Interesting commentary on the Vegas economy (paging FlyerInHI)

[CDMA ENG]

Article is not relevant at all.

Vegas is an outlier. The incrediable amounts of money you can earn doing service jobs coupled with the cheap housing makes a comfortable living enjoyed only there. I am sure there are other places but overall those same jobs people in most other places would struggle with.

Example. My father. A felon with a 9th grade education… Made casino executive there and a decent living… He admits there was no other place he could have gone and done the same.

I aslo had a friend who was one of the first ppl to graduate from UNLV law. She chose to remain a cocktail waiteress becasue she earns 100K a year in tips and there is no stress to her job past the end of her shift.

And I have many more antedotals as well.

So while I agree a degree is no guarntee of a decent life or paycheck I complete disagree with her article in using Las Vegas…

People throw money at you there…

Last example… me. When I worked the pools decks during the summer I made 125 to 200 dollars a day in tips, and we knew our management was stealing from us too because they were pooled, at 15, 16, and 17 years old… I would work 6 days a week… would have worked 7 if my mother had allowed..

CE

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]Maybe, but part of the implication is that there aren’t enough non-survival jobs, so people get pushed to survival jobs that pay decently.[/quote]

Agreed, and that’s why the article is so important — we really need to reevaluate the desire to push everyone into college, no matter what. As a parent, it’s depressing to read about all of the college graduates — of all kinds — who are struggling so much. If you read the (new) lawyer blogs and forums, the news there is just as bad. We are all forced into this race to the bottom, and too few people are even aware of it.

Just trying to point out what CE said so much better (my first post was not clear): Vegas is an outlier. Most service workers in the U.S. would struggle far more than those in Vegas. All the points mentioned by Brian and CE are valid.

But I also agree with you that Vegas is a horrible, miserable, depressing place (just IMO). There is not enough money in the world to make me want to live there.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=CA renter][quote=spdrun]Maybe, but part of the implication is that there aren’t enough non-survival jobs, so people get pushed to survival jobs that pay decently.[/quote]

Agreed, and that’s why the article is so important — we really need to reevaluate the desire to push everyone into college, no matter what. .[/quote]

While Vegas may be an outlier, the main point the author was making was highlighting the disdain that has arisen in our society for blue collar work.

Most of SoCal has a huge no traditional income market There are a lot of people making a lot of money doing neither white collar nor blue collar work and it isn’t all illicit

Overall I think the authors quote of the colleague terming the service job survival job how disconnected the disdain much of the educational system has for the real world. How likely is it that the one school the author is at has more grad students in her field than the state of Nevada is going to hire in the next decade? That is the reality I see when I see classrooms Kids chasing the dream with a marginally better chance of realizing it than the kids on the basketball court chasing theirs

Yes STEm, I know, 90% of the kids aren’t doing STEM. The kids aren’t really in the schools getting educated. They checking of prerequisites to go apply for jobs.

Universities used to teach you to think. Now they teach you to follow the rules in the box. It gets better. We taking many of the service industries and now starting to wrap requirements around them to have BA degrees.

[scaredyclassic]

saw the movie BOYHOOD this weekend.

it’s a great movie.

but has one really bad moment in it…this immigrant repair guy who appears to be making good money gets a lecture from the mom about how smart he is and how he should go to community college. they meet up late rin a GROAN moment.

other than that one isolated moment, this is a great movie…although my wife got bored toward the end, i did not…

[FlyerInHi]

In relation to income, America used to have cheap housing pretty much across the board. Less so than before, but still very good compared to developed economies.

I think the key is just matching income to expenses, housing being the biggest.

If I were starting from nothing, I’d live in a warm climate big city with low housing costs. Houston, Dallas, Orlando, Atlanta, Vegas, Phoenix.

[quote=CA renter]
But I also agree with you that Vegas is a horrible, miserable, depressing place (just IMO). There is not enough money in the world to make me want to live there.[/quote]

That’s a very strong statement. I’ve been to many cities, and although I prefer some over others, I find that every place is beautiful is some way.

[CA renter]

[quote=FlyerInHi]In relation to income, America used to have cheap housing pretty much across the board. Less so than before, but still very good compared to developed economies.

I think the key is just matching income to expenses, housing being the biggest.

If I were starting from nothing, I’d live in a warm climate big city with low housing costs. Houston, Dallas, Orlando, Atlanta, Vegas, Phoenix.

[quote=CA renter]
But I also agree with you that Vegas is a horrible, miserable, depressing place (just IMO). There is not enough money in the world to make me want to live there.[/quote]

That’s a very strong statement. I’ve been to many cities, and although I prefer some over others, I find that every place is beautiful is some way.[/quote]

I’ll admit my bias. My sister, who was homeless and dealing with drug and alcohol problems, moved to Vegas along with some other folks with many of the same problems. Everyone I’ve ever seen who goes there just spirals down…fast. Twenty Christmases ago, she ended up committing suicide by car.

Every time I go there, which is quite rare, I see all the same people. Get one block off the Strip and it’s a black hole of hopelessness and desperation stuck in the middle of the hot, dry, barren desert. It’s dirty, trashy, and full of down-on-their-luck people who are being exploited by rich, shady characters. Just a bad, bad vibe, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=no_such_reality]

While Vegas may be an outlier, the main point the author was making was highlighting the disdain that has arisen in our society for blue collar work.

