It’s a bad day for human beings

[Coronita]

[quote=outtamojo]Wow, so Gavin STILL offers the best overall situation for you otherwise you would have left already.[/quote]

I suspect that as annoying as some of these CA tax increases are, they really don’t impact an individual unless you happen to be an individual working for minimum wage.

People who work at minimum wage or near it would feel every pinch of of a CA gas tax increase, etc,etc…And yes, it totally would make more sense for these people to move out of state.

However, I would say that a lot of professionals still stay in CA, because on a household level, financially they would still net more money working in CA than they would in those lower cost states that also would pay a lot lower.

And also, for a lot of the opportunities in the “lower cost state”, you end up living in an area that isn’t exactly “low cost”… For example, lots of techies going to Dallas, but Dallas isn’t exactly cheap in the areas you want to live in…Example North Dallas. It might not be as expensive as it is in CA, but still not a walk in the park. And there, property taxes is not cheap either.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=zk][quote=gromit][quote=zk]I think we’re approaching the screeching monkey phase.

And still most of the people who voted for trump don’t get it.

Imbeciles.[/quote]

After the news about Mattis’s resignation came out yesterday, I checked foxnews online just to see what they were saying about it. It wasn’t even a top story – I had to search to find it on their front page. And of course all it said was that Mattis was going to resign (as though it was an ordinary transition in due course), and the article quoted TRUMP’S TWEETS, not Mattis’s resignation letter!!!!

No wonder MAGA-folk are such unrelenting Trump supporters, they aren’t even getting the news. I guess I knew this on some level, but I never look at foxnews, so this was a depressing/ alarming realization – the extent to which they’re being kept ignorant.[/quote]

I looked at fox, and of course I saw the exact same thing. I would have been shocked if I had seen anything else.

As I’ve been saying for years, right-wing media are destroying our country in almost exactly the manner you describe. Where I would differ is that I think it’s worse than them being kept ignorant; they’re being disinformed. They’re constantly being fed disinformation by fox and infowars and the rest of the right-wing propaganda machine. This disinformation includes false information about liberals and their positions and their ideas and their priorities. It includes false information about conservatives and their priorities and their policies and the effects of their policies.

They’ve created an alternate universe where trump is a stable genius, democrats want as many undocumented immigrants in the country as possible, tax cuts for the rich will benefit the poor, republican men are manly and strong while liberals are all pansies, and a thousand other “alternative facts” are “true.”

They fall for it all. Goebbels would be very impressed.[/quote]

Fox does it for the profit motive. Isn’t individual profit seeking good for the aggregate?

And the internet was supposed to bring democracy to the world.

If I were Vladimir Putin, I’d be lickin’ my lamb chops cooking up more chaos creation. Did you know that supposed google search bias for the Democrats started in Russian news? Now it’s made it to US Congress.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic]When your personal lawyer is going to prison and snitching u out it’s a bad sign.

My moms friend had a roofing co that went bankrupt when trump stiffed them on a big job.

Personally I am appalled by prison rape jokes. But For trump and his family….[/quote]

I don’t think Trump is going to prison no matter his crimes. The establishment will want a fresh start for national reconciliation and to preserve the American brand.

What riles me up is that when the deplorables behaved entitled we “should listen to them…. they have valid grievances”. Oh really? we should treat them like Blacks were treated.

[zk]

[quote=NeetaT]Oh no! Here I go again. I’m watching Fox News. Those guys are real deplorables.

They believe in:

1.) Low taxes
2.) Limited government
3.) Secure borders
4.) Respect for law enforcement
5.) They are anti affirmative action.
6.) They don’t believe in getting rid of plastic straws.
7.) They don’t believe in making people pay for plastic grocery bags.
8.) They believe in personal responsibility.
9.) They don’t believe in putting triangle signs on bathroom doors.
10.) They believe that certain criminals should be shot on sight.

OH NO!!!!![/quote]

Well, first of all, Neeta, that’s a straw man argument. Nobody’s calling trump supporters deplorables for the above reasons. We’re calling you deplorable because you support a president whose example, whose ideas and comments and actions are deplorable.

