One for Bearishgirl

[Jazzman]

UCGal, yes, I have dual residency.

[NotCranky]

Bearish girl hibernates in the summer?

[CA renter]

I was wondering where she’s been, as well.

[bearishgurl]

Hi Piggs, saw my name here and finally had a chance to respond. I’ve checked in recently but have been on the road for awhile … all over the great State of Colorado. It was breathtakingly beautiful and I had the time of my life. desmond, you would have been thrilled to tour the several (rocky mtn high) 13K peaks that I did … yes, up close and personal, replete with old mines to explore, hidden turquoise lakes and brushes with bighorn, deer, marmot, chipmunks and tons of colorful wildflowers!

OH, and BTW, folks, my tankish geezer of a vehicle got 29.5 mpg on the road with just two pints of STP added to the tank for the whole trip! It (I? :=0) even got a speeding ticket (98 in an 80 mph zone) in a lovely desolate straightaway on the way home. After demonstrating equipment failure (odometer needle light out so is black on black in the bright sun) to the state trooper, I got my ticket reduced from $247 to $90. But not before a (deserved) lecture, “Lady, it took me three miles to catch up with you. If you’re passing everything in sight like its standing still, you’re going too fast. It’s 102 degrees right now. We have a lot of blowouts around here and your tires aren’t rated for speed. I don’t want to have to scrape you and your overturned vehicle off the median.”

Well folks, I guess I’ll be getting these needle lights fixed because I’m planning on hitting the road again in a few weeks :=0

***

Jazzman, I saw your photos in your OP and am happy for you on your purchase of a country home in France. Your pictures are very pretty but I noticed that your (stone?) house looks as if (behind trees) its garage is only big enough to hold a motorcycle. Although probably a very old property, I was wondering, is there another garage on the premises?

Jazzman, I never tried to “pillory” you for buying a retirement place in HI versus coastal CA. And having never been to Europe myself, I’m not in a position to determine whether what you are purchasing is a “good deal” (or not) since your lack being able to find what you believe to be a “good deal” in CA is why you decided to shop elsewhere. However, I don’t feel you can compare your purchase to a (comparable $488,110 US dollars) property purchase in CA coastal counties which have street lights and sidewalks (in municipalities); a 911 emergency system in place; trash pickup; high-speed internet avail; built-in cabinets; closets and fixtures; storm drains; zoning laws; emissions laws; guardrails on elevated roads; renowned beaches and a proliferation of other public services which may not be available in rural European locales or, if available, may not be to the (generally high) standards of CA cities. And it certainly cannot be compared to the properties’ locations which you toured in your more coveted coastal CA locales (detailed below).

As CAR has previously stated here a few times, a CA urban or suburban homebuyer will pay for a multitude of available high-quality (public and private) SERVICES when they purchase residential RE. You don’t have to leave the country to prove this point. All you have to do is visit states which don’t have these public services or level of services available (but often charge higher property taxes) and ask yourself why residential RE is cheaper there. It’s cheaper because you pay for exactly what you get in this life.

Just to keep this thread apples to apples, $488,110 is NOT an “entry-level” home in most cities of coastal CA counties. It is a “move-up” home or at the very least, a recently heavily-remodeled “entry-level” home. One can certainly purchase a 4 bd/2-3 ba/2-3 gar SFR of 2000+ sf sitting on .5 to 1.5 AC today in most coastal CA counties for +/- $488,110 … and likely closer to the coast than your country home in France is.

Nevertheless, your pics of the surrounding area are beautiful and I’m happy for your purchase if you’re happy with it 🙂

http://piggington.com/future_housing_purchase_trading_up_when_rates_are_higher#comment-216205

[quote=Jazzman][quote=bearishgurl]I have a question for you Jazzman … Was LJ proper where you were looking for a SFR to buy before you got frustrated with the local market there and left SD? And if so, and you had been successful making an acceptable deal there, would it have been the first property you owned in a CA coastal county?[/quote]. . . To your question, we looked at La Jolla, Del Sur, Encinitas, Laguna Beach, Pasadena, Marin County, but decided the best of all places was Santa Barbara. We could afford a home in most of these places, but that wasn’t the issue here. . .[/quote]

http://piggington.com/future_housing_purchase_trading_up_when_rates_are_higher#comment-216314

[quote=Jazzman]I really did my homework, and therein probably lies the problem. The more I became aware of the issues, the more skeptical I became.[/quote]

http://piggington.com/future_housing_purchase_trading_up_when_rates_are_higher#comment-216410

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=Jazzman]We looked, and looked in Santa Barbara for two years. The situation actually got worse. In 2010, there may have been one or two opportunities, since local housing was depressed, but there were very visible efforts to stop price declines at all costs. It was a sacrosanct, protected haven. Ojai was an option and we saw many homes there, but it was ludicrous what sellers wanted in such a remote little place.

