OT: and we wonder why there is so much anger.

[FlyerInHi]

Njtosd, I assume the genetics work the same in communist countries where being communist is considered conservative.

Genes are not conservartve or liberal. It’s believe people’s inate inclinations are to be fearing of change, or embracing of change.

People who are tolerant of police abuse see it as a necessary law and order measure. They rationalize it as not evil because the abuse is directed as those they consider evil. They see all the video recordings of police abuse as upsetting the status quo and therefore a danger to their place in society.

Those same people are ok with torturing suspected terrorists or profiling Muslims. They are ok with prohibiting gay marriage or even banning gays altogether as if it would work. Resistant to change and authoritarian in protecting the status quo.

There is no moral equivalence between conservatism (resistant to change) and liberalism (embracing of change). Sure, conversatives are free to advocate pragmatism, but they are not morally upright, and becoming less and less so.

[njtosd]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Njtosd, I assume the genetics work the same in communist countries where being communist is considered conservative.

Genes are not conservartve or liberal. It’s believe people’s inate inclinations are to be fearing of change, or embracing of change.

People who are tolerant of police abuse see it as a necessary law and order measure. They rationalize it as not evil because the abuse is directed as those they consider evil. They see all the video recordings of police abuse as upsetting the status quo and therefore a danger to their place in society.

Those same people are ok with torturing suspected terrorists or profiling Muslims. They are ok with prohibiting gay marriage or even banning gays altogether as if it would work. Resistant to change and authoritarian in protecting the status quo.

There is no moral equivalence between conservatism (resistant to change) and liberalism (embracing of change). Sure, conversatives are free to advocate pragmatism, but they are not morally upright, and becoming less and less so.[/quote]

No point in talking to you. You are happily smug that you are good because you say you are and others are bad because you say they are. Enjoy your viewpoint.

[njtosd]

[quote=zk][quote=njtosd]

I believe that both sides have massive noise machines designed to encourage the “manipulatees” to make political donations. [/quote]

The vast majority of Americans don’t make political donations at all. So, if such apparatus exist, they’re not working.

The right-wing noise machine creates an echo chamber large and loud enough that one who subscribes to it can get the impression that the whole world agrees with his views. Any such apparatus on the left is dwarfed by that on the right. Unless you’ve been duped into thinking that the mainstream media is liberally biased. That ruse, as I’ve said on this forum before, is one of the most brilliant strokes of propaganda in the history of American propaganda.[/quote]

If you have read anything I’ve written in these threads, you will realize that I have significant problems with both parties. Your conviction that your viewpoint is unassailable suggests that someone’s been duped, but I don’t think it’s me :).

[zk]

[quote=njtosd]
If you have read anything I’ve written in these threads, you will realize that I have significant problems with both parties.
[/quote]
You seem to imply that I don’t realize you have problems with both parties. Where are you getting that from?

[quote=njtosd]
Your conviction that your viewpoint is unassailable
[/quote]
What makes you think I have a conviction that my viewpoint is unassailable?

[FlyerInHi]

There’s a problem when one claims both sides are equally bad without having anything good to say about one’s own side, It’s perfectly fair to not speak of one’s dirty laundry and portray respectability. In fact that’s what well behaved conservative families do. Unless, you’re ill-bred, you don’t let your shit hang out for all to see and laugh at. if you do, don’t get offended when people judge.

We can’t possibly allow statements like “both side are equal jerks” because that enables one side side to dial up the degree of jerkiness and still be judged the same as before. That’s a device authoritarians like Putin use to justify their actions and any good negotiator would never agree.

ZK makes an important point about the mainstream media. it is the center, that’s why it’s called mainstream. Calling the MSM liberal is just a ruse to defend extreme right wing positions.

[scaredyclassic]

my roommate in 88 was selling DuKAKIS-BUSH Silkscreen handmade tshirts with both of them arm in arm. one machine. he was a bit early on that them.

wish i had one of those shirts…

[Anonymous]

Here’s what it takes to actually get a prosecution against a cop:

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/07/25/court-proceedings-delayed-for-ex-san-mateo-cop-accused-of-multiple-rapes/

Investigators said he would pull over young women, tell them they did something wrong and he’d arrest them unless they had sex with him.

Tell me other cops didn’t know this was going on.

Of course the taxpayer-funded police union is assisting his defense.

[spdrun]

The union should defend him — after all, he’s innocent till proven guilty. Everyone should get a chance at a fair trial.

This being said, if he’s guilty, I hope he gets a few decades in San Quentin.

[Anonymous]

He absolutely has a right to a taxpayer-funded defense in the form of the same public defender that anyone else would get.

He should not receive extraordinary taxpayer support. That’s what the union is giving him.

Taxpayers are required by law to fund the unions. That law needs to change.