In any case, thanks for making my point for me by illustrating precisely what I’ve been saying all along:

You’re an imbecile for worrying about what fox manipulates you into worrying about (your list) when 1) a lot of it is nonsense or trivial (especially compared to the damage trump is causing) 2)what is important on that list assumes that progressives hold the opposite views (which, with the possible exception of limited government – and then only relatively – they don’t) and 3)most importantly, you’ve been distracted and manipulated and disinformed into ignoring (or minimizing or not knowing about) the massive damage that a completely unfit leader is doing to our country.

(fox news): Mattis resigned. We’ll give you trump’s take on this and only trump’s take. Nothing to see here. LOOK OVER THERE! THEY’RE MAKING YOU PAY 10 CENTS FOR A GROCERY BAG!!

Good god, what a chump.

[svelte]

[quote=NeetaT]Oh no! Here I go again. I’m watching Fox News. Those guys are real deplorables.

They believe in:

1.) Low taxes
2.) Limited government
3.) Secure borders
4.) Respect for law enforcement
5.) They are anti affirmative action.
6.) They don’t believe in getting rid of plastic straws.
7.) They don’t believe in making people pay for plastic grocery bags.
8.) They believe in personal responsibility.
9.) They don’t believe in putting triangle signs on bathroom doors.
10.) They believe that certain criminals should be shot on sight.

OH NO!!!!![/quote]

Interesting that you should pick those particular points.

If the Fox News stance on those issues is what is really important to you, then there is a huge swath of the southeastern United States that agrees with you on most if not all of those points where you might be a wee bit happier.

I should emphasize the word “might”.

[Coronita]

I’ll take a slightly different approach…. NeetaT, I’m not going to berate you for your viewpoints.

I would tend to be more right leaning moderate myself.

I only encourage you to look into what you are saying and ask yourself how awful or bad some of these things really are.

[quote=NeetaT]Oh no! Here I go again. I’m watching Fox News. Those guys are real deplorables.

They believe in:

1.) Low taxes
2.) Limited government
3.) Secure borders
4.) Respect for law enforcement
5.) They are anti affirmative action.
6.) They don’t believe in getting rid of plastic straws.
7.) They don’t believe in making people pay for plastic grocery bags.
8.) They believe in personal responsibility.
9.) They don’t believe in putting triangle signs on bathroom doors.
10.) They believe that certain criminals should be shot on sight.

OH NO!!!!![/quote]

1. Low Taxes:
Neither party these days is really for reducing taxes for the working person. The Republicans are no different than the Democrats, they are just shifting the tax burden someone else. SALT tax cap is a tax on every upper income earner in high state tax/high property tax areas. The reason I particularly like this sort of tax, isn’t because I really like more taxes. But this is the first tax I think everyone from both side of the party can feel the pain equally… So as a high net income person, you should be equally pissed about this as every else. So, contrary to your belief, the Republicans didn’t do jack didly to lower your taxes this time. They totally screwed you. probably more so than obama/democrats did (because while tax rates did go up, chances are your net worth was also doing well during that time)

2. Limited government:

Again. That’s not what this administration is about. GOP was about “free markets” and anti-tariffs. Trump’s tariff and protectionist strategy isn’t really a Republican playbook. It historically has come from left labor groups that want to justify keeping jobs here when cheaper alternatives exist elsewhere.

I think it’s a falsehood to believe that either part really believes in having a smaller government. Both parties want government to be more controlling these days, it’s a matter of what to control.

That said, I don’t think what the government is now doing (investigating Huawei, pushing back on China and trade secret threat, and curbing forced technology transfer to do business in China) is a bad thing. It was probably long overdue, many folks in the tech industry have been saying this for a long time.

3. Secure borders

Why do you think our borders aren’t secure? And do you really believe building a wall will make it secure? I mean seriously. I’m asssuming you are an intelligent professional, not some high school dropout without any critical thinking skills. If our borders wasn’t so secure, why haven’t we had more terrorist attacks? Also, food for thought. Why have there more more violent crimes commited domestically by US citizens with guns over the past few years versus a muslim terrorist in the U.S., if our border security was so lousy. Clearly, if Obama and Democrats really had an “open border”, clearly we would have a lot more Al-Queda attacks on US soil then random US citizens shooting people in schools, movie theaters, and work places, right? Why hasn’t that happen over the past 10 years?????? Does it make sense if our borders really aren’t secure?