We did want to live in CA, but the poor choice of homes and asking prices was such a deterrent. If you are a cash buyer, it’s your money and you are much more reluctant to part with it than when using someone else’s. I once said to a broker who scorned us for our tactics; “Have to ever paid $x cash for anything?” You could see the penny drop…[/quote]
Jazzman, from your post above, it almost sounds as if you may have “overthought” several purchases and thus talked yourself out of competing for them. And most of the areas you were shopping in no doubt had a preponderance of all-cash buyers like yourself…[/quote]

http://piggington.com/future_housing_purchase_trading_up_when_rates_are_higher#comment-216468

[quote=Jazzman]First, apologies to OP for the hijack, and just to reiterate your instincts are right on target.

BG, please don’t take it personally, I do like CA and love the people. I just think homes are over-priced, as do many who live there. My home town London is a LOT worse.

Yes, you are right. We talked ourselves out of it, because we knew it was a losing battle some time ago. And you are right in that it is horses for courses. Maui is small, remote, and island fever sets in, which is why we will buy our main home near Paris. We’re in Honolulu (30 mins away) at the moment celebrating my birthday.[/quote]

We’ve been through all of this before, Jazzman. In a nutshell, your previous posts indicate that you were only willing to shop in largely premium coastal enclaves of CA, but not in France. It appears that in all the months you spent trying to find a suitable retirement home for yourselves, what you really wanted was not a CA coastal home at all, but a beach condo in HI and a secluded European country home. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, but as you are aware, the three locales are all completely different animals.

I stand by my previous assertion that the CA coastal enclaves which you were shopping in are not overvalued. Not even now. The vast majority of currently listed properties situated in them are listed under build-cost for their current size when taking into account the prior purchase of the lot they sit on and the fact that those lots can’t be recreated today. That’s the main point I was trying to covey in our previous discussions. It wasn’t to “pillory” you.

[FlyerInHi]

Bearish, you should visit the French countryside. It’s interesting and fun.

The US country such as Colorado and Wyoming is beautiful nature wise but boring and soulless. Not some place you want to retire and be by your lonesome self.

I just watched an episode of Rick
Steve’s where he traveled down the canal in burgundy with his American friend’s family who owns a vacation home there.

If a pastoral setting were a calling for me, and my budget (or inclination for maintenance and doing up) doesn’t support a house, I’d settle for an apartment (or townhouse) in a French village.

Go to France. As an American you’ll make plenty of friends and have the time of your life. You can live cheaper than at lake Tahoe. 911 system and paved side walks nobody walks on are over-rated.

Rent for a month or 2 on a vacation. You might even fall in love with a Frenchman who appreciates your independent, can do American personality. Then you’ll have residency and health care in 2 counties.

Oh, and if you like road trip, France is great. You can drive to Spain, italy, switzerland, germany. You’re never far from somewhere interesting. Compare to driving from San Diego to Colorado and back.

[flyer]

IMHO, housing is, in many ways, about lifestyle preferences. As I’ve mentioned in my previous posts, we absolutely love traveling and living elsewhere, but, since we were fortunate enough to buy properties in San Diego at, (by today’s standards) such reasonable prices, especially in RSF, this will always be our home base.

Also, we want to stay near our grown children (ours all live and work in CA). We also love our extraordinary medical care and all of the other amenities we enjoy here. As you get into your 50’s, as we are, you begin to realize how important these things are.

In Jazzman’s case, especially since he has dual citizenship, his plan seems perfectly suited to his desired lifestyle, and I wish him the very best, and welcome back BG–sounds like you had a great trip!