Most of SoCal has a huge no traditional income market There are a lot of people making a lot of money doing neither white collar nor blue collar work and it isn’t all illicit

Overall I think the authors quote of the colleague terming the service job survival job how disconnected the disdain much of the educational system has for the real world. How likely is it that the one school the author is at has more grad students in her field than the state of Nevada is going to hire in the next decade? That is the reality I see when I see classrooms Kids chasing the dream with a marginally better chance of realizing it than the kids on the basketball court chasing theirs

Yes STEm, I know, 90% of the kids aren’t doing STEM. The kids aren’t really in the schools getting educated. They checking of prerequisites to go apply for jobs.

Universities used to teach you to think. Now they teach you to follow the rules in the box. It gets better. We taking many of the service industries and now starting to wrap requirements around them to have BA degrees.[/quote]

The author was trying to highlight many different, but related, ideas. Yes, this disdain for blue-collar work is something that has bothered me tremendously for many, many years. Having worked in both blue and white collar jobs, I can say for a fact that one group is absolutely NOT superior to the other. As some of the commenters from the article mentioned, there are a large number of “average” Joes in blue collar jobs who can run rings around many of the high-society types, both intellectually and with respect to character and integrity.

As for the STEM degrees, only some of them are lucrative degrees/professions. I know more than a few scientists with PhDs (physicists, biochemists, etc.) who are making about as much as a plumber or electrician.

And if the other 90% of the students went into the STEM subjects, the pay there would go even lower! That’s why I’ve never understood why working types would want everyone to get those degrees. It makes sense that the PTB want it, because then they could have highly-educated worker-slaves with STEM degrees who would be forced to work for $10/hour, just like everyone else. Add to this the fact that India and China are churning out STEM majors every year (about a million every year from each country, IIRC), and the future doesn’t look so bright there, either.

Liberal Arts subjects were meant to teach people how to think, but we know how those degrees are viewed today.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=CA renter]
Liberal Arts subjects were meant to teach people how to think, but we know how those degrees are viewed today.[/quote]

Keep in mind by the 1940s half the population had no more than an 8th grade education. A mere 6% had college degrees.

A liberal arts education was far more valuable, as a were the STEM degrees, comparatively. The liberal arts major were also more structured and they really did emphasize thinking. Today, I’m not so sure, so many anecdotal examples I know of the teachers just expecting you to puppet the pabalum they’re expousing.

An electrician, plumber, chef, etc, those are solid professions. They need an education in knowing how to think, manage their money, smell BS, etc. But the current output of the education complex? I’m not to sure.

[FlyerInHi]

CAr, the bar has been raised. Why would you not want the whole population to have college degrees?

Taking on student debts to obtain a college degree is a separate issue. But, all else being equal, the more educated the population, the better the society.

We’re competing with China and India in some respects. But we want to them to catch up with us in terms of development. Then we all improve even more together.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=CA renter] Get one block off the Strip and it’s a black hole of hopelessness and desperation stuck in the middle of the hot, dry, barren desert. It’s dirty, trashy, and full of down-on-their-luck people who are being exploited by rich, shady characters. Just a bad, bad vibe, IMHO.[/quote]

You have to get a little farther away than 1 block off the Strip. Go to Summerlin, Henderson, the Southwest. Right now, the weather is nice.

Compared to 20 years ago, Vegas is now very corporate and becoming Disney for adults. The 2008 recession prompted Vegas to diversify. I prefer Vegas to Palm Springs or Phoenix.

They are working on building a medical school, so in the future, I’m expecting many medical students from California.

[Anonymous]

[quote=FlyerInHi]CAr, the bar has been raised. Why would you not want the whole population to have college degrees?

all else being equal, the more educated the population, the better the society.

[/quote]

What evidence do you have the “society is better” if more people had college degrees? That is propaganda that the academic industry wants everyone to believe.

Like the classic line from Caddyshack, “the world needs ditch diggers too”.

If everybody went to college that would be an incredible waste of time and money for millions of people. Most real world jobs do not actually require college degree but as others have pointed out, there is a clear bias against blue collar work in our society.

[FlyerInHi]

What’s wrong with educated blue collar workers, ditch diggers? A college educated waitress is a much better one than one who’s not.

You’re assuming that there’s a cost to college that’s not worth the payoff. Maybe.

But if we could have e-education and some new ways to deliver education at low cost, then why not? Or why not teach HS at AP/college level?

There’s no bias against blue collar work. There’s bias against low education, as there should be, for without society pushing us, we wouldn’t strive to become better.

[Anonymous]

[quote=FlyerInHi] A college educated waitress is a much better one than one who’s not.
.[/quote]

WTF? Do you work for the academic industry trade group? This is the most ridiculous statement I’ve heard in a while.

[FlyerInHi]

All else being equal, our hypothetical college educated waitress speak better English, maybe a foreign language. She knows more about the history of the dishes and ingredients she’s serving. She can offer better suggestions. I think the author of the NYT op-ed is such a waitress.

[Anonymous]

[quote=FlyerInHi]All else being equal, our hypothetical college educated waitress speak better English, maybe a foreign language. She knows more about the history of the dishes and ingredients she’s serving. She can offer better suggestions. I think the author of the NYT op-ed is such a waitress.[/quote]

None of those skills you mention have anything to do with going to college or not.

I have to assume you are joking or being sarcastic because each statement you make is more moronic than the one before.

[Author]

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