4. Respect law enforcement:
Since when do people not respect law enforcement

5. Anti-affirmative action. Ok, I’m with you on this one.

6. Plastic straws: Have you researched why plastic straws are being eliminated? It’s a huge problem with wildlife, because often times they get ingested by animals and it kills them. Is this really that much of a burden to not use a plastic straw? Do you care about wildlife, animals,etc? I mean, you don’t even need to be an animal lover (I certainly am not). But doesn’t it even bother you that these plastic straws can harm animals? Or do you really not care?

7. What is the difficulty in carrying reusable bags? Do you really need to have free bags all the time? If each of us just reduces the number of plastic bags we don’t throw into the landfill, that doesn’t disintegrate for 7-10 years, is this really such a bad thing?

8. Ok, I’m with you on this one. But frankly, I’m sorry, most americans that even preach personal responsibility don’t actually do it themselves. Here’s what I don’t get.
Why are some people so against Obamacare but have no issue collecting Social Security? Aren’t they really both the same type of government run programs. If we eliminate obamacare, shouldn’t we do the same thing for social security? Me personally, I would accept anyone’s reasoning for getting rid of obamacare if they also felt the same consistent way about social security. Those,however, that don’t I think the real reason why they want to get rid of obamacare is because they don’t like Obama, regardless of how bad or good the program would be.

9. How does this affect you personally? Really…It’s a serious question

10. Sure, but it’s interesting who some of these conservatives identify “criminals” are. If you’re white/male, chances are you’re less of a criminal.

[zk]

[quote=flu]I’ll take a slightly different approach…. [/quote]

Great post, flu.

[FlyerInHi]

If Republicans have superior values, then their families should generally be more upright and less dysfunctional. They should generally be more educated, financially more prosperous, live in more prosperous areas of the country. But demographic data show otherwise, hence the hypocrisy.

Republicans are about blaming others and resisting change/progress under the guise of values. It’s a “culture war” as Billy Graham put it. Of course, not all Republicans, but the populist Republicans without whom the right would never win elections.

Drinking with straws is not traditional values. It’s actually low-class fast food culture.
Michelle Bachman got the Fox crowds all riled up about LED lights; and Rush Limbaugh got them to stock up on incandescent. Hope they’re still using them and playing the electric bill.

And about self reliance, the Red States benefit from huge Federal transfer payments, much more than their proportional GDP contributions, wealth that is generated by states like California.

[Coronita]

Brian,

It’s people like you that caused the rise of the crazy right. If you haven’t accepted that you are a major part of what is wrong with America with your fake hypocritical air of Superiority, hiding under the guise of being a progressive liberal, then this sort of crazy alt right will continue. You might get a few victories here and there. But any sort of victory will be short lived and violently swing back and forth between two extremes. People hate your alt left type as much as people hate the fringe alt-right.

And let this be a lesson to most of the rest of you who are moderate leaning left or right leaning….

If you moderste left leaning people expect moderate right people to reject the crazy alt right that has become pervasive in America , you need to do your part and reject the crazy alt left thinking and hypocrisy fridges too.

Neither extremes is helping this country and both extremes are increasingly harming the country in the same way. Stereotypes of both always orginate from the fringes of both parties, and until the moderates of both parties can even begin to work together, both kinds of moderates need to start to acknowledge that is the first priority before anything else can be done.

[FlyerInHi]

Errr, no flu.

Liberals have coddled the deplorables long enough.
My own experience with friends, friends of friends and acquaintances is that Republicans like to rant, but If if you throw the shit back at them, they get all pissed off.

If I recall, ZK posted about his golf buddy who watches Fox News. Zk is too nice, but I’m sure that if he were to behave symmetrically, the friend would no longer be friend. Obvious tilted relationship. I challenge anyone to test my observations.

I mean, is there a liberal equivalent of Trump and would that equivalent get away with so much?