[Jazzman]

LOL! Great to get some feedback BG! Nice to see you are still on form and sounds like you had a great trip. We’ve to’d and fro’d over this so many times, but I just wanted to hang some tangible meat on the core issue, which is that (comparative) value can still be had out there. All (most) Piggs know what caused the bubble and what prevented a full correction in prices. Those causes and preventions are not innate to and binding on all RE markets, despite the contagion that spread well beyond bubble prone markets.

I am a little surprised by one or two of your comments. Having spent several years searching for a home in CA, it could hardly give rise to the notion I never intended to buy here. Also, if you have never been to Europe that wouldn’t qualify you to comment on local services, which I can promise you are at least as are good as anywhere in the developed world. These kinds of comparisons are not very meaningful IMO.

The main thing is I feel very content that overall I’ve come out on top. That of course is subjective, but then isn’t that what it boils down to? But the maths is fun too. I get two beautiful homes in two very sort after places, for the price of one in a place that has not convinced me is twice as good. Put that in ya’ pipe and smoke it!

[Jazzman]

FlyerInHi, you have it down.

I’ll add that Europe is comprised of a vast network of farm steads, hamlets, villages, towns and cities, all tightly interlinked by road, rail, airports and even water networks. The capital cities are huge, but the vast majority of people don’t live there. Towns, and even villages often attract wealthy people, artists, and can be very cosmopolitan. There are cultural events, restaurants, movies, and all manner of modern conveniences. Sarlat has probably more restaurants per square mile than Paris and is so (literally) breathtakingly beautiful, with its medieval houses, market square and little streets you will never, ever forget it. The houses are built with the local yellow sandstone and glow in the sunshine. It will make you smile. The countryside is dotted with chateaux atop hills that punctuate the landscape like a fairytale. Troglodyte dwellings litter the valleys, demonstrating the resourcefulness of our earliest ancestors. And then there is the French way of life, the mentor to all bon viveurs. A relaxed, convivial, moderate but resplendent existence that owes so much to centuries of refinement and enjoyment of the good things in life.

You miss out on travel, you miss out on life. Seeing is believing.

[flyer]

Jazzman, I think you truly accomplished all of your goals with the wonderful homes you’ve selected. Many of us who purchased our homes in CA years ago have that same feeling of accomplishment, having acquired what we consider to be “trophy/dream homes,” for, what, today, would be what many are paying for a condo, 20+ miles from the beach.

As you said, what each person requires for “happiness,” is definitely subjective, and that is what makes all of us such interesting individuals:)!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Jazzman]LOL! Great to get some feedback BG! Nice to see you are still on form and sounds like you had a great trip. We’ve to’d and fro’d over this so many times, but I just wanted to hang some tangible meat on the core issue, which is that (comparative) value can still be had out there. All (most) Piggs know what caused the bubble and what prevented a full correction in prices. Those causes and preventions are not innate to and binding on all RE markets, despite the contagion that spread well beyond bubble prone markets.

I am a little surprised by one or two of your comments. Having spent several years searching for a home in CA, it could hardly give rise to the notion I never intended to buy here. Also, if you have never been to Europe that wouldn’t qualify you to comment on local services, which I can promise you are at least as are good as anywhere in the developed world. These kinds of comparisons are not very meaningful IMO.

The main thing is I feel very content that overall I’ve come out on top. That of course is subjective, but then isn’t that what it boils down to? But the maths is fun too. I get two beautiful homes in two very sort after places, for the price of one in a place that has not convinced me is twice as good. Put that in ya’ pipe and smoke it![/quote]

Jazzman, we know you initially wanted to buy your retirement home in CA very much. I never meant to imply you didn’t want to buy here.

[quote=jazzman][quote=bearishgurl]Jazzman, the coming “retirement” you have planned for yourselves sounds absolutely extraordinary![/quote]If you consider my wife waited 15 years to get her green card to be with her family in her old age, you’ll realize the decision to leave was not taken lightly. We felt that strongly about it. Having seen dozens of homes, the reaction was nearly always YMBJ if you think we’re going to pay that. Are we better off than most? Yes, so we shouldn’t whine, but our “retirement plan” had to offset the heartache and disappointment my wife felt. It’s nothing personal against California. My home town of London is a lost cause, with tens of thousands of potential buyers probably permanently priced out, and if you dig around enough you’ll find the deep seated frustration that still consumes so many. It makes you wish there was something you could do to help. But then I suppose, many parts of the world would scoff at our pleading poverty.[/quote]

http://piggington.com/8_years_later_it_happened_we_bought_a_home#comment-206432

What I was stating is that you didn’t want to do what it takes to obtain a retirement property of your choice in 2010-12 … when you were actively shopping and placing offers in CA. The prices in your selected “coveted” areas weren’t palatable to you at the time … even is a “down-but-slowly-rising” market. Of course, they are higher now. Different strokes.

