state on a prisoner’s behalf for prisoner neglect or maltreatment. This keeps an entire fleet of attorneys in each major AG’s office perpetually busy (also taxpayer funded).
May 5, 2011 at 10:46 AM #693213bearishgurlParticipant[quote=pabloesqobar]…Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.[/quote]
I just want to add that the incidences CAR and UCGal’s relatives who were prison guards experienced happens nearly every week in every state in one or more institutions. There are layer upon layer of regulations and procedures those employees must follow but it’s always a judgment call. Very often, they’re damned if they take action and damned if they don’t (and damned if they take the “wrong kind, not enough,” or “too much” action). Besides these heavy “inmate-control” responsibilites, these institutions are often a hotbed of political discourse and hierarchy inside (“classification” be damned) for those who work there. The unsuspecting “new hire” or “transfer” doesn’t understand all these “ins and outs” until they have been stationed there awhile (and hopefully latch onto a “mentor” they can trust). It is very easy for an employee (new or experienced) to walk into a “situation” in there or have a “situation” walk into them that will end up being a cause of them being disciplined or their ultimate discharge.
It doesn’t help that there are many lawyers in CA who will sue the state on a prisoner’s behalf for prisoner neglect or maltreatment. This keeps an entire fleet of attorneys in each major AG’s office perpetually busy (also taxpayer funded).
May 5, 2011 at 10:46 AM #693362bearishgurlParticipant[quote=pabloesqobar]…Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.[/quote]
I just want to add that the incidences CAR and UCGal’s relatives who were prison guards experienced happens nearly every week in every state in one or more institutions. There are layer upon layer of regulations and procedures those employees must follow but it’s always a judgment call. Very often, they’re damned if they take action and damned if they don’t (and damned if they take the “wrong kind, not enough,” or “too much” action). Besides these heavy “inmate-control” responsibilites, these institutions are often a hotbed of political discourse and hierarchy inside (“classification” be damned) for those who work there. The unsuspecting “new hire” or “transfer” doesn’t understand all these “ins and outs” until they have been stationed there awhile (and hopefully latch onto a “mentor” they can trust). It is very easy for an employee (new or experienced) to walk into a “situation” in there or have a “situation” walk into them that will end up being a cause of them being disciplined or their ultimate discharge.
It doesn’t help that there are many lawyers in CA who will sue the state on a prisoner’s behalf for prisoner neglect or maltreatment. This keeps an entire fleet of attorneys in each major AG’s office perpetually busy (also taxpayer funded).
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