If the “somewheres” were smart and self-reliant as they claim, they would get off their asses and become “anywheres”. They wouldn’t be offended at the slightest when we “tell it like it is”. They would take steps to prosper and not be “forgotten”. After all, they claim to be the hardest workers, full of initiative. I said they put up up or STFU.

I disagree with the book author that liberals are clueless. If your employee claims to be smart and know it all, but produces shit work, would you provide training and support or would you fire his ass?

Explaining Trump, Brexit and Other Expressions of Nationalism

He draws, for example, on the typology set out by the British writer David Goodhart, who divides voters into two categories: Anywheres and Somewheres. The latter tend to live in once-homogeneous towns rather than diverse cities, valuing tradition and rootedness, while the former are footloose, prizing the novel over the long-established and constructing their identity from their individual professional or educational achievements rather than from the collective affiliations into which they were born. In this view, it is the Somewheres, often left behind economically and alienated by the rush to diversity, who have driven the nationalist revival, backing Trump, Brexit and a host of xenophobic politicians across Europe, while Anywheres remain stubbornly clueless about the pain and cultural dislocation their fellow citizens have endured.

The reason I prefer the caravan of migrants over the deplorables is because the migrants are good, kind people. I have been to Mexico and I’m among many Americans who are raising funds for housing and lawyers to assist the asylum seekers.

The deplorables claim to be so good at market economics and individual boostrapping. Well, let them prove themselves.

[zk]

[quote=FlyerInHi]

If I recall, ZK posted about his golf buddy who watches Fox News. Zk is too nice, but I’m sure that if he were to behave symmetrically, the friend would no longer be friend. Obvious tilted relationship. I challenge anyone to test my observations.

[/quote]

Your “observations” are made up, you idiot. Go back and read the posts:

https://www.piggington.com/rightwing_media_destroying_our_country?page=10

You assumed something. I told you back then I had already tested your assumption and proven it wrong. And here you are, a year later, challenging anyone to test your already-proven-wrong “observation.”

Brian, the fact that you are able to ignore the truth probably has something to do with what flu is talking about. You remember and believe what you want to, truth be damned.

I get mistaken for an extreme liberal sometimes, even though I’m a left-leaning moderate. The reason I get mistaken for an extreme is my white-hot, passionate loathing for donald trump and for right-wing propaganda. The reason I hate those things so much is that I absolutely despise when the truth is ignored, when people are manipulated, when people make decisions based on lies.

I would hate left-wing propaganda just as much as right-wing propaganda, but there’s so little of it, and it’s so ineffective, it’s not really hurting our country that much. But it would be hurting the country if it was as powerful and influential as right-wing propaganda.

My point, brian, is that if you’re not willing to stick with the truth, if you have to make shit up in order to make your points and back your positions, then you’re every single bit as bad as any trump supporter.

[Coronita]

[quote=zk][quote=FlyerInHi]

If I recall, ZK posted about his golf buddy who watches Fox News. Zk is too nice, but I’m sure that if he were to behave symmetrically, the friend would no longer be friend. Obvious tilted relationship. I challenge anyone to test my observations.

[/quote]

Your “observations” are made up, you idiot. Go back and read the posts:

https://www.piggington.com/rightwing_media_destroying_our_country?page=10

You assumed something. I told you back then I had already tested your assumption and proven it wrong. And here you are, a year later, challenging anyone to test your already-proven-wrong “observation.”

Brian, the fact that you are able to ignore the truth probably has something to do with what flu is talking about. You remember and believe what you want to, truth be damned.

I get mistaken for an extreme liberal sometimes, even though I’m a left-leaning moderate. The reason I get mistaken for an extreme is my white-hot, passionate loathing for donald trump and for right-wing propaganda. The reason I hate those things so much is that I absolutely despise when the truth is ignored, when people are manipulated, when people make decisions based on lies.

I would hate left-wing propaganda just as much as right-wing propaganda, but there’s so little of it, and it’s so ineffective, it’s not really hurting our country that much. But it would be hurting the country if it was as powerful and influential as right-wing propaganda.