In your selected (CA) shopping areas, your problem was not insufficient motivation or an inability to buy. It was all about your level of desire to buy. You didn’t have the “fire” to perform as a buyer and there’s nothing wrong with that … or you. Because this “fire” or “passion” didn’t exist (and if it once did, you probably had stiff competition on a few of your offers), you later opted to buy elsewhere, rather than shop in areas of CA outside of your choice premium areas … and that’s okay, too. After you made the decision to retire elsewhere, you decided you wanted TWO retirement homes for the same amount of money you were willing to spend in CA, so didn’t shop in the premium areas in those locales. And it appears that strategy worked out okay for you.

In other words, while shopping CA, you had much higher standards for a retirement home than you did in HI or France.

From an agent/broker’s point of view, insight into a buyer or seller’s actual true motivations and desires is paramount. More often than not, what a buyer WILL actually buy or what a seller WILL actually sell for or the terms they WILL actually accept (when push comes to shove), is a completely different animal than any initial or subsequent representations they make to their broker. This knowledge is what prevents brokers and agents from spinning their wheels into oblivion, accomplishing nothing and subsequently wasting dozens (hundreds?) of hours of their time, money and gas on transactions which will never consummate.

If you feel you “came out on top,” far be it for me to judge. Yes, you DO get two beautiful homes but you have to pay dearly to travel by air between them as you have no other truly viable alternatives. In my mind, this raises another major reoccurring expense two or more times per year for at least two people that needs to be accounted for in your retirement budget. If this additional expense doesn’t bother you, it doesn’t bother me 🙂

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Bearish, you should visit the French countryside. It’s interesting and fun.

The US country such as Colorado and Wyoming is beautiful nature wise but boring and soulless. Not some place you want to retire and be by your lonesome self. . . [/quote]

LOL, FlyerinHI, my passport has long been expired! Perhaps someday I will visit Europe but it is not on my radar at this moment.

I disagree with you about CO and WY being “boring and soulless.” Of course, the plains can be hot and boring but many parts of the rockies are extraordinarily beautiful, even spectacular! The folks who reside there, for the most part, are very welcoming and ever-vigilant in preserving their environments. There are TONS of things to do there, including:

-world-class skiing and snowboarding (downhill, off-piste, cross-country)

-whitewater-rafting and tubing

-hot-air ballooning

-hang-glidering and skydiving

-running and hiking (lots of technical hiking, incl rappelling)

-soaking in natural hot springs

-train rides, ex: http://www.durangotrain.com/

-sightseeing: gorges, high suspension bridges, geysers, cog train, Garden of the Gods, old mines, caves, etc

-off-roading (tons of trails open part of the year and maintained – along with UT, it is the best in the country)

-photography (often requires off-roading or hiking)

-indoor Olympic swimming pools, indoor/outdoor tennis and basketball, ice skating

-fall foilage tours (best in the country) and wildflower tours (lots of variety, incl tundra)

-ice-climbing festival

-world-class camping

-concerts and plays

-touring historic mining towns with well-preserved Victorian architecture

You might be shocked to notice that the fittest people in the world live up there or visit frequently! And many of them are NOT young!

Even in populated towns, such as Aspen, Vail and Jackson Hole, its ecosystem including its native plants and animals has been well-preserved. Restaurants take care to use as little disposable material as possible and from what I could tell, campers, hikers and offroaders NEVER left trash.

You are correct that the rockies are “God’s country.” The people who live there and visit there are at the mercy of the mtns on any given day. Thunderstorms typically roll over in the late afternoon and snow could turn into a blizzard in a few short minutes. The wind can turn your face into leather in 45 mins and there is no ozone layer so sunburns are epidemic. About 5-6 months per year, the temperature could easily vary more than 60 degrees on any given day. One has to dress in layers and should carry extra clothing, battery backup, drinking water and supplies in their vehicle at all times. Living up there by yourself year-round in a single-family home would definitely be a challenge for anyone, especially in a home on the many unpaved and gravel county roads (where wildlife freely roam your unfenced property).

