OT: and we wonder why there is so much anger.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=njtosd][quote=zk][quote=FlyerInHi]
The question we have to ask ourselves is why a large portion of the population feels anger and resentment at this new knowledge of police abuse. Why do they try to minimize and justify it by pointing to what they feel are more pressing problems?

[/quote]

That’s easy. I can sum it up in 4 words: Right-wing noise machine. They’ve been brainwashed into thinking that the view of the world they want to be real (which includes most black people being the bad guys and all cops being the good guys) is reality. And humans get upset when their view of reality is challenged, especially if it’s one they’ve invested a lot of emotional energy in. And they don’t like to be wrong.[/quote]

You realize that your answer can be condensed somewhat: Those other guys (who are totally weak minded and prejudiced) are causing this “minimizing” (although no data has been supplied that suggests that any “minimizing” has happened). In other words, even theoretical issues are “the other guy’s fault”.

When are people going to accept that others can disagree with them politically without being stupid racists (conservatives) or hypocritical narcissists (liberals)? And frankly – I agree that conservatives don’t like to be wrong. Neither do liberals. Do you know anyone, zk, who likes to be wrong? There is equal jerkish behavior on both sides of the political fence – it just bugs you more when you don’t agree with the jerk’s politics.

I don’t like the behavior that a lot of these police officers have been accused of. . But when did a virtual jury of the Internet replace a careful and thorough investigation? Police behaving badly makes great copy for the news networks, but there is a reason we pay people to conduct careful investigations before we decide to prosecute.[/quote]

public opinion moves the law, from the united states supreme ct down to the lowly line prosecutor decision to prosecute.

gay marriage could not have been legal in 1986…but it is in 2016. the constitutions text is the same. pay is similar.

[scaredyclassic]

i dont mind being wrong in matters of opinion..

not in situations involving money, or important exams, or situations where being right matters in an objective way…but just “being wrong” on an opinion is, well, kind of exciting, especially if it is unexpected.

the only really firmly held position i would refuse to give up is that my ability to know is very very limited.

also, a corollary…you can be right, or you can be married but you cant be both.

[zk]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Very interesting ZK. I have a hard time figuring out how that squares ideologically in the minds of those people. Police abuse is government overreach to the extreme. If one cares about the constitution, one should never want the police to hold arbitrary powers over people.[/quote]

Squares? Are you kidding? They don’t square anything in their minds. If you’ve been emotionally manipulated, things like facts and squaring cease to matter.

[zk]

[quote=njtosd]
Do you know anyone, zk, who likes to be wrong? There is equal jerkish behavior on both sides of the political fence – it just bugs you more when you don’t agree with the jerk’s politics.

[/quote]

No, nobody likes to be wrong. That was my point.

And I don’t disagree with their politics as much as you probably think. I have many views that are right of center.

What bugs me is that this massive apparatus, the right-wing noise machine, is set up to manipulate them. If there were a left-wing noise machine that continually and powerfully and pervasively, ubiquitously, even, tried to manipulate those who lean left, that would bug me just as much.

What I would like is for there to be less emotional manipulation going on. People being told how to feel and then feeling that way. Never mind how to think; thinking, unfortunately, doesn’t even enter into it.

[scaredyclassic]

society is a noise machine.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic]i dont mind being wrong in matters of opinion..

not in situations involving money, or important exams, or situations where being right matters in an objective way…but just “being wrong” on an opinion is, well, kind of exciting, especially if it is unexpected.

the only really firmly held position i would refuse to give up is that my ability to know is very very limited.

also, a corollary…you can be right, or you can be married but you cant be both.[/quote]

You are my soul mate, scaredy. And you have that ability to say things beautifully in few words.

I’m not married because I’m always right. Haha.. Even about interior design. I need to marry an architect who can reason with me

[FlyerInHi]

Njtosd, no there is not “equal jerkish behavior on both sides”. There is assymetry and as Paul Krugman said the truth is not equidistant from either side.

Someone right here said what about black on black crime. It’s a way to minimize, deflect, and say let’s deal with the “real” issues first.

i read an article in the Federalist the argues conservative are soft on police abuse because they believe it’s needed to deal with the bad elements. The argument goes police work is hard, officers face dangerous situations, so let’s forgive the lapses. Afterall the police protect us good guys from bad guys.

[zk]

[quote=zk]

What I would like is for there to be less emotional manipulation going on. People being told how to feel and then feeling that way. Never mind how to think; thinking, unfortunately, doesn’t even enter into it.[/quote]

Of course, this emotional manipulation has been going on since humans have been humans (at least). What could be (but isn’t and won’t be) different is that, now, most people have almost unlimited access to the same facts and other information as almost everybody else. We don’t have the same excuse to not understand what’s really happening as the serf in the field being told by his lord what the deal is.

Silly me, when the internet started to get big, I thought it would usher in a new era of enlightenment, all over (or almost all over) the world. How utterly naive that thought was. It’s done the opposite. And the reason it’s done the opposite is that it afforded a greater opportunity to emotionally manipulate people, and human beings are not only easily emotionally manipulated, they want to be told how to feel. They want to be led around by their amygdalas and put into boxes. They like their well-defined little boxes where they “know” what’s what. They don’t want to have to think or analyze or evaluate or use logic or reason or facts or evidence. That’s all too much work or too nebulous or too scary or too lacking in certainty.