[njtosd]

[quote=FlyerInHi]There’s a problem when one claims both sides are equally bad without having anything good to say about one’s own side, It’s perfectly fair to not speak of one’s dirty laundry and portray respectability. In fact that’s what well behaved conservative families do. Unless, you’re ill-bred, you don’t let your shit hang out for all to see and laugh at. if you do, don’t get offended when people judge.

We can’t possibly allow statements like “both side are equal jerks” because that enables one side side to dial up the degree of jerkiness and still be judged the same as before. That’s a device authoritarians like Putin use to justify their actions and any good negotiator would never agree.

ZK makes an important point about the mainstream media. it is the center, that’s why it’s called mainstream. Calling the MSM liberal is just a ruse to defend extreme right wing positions.[/quote]

Your first paragraph is too disjointed and odd to answer.

1). I wish I had a side. That would mean there was a candidate who I trusted.
2). Who are “we” (as in “we can’t possibly”)?
3). I never said anything about the media except that it’s full of propaganda from both sides.
4). I think I’m probably somewhat envious of those posters who are sure they know they have the answers. I remember seeing Kurt Vonnegut speak – he said life was like Hamlet – this happens, that happens and in the end you’re not sure whether any of it was good or bad. It’s not satisfying but I’m sorry the two current candidates are two forms of crap. Most people here have found there “own personal Jesus” to quote Depeche Mode. I haven’t.

[moneymaker]

I’m going to go out on a limb and say the next President of the United States will be elected by a minority of Americans.

[FlyerInHi]

Nytosd, I don’t have scaredy’ talent of saying things with few words. Plus typing on smartphone is not very convenient.

I’m trying to say that conservatives like claim that that blacks are rightfully targeted because of the way they act. Conservatives are now so openly disfunctionally trashy that they are hardly recognizable as conservatives. Right there, there’s no equivalence with the democrats.

“We” are intelligent people. For example, in international relations, the Russians and Chinese like to say they are equivalent to the USA. Not at all. Any attempt at moral equivalence should be laughed off and ridiculed.

Compare the platforms The ideas are not even remotely morally equivalent. Examples are gay marriage and abortion which are settled issues. Republicans espouse retrograde positions of returning back in time.

As far as Jesus, religious people are rigid and start with the premise that God exists; and that everyone else must consider that God does exist. Right there, conservatives act entitled to an asymmetric advantage. The center and reasonable position should be “there is no God until he shows up” The extreme position in fact is the conviction in God.

[njtosd]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Nytosd, I don’t have scaredy’ talent of saying things with few words. Plus typing on smartphone is not very convenient.

I’m trying to say that conservatives like claim that that blacks are rightfully targeted because of the way they act. Conservatives are now so openly disfunctionally trashy that they are hardly recognizable as conservatives. Right there, there’s no equivalence with the democrats.

“We” are intelligent people. For example, in international relations, the Russians and Chinese like to say they are equivalent to the USA. Not at all. Any attempt at moral equivalence should be laughed off and ridiculed.

Compare the platforms The ideas are not even remotely morally equivalent. Examples are gay marriage and abortion which are settled issues. Republicans espouse retrograde positions of returning back in time.

As far as Jesus, religious people are rigid and start with the premise that God exists; and that everyone else must consider that God does exist. Right there, conservatives act entitled to an asymmetric advantage. The center and reasonable position should be “there is no God until he shows up” The extreme position in fact is the conviction in God.[/quote]

Again, odd and disjointed.

As far as intelligence goes, you’re just getting back to the “liberals are all things good and conservatives are all things bad.” I’ve known many whip smart conservatives and liberals. There were two guys that I used to work with who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum (but were friends – can you believe it??) and both made impressive arguments for their sides.

Do you know that Depeche Mode was a band from the 1980s? I wasn’t referring to Jesus in the traditional sense of the the word. Christians do not each have a personal Jesus – He’s a shared resource. It sounds like maybe you need to read up a bit.

I’m giving up on this one because you seem to have floated off into a particularly bizarre direction. Enjoy yourself.

PS – Dysfunctionally trashy sound like they aren’t very good at being trashy. Is that what you meant? 😉 And what are these people recognizable as?

[FlyerInHi]

njtosd, I don’t dispute that conservatives and liberals can have good ideas and be friends. That is if we stay within the realm of ideas.

But we have to look at the facts of the ground today. What’s unfolding in the Republican party reflects upon all Republicans. It’s up to them to repudiate their extremes and shut up like Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney have done.

Declaring both sides are equal jerks simply enables one side to reach to further extremes.

[Anonymous]

You’re both wrong.

Any argument based on the notion that everyone fits nicely into thought groups like ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative’ – and that membership in these groups is mutually exclusive – is just lame.

[Author]

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