My point, brian, is that if you’re not willing to stick with the truth, if you have to make shit up in order to make your points and back your positions, then you’re every single bit as bad as any trump supporter.[/quote]

thank you … exactly. and it doesn’t help Brian you intentionally come her and dig up old threads just to stir political shit up. I know you are having a hard time to find things to do post retirement, but if politics matter so much to you, go camp out on Breitbart or Faux News and troll people there. At least it would be entertaining.

No people, like you don’t piss me off. Just pointing out people like you are the reasons why this country have problems. I pity the weak people in this country that let people like you get them pissed off and push them completely over the edge to the opposite side.

While I might not agree with most ZK posts, if I had to work with him to reach a compromise it would be fairly simple I think. Fringy flaky people at the extremes will never be able to contribute to make this country better, because they are too busy trying to prove they are right and others are wrong. and it would be a complete waste of time to even try to engage in any meaningful dialog.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=zk]

Your “observations” are made up, you idiot. Go back and read the posts:

https://www.piggington.com/rightwing_media_destroying_our_country?page=10

You assumed something. I told you back then I had already tested your assumption and proven it wrong. And here you are, a year later, challenging anyone to test your already-proven-wrong “observation.”

Brian, the fact that you are able to ignore the truth probably has something to do with what flu is talking about. You remember and believe what you want to, truth be damned.

I get mistaken for an extreme liberal sometimes, even though I’m a left-leaning moderate. The reason I get mistaken for an extreme is my white-hot, passionate loathing for donald trump and for right-wing propaganda. The reason I hate those things so much is that I absolutely despise when the truth is ignored, when people are manipulated, when people make decisions based on lies.

I would hate left-wing propaganda just as much as right-wing propaganda, but there’s so little of it, and it’s so ineffective, it’s not really hurting our country that much. But it would be hurting the country if it was as powerful and influential as right-wing propaganda.

[/quote]

I re-read as you suggested and i found nothing.

You did agree that there is asymmetry in left vs right media. And you said, we should try to lift up everyone for a better country. So very kind of you!

I say we ignore the deplorables or throw them to the free market wolves because that’s exactly what they say they want. Give them exactly what they ask for. They can’t have a problem with that, can they?

Flu says I’m extreme left… really? he doesn’t know what left means. Republicans like to excuse themselves by saying that Trump is extreme right and Hillary is extreme left. That’s objectively false and anyone saying that would fail a political science class.

On the point about how to deal with Fox News lovers on a personal level, don’t try to educate them with facts or even cajole them. Symmetically give them back some of their own medicine. 50% will do. I challenge people do to so with their own friends and relatives and observe.

We don’t need a better country anymore, we are all citizens of that world. We need a better world! The anywheres can prosper in a globalized world. The somewheres will get crushed if they don’t change. The ball is in their court.

[quote=zk]
My point, brian, is that if you’re not willing to stick with the truth, if you have to make shit up in order to make your points and back your positions, then you’re every single bit as bad as any trump supporter.[/quote]

On the whole, philosophically speaking, maybe I’m as bad as Trump supporters. Ok. I own it. But technically, I’m not symmetrically as bad. I am much better. There’s a difference.

Trump supporters actively seek to put down people (immigrants, dreamers, etc) through policies so they can feel better. I’m only putting down Trump supporters with contempt. And I say that if they want Republican policies, let that live by them. If they were so sure of themvelves, them could take the high road, ignore the “disrespect” and not vote for Trump out of spite.

I am human and I am entitled to human emotions… as deplorables would agree because they are pissed off not on substance but on “feeling” condescended to.

If you were working with a colleague who is certain his way is the best, would you try to “educate” him so the team can succeed or would you let him fail and eat crow. You’re not undermining him…. you just let him be.

[FlyerInHi]

Flu, you’re a competitive guy who believes in hard work.
Why would you try to understand a voter in West Virginia who is not that productive, whose skills are obsolete and who votes for Trump?
Would you not demand that he gets off his ass and stop bitchin’. Get some education, move to California.

[scaredyclassic]

MUELLER IS LAW ENFORCEMENT.
DOESNT SEEM TO GET ANY RESPECT FROM THE RIGHT.

[Author]

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