That’s very disappointing to me. And I guess it’s why I hate the right-wing noise machine so much. It’s shown me a lot about human nature, and I don’t like what I see.

[scaredyclassic]

1st time in the flotation tank today in miramar. weird.

as i wss getting on the freeway, i was driving a little slow and some guy was going crazy honking and giving me the finger.

angry world. my mind was still all tank calmed.

[zk]

[quote=scaredyclassic]1st time in the flotation tank today in miramar. weird.

as i wss getting on the freeway, i was driving a little slow and some guy was going crazy honking and giving me the finger.

angry world. my mind was still all tank calmed.[/quote]

I’ve always wanted to try that. I wonder how different it is from land-bound meditating.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=zk][quote=scaredyclassic]1st time in the flotation tank today in miramar. weird.

as i wss getting on the freeway, i was driving a little slow and some guy was going crazy honking and giving me the finger.

angry world. my mind was still all tank calmed.[/quote]

I’ve always wanted to try that. I wonder how different it is from land-bound meditating.[/quote]

not sure.

its very very very dark.
youre naked, floating.
its quiet.

[spdrun]

You think you can trust the government to investigate itself impartially? LOL.

There might be jerkish behavior on both sides, but guess what? Cops are paid to be professionals, and put their safety on the line to protect the public. Not shoot first or use physical force first and ask questions later.

The way things are now, if I have kids (G-d willing), they’re likely to be a shade or three darker than me. I’d hate to think they’d be at risk of violence from their own government because of the skin color they’d be born with.

When are people going to accept that others can disagree with them politically without being stupid racists (conservatives) or hypocritical narcissists (liberals)? And frankly – I agree that conservatives don’t like to be wrong. Neither do liberals. Do you know anyone, zk, who likes to be wrong? There is equal jerkish behavior on both sides of the political fence – it just bugs you more when you don’t agree with the jerk’s politics.

I don’t like the behavior that a lot of these police officers have been accused of. . But when did a virtual jury of the Internet replace a careful and thorough investigation? Police behaving badly makes great copy for the news networks, but there is a reason we pay people to conduct careful investigations before we decide to prosecute.

[njtosd]

[quote=zk][quote=njtosd]
Do you know anyone, zk, who likes to be wrong? There is equal jerkish behavior on both sides of the political fence – it just bugs you more when you don’t agree with the jerk’s politics.

[/quote]

No, nobody likes to be wrong. That was my point.

And I don’t disagree with their politics as much as you probably think. I have many views that are right of center.

What bugs me is that this massive apparatus, the right-wing noise machine, is set up to manipulate them. If there were a left-wing noise machine that continually and powerfully and pervasively, ubiquitously, even, tried to manipulate those who lean left, that would bug me just as much.

What I would like is for there to be less emotional manipulation going on. People being told how to feel and then feeling that way. Never mind how to think; thinking, unfortunately, doesn’t even enter into it.[/quote]

I believe that both sides have massive noise machines designed to encourage the “manipulatees” to make political donations. You can’t be a hero if there isn’t a crisis. I have pointed out in other posts that people’s politics have been shown to have a genetic and perhaps biochemical basis. For example: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-genes-of-left-and-right/

And I see the ongoing political debate as something similar to a cat arguing with a rabbit about whether meat is better than grass. The two sides see the world very differently. And I believe the rabbit and the cat both believe the other is stupid for its preferences and that if they could just express things the right way, that stupid rabbit/cat will see the light. Plus it’s fun to feel smug and trade stories with other cats/rabbits about the absolute obliviousness and/or moral depravity of the other group. It’s as old as the hills. Doesn’t anyone see it?

[zk]

[quote=njtosd]

I believe that both sides have massive noise machines designed to encourage the “manipulatees” to make political donations. [/quote]

The vast majority of Americans don’t make political donations at all. So, if such apparatus exist, they’re not working.

The right-wing noise machine creates an echo chamber large and loud enough that one who subscribes to it can get the impression that the whole world agrees with his views. Any such apparatus on the left is dwarfed by that on the right. Unless you’ve been duped into thinking that the mainstream media is liberally biased. That ruse, as I’ve said on this forum before, is one of the most brilliant strokes of propaganda in the history of American propaganda.

[Anonymous]

[quote=zk]That ruse, as I’ve said on this forum before, is one of the most brilliant strokes of propaganda in the history of American propaganda.[/quote]

Absolutely.

Ironically it was information technology that enabled the ignorance. It started with cable television in the 1980s. With effectively unlimited TV channels piped into every home in America, big media could customize channels to particular viewpoints. Viewers only watched the news channels that reported what they wanted to hear. Journalists no longer had to be balanced to reach a broad audience.

And then the internet took it many steps further.

Fox News, Limbaugh and the rest saw this opportunity and capitalized on it, big time.

Brilliant and sinister.

[Author]

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