IMHO, this is the absolute best item of clothing to wear there in the warmer months:

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Hiking-Pants-Womens-Reviews/The-North-Face-Paramount-Peak-Convertible-Pant-Womens

I love it up there but would not retire there alone as I don’t like apts/condos. I want to retire in a single family home.

However appealing, towns and areas in the rockies which are more than 30 miles from a hospital are not wise to retire in for those who have chronic health conditions as roads can be closed intermittently and then you will be at the mercy of the skills of a volunteer search and rescue team or local physician if one exists and is reachable when you need one.

Several towns in the rockies have hyperbaric chambers available to treat severe altitude sickness (which has happened to me in the past and is no fun). Do NOT go off road in the rockies until you have resided in an altitude of at least 7500 feet for 24 hrs. Do NOT go up the cog train until you have resided in an altitude of at least 5000 feet for 24 hrs. Do not have more than two drinks the night before you are set to go off-roading, especially if your home is at or near sea-level.

Colorado, and to a lesser extent, Utah, Wyoming and New Mexico, are world-class playgrounds and national treasures.

[Jazzman]

BG, if you haven’t seen the world, you really should make it a priority. It will open your horizons. Too much introspection blinds thinking with detail. It will change your outlook on things, and give you new perspectives, which you can’t gain by sitting at home in front of the telly watching wild life programs or CNN. Go with an open mind and be prepared to accept things at face value, rather than judging them with your own value system. Then take what you like and discard what you don’t.

Pics of the Dordogne

[img_assist|nid=17492|title=Gardens|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=67]
[img_assist|nid=17487|title=Les Cabanes du Brueil|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=75]
[img_assist|nid=17490|title=Monpazier|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=67]
[img_assist|nid=17489|title=Dordogne River|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=68]
[img_assist|nid=17491|title=Chateau|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=63]

[sdsubie]

Jazzman,

Just caught up with this thread. The family and I just spent 3 weeks driving through France while attending a friends wedding. I have to say that area you purchased in is some of the most beautiful village and country life I’ve seen. I’ve lived abroad, and travelled most of the world, but the combination of food (oh the PASTRY!), scenery, and people in this part of France is hard to beat. Congrats to you.

subie

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

I think it’s pointless to argue whether a place in Hawaii plus France better, worse, or equivalent to a place in Santa Barbara. Or whether the view in the western US is soulless. These can’t be proven. There’s no data that can be brought that can decide.

But, it is interesting to compare the trade-offs one can make between say a SFR in coastal So Cal versus 1,2, or even 3 properties scattered about various places. You could even consider a more rural SO Cal spot… say a place in SLO plus the place in France or Hawaii…

Anyway, congrats Jazzman on finding what you want for your place(s) to live.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FormerSanDiegan] . . . it is interesting to compare the trade-offs one can make between say a SFR in coastal So Cal versus 1,2, or even 3 properties scattered about various places. You could even consider a more rural SO Cal spot… say a place in SLO plus the place in France or Hawaii …[/quote]

FSD, I think I suggested Ojai to Jazzman as an alternative to pricey SB in the first thread I pulled up. I don’t recall but either he didn’t find anything he liked there or didn’t want to compromise from SB. Again, nothing wrong with his choice not to.

I thought the “trade-off” subject was interesting as well. In coastal CA (especially the coveted locales of Jazzman’s preference), a RE buyer is paying for past, present and future govm’t regulation in addition to the availability of multiple local public services. Hence, the relatively high cost for what a buyer can get. Even if a “shack” (by Jazzman’s standards) rests on a coastal or near-coastal lot in these areas, you can’t take away its location. It is what it is.

Without that regulation and level of available services, we have the TX panhandle, eastern OK, southern MO, northern LA, central and south FL or the WY plains, among many other US locales to choose from for your RE shopping pleasure :=D

You get what you pay for in this life. If you don’t want to live with regulation and think you don’t need too many services, try shopping in some of the above locales and see what is on offer and for how much. While shopping, don’t become too impressed with online listing photos. GO THERE AND SEE ALL OF IT … THE WHOLE ENVIRONMENT … IN PERSON! And don’t forget to add in the cost of running utilities for 12 months per year 🙂

[Author]

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