Hesistant to dip my foot in

[flyer]

Glad Rich limits discussions regarding hot button issues–especially wrt politics and especially during this political season–when, imo, we have a choice of choosing one form of sewage over another, so, except for this comment, I’m glad to know there are built-in restraints so I’m not tempted to rail on that topic.

In the end, I doubt if any of our posts will change the course of human history, but I really enjoy reading all of the different, sometimes extreme and lengthy opinions on this site. That’s what keeps it both informative and entertaining.

[sdgrrl]

[quote=ucodegen][quote=svelte]One more thing: this house is definitely a flip.

It was bought in Nov 2015 for $250K, they are now asking $125k more than that.

I assume it looked like what is shown in street view when they bought it:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8339581,-116.9404936,3a,75y,91.09h,81.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stXqNhwwWC_RPVeOVAAU4uA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Ha! That if funny you noticed the horses. Next door are chickens, I did my best looking to see if there was a rooster.

I’m from Texas. Stereotypical in some ways and unique in others. Every summer I was sent to my godparents ranch. The smell of horses don’t bother me. The day was super hot and all was well. I think I need to go back over and look for a rooster again though…
A flip doesn’t bother me per se, but its worth noting the upgrades were probably made with the intention of resale, not necessarily to the quality of someone who planned on living there long term.[/quote]
I second this.. found exactly the same thing. It does make me a bit suspicious. Strange that there is a new-ish conex outside of the house. Street view is from Jun 2011.

With the price listed $299k and only entertaining offers over $375k.. I am suspicious that the realtor may not be an independent party and may have been party to the flip itself. Caveat Emptor – do the due diligence and trust no realtor. There are some good ones and then there are ‘others’ who are willing to screw over their client in a heartbeat.

NOTE: In the pictures on street view, there are horses on the neighbors property.. be aware of the effect of wind and smell.[/quote]

[sdgrrl]

[quote=Rich Toscano][quote=bearishgurl]For whatever reason, flu, your animosity and bitterness (currently towards me) has been shining on high beam around here in recent weeks. I thinks its well past time that you block me so you aren’t bothered by my posts … especially during the business day when you are supposedly “working.” You’ve turned into the “Champion Thread Polluter” extraordinaire.[/quote]

Don’t worry bg, you’re still the reigning champ!

Well, I was going to just leave it at that, but it feels too snarky to just make a comment like that without explaining the grievance behind it.

Speaking not as the site owner here, but just an observer — a guy who reads the comments. I’m hard pressed to find any significant thread where you have not written epic length posts, a good proportion of which fall into one (or more!) of the following categories:

– barely relevant
– even less relevant than that
– not even understandable, really
– wild speculation presented as fact

And I’ll admit to some personal bias here, but it doesn’t help that so many of your novel-length comments these days are impassioned defenses of that goose-stepping canned ham who you inexplicably think would be a good president.

So, when you actually accuse someone else of being a Champion(!) Thread Polluter… boy, I just can’t sit back and watch that without saying something.

To end on a positive note, I do appreciate that you usually keep things polite and positive, and you are a good citizen in following the “no political threadjacks” rule. But with that said, if you think “Thread Pollution” is a problem… you should take a look at your own posts and consider how you might be contributing to it.[/quote]

Don’t worry BG you’re still the reigning champ!

Dying over here.

[sdgrrl]

[quote=Rich Toscano]Hi sdgrrl – Sorry to be so late to the party here. I don’t have much to add to the many excellent comments in the thread. Here are a couple thoughts that jump out (which have been expressed by others, but fwiw I agree):

– The bait-n-switch low listing price is cheesy but while it might annoy me, it wouldn’t really change whether I want to buy the property or not. What matters is the price you can get it at, and whether it’s worth it to you.

– The “as is” thing could be a deal breaker, or a complete non-issue… that entirely depends on the state of the house. So I echo everyone’s advice to have someone inspect the hell out of the place, and only then will you be able to evaluate this aspect (and the accompanying super weird “afraid of their own shadow” comment). I’ll be curious to hear what they turn up. BTW if you don’t know a good inspector, I really liked the guy who did my house, and have recommended him to others with good results: http://www.masterspecs.info

Overall there’s some unusual aspects to it but nothing that would kill the deal for me personally — pending, of course, the findings of the home inspection.

With that said, bear in mind that I don’t have anything resembling expertise in individual real estate transactions. So, just my two cents, for what it’s worth.

The thing I have more of a handle on is the overall market and specifically valuations. There, not much has changed since last year’s update. The net of it is, homes are quite expensive (though not bubble expensive), but rates are so low that if you are financing the bulk of your purchase, it can still make sense to buy, because you are locking in a pretty reasonable monthly nut. However, that only really helps you if you intend to hang on to the home for a long time. If you have to sell reasonably soon, then the change in price will matter more than monthly payment, and with valuations at these levels, that doesn’t really seem like a good risk vs. reward.

So tell me a bit more about your “intentions” towards the home. Do you envision staying there long-term? If home prices were to decline 20% (not a prediction, but an entirely plausible possibility based on current valuations), would you be ok, or would that screw up your plans somehow? Even if you do want to stay there, is there a chance you’d be forced to move by job changes etc? All that might help determine whether it makes sense to buy in general — this place, or otherwise.

Keep us posted on the place… if you get that far, I’m interested to hear how the inspection goes (mostly bc of the somewhat ominous “afraid of their own shadow” comment), and whether you are able to find out why it fell out of escrow.

Rich[/quote]

Hi Rich,

Happy to here from you. Thank you for keeping the site going.

My guy went out and looked at the property again today to be sure he wanted to move forward. The seller has agreed to pay the closing cost and also give a $5k credit for landscaping. This is a big turnaround from their first counter offer.

Our goal is long term. Over time make it our little dream home. The yard is a blank canvas and it will take a few years to get it how I want it doing this by myself. We are patient.

Both of us won’t be moving out of thee area for a long time. We don’t have children, but I would like my niece to have it one day. Whether she sells or lives there it will be a nice cushion.

If the home price drops 20% we wouldn’t be happy, but this is long term so I think over years the value will go up and hopefully you do too. Really hope you do too.

We have an inspector we worked with last time when we almost bought a home in Alpine. The repair list was insane. We are VA so we also have to get a VA inspector.

I will definitely keep you all posted. I think everyone really wants to see the inspector’s report. Will share as soon as we get.

Glad you caught that part about “afraid of their own shadow.”

[sdgrrl]

[quote=flu][quote=bearishgurl]sdgrrl, I agree with Rich about examining how long you want to actually own the property but for a different reason. If you guys are actually purchasing VA, the you could have a 100% loan. You say the sellers are refusing to pay any of your closing costs and your VA Funding Fee at 2% will be a hefty $7700 (if you pay $385K for the house). With your other closing costs and possible loan costs added to the funding fee, your closing costs could come to $12K or more which would mean that you will already “upside down” by ~$12K at the close of escrow (COE).

That’s not a good (financial) place to be in that area if you’re not planning on holding the property for at least 10 years, IMO. As you can see from the lower prices up there, Lakeside does not hold its value or appreciate at the same rates as closer-in (incorporated) communities in SD County do.

A few observations:

The 2011 “street view” pic reveals the following. There are no sidewalks or storm drains on this street (in an unincorporated area). The home is lower than the street. The crawlspace of this home could have been flooded multiple times in heavy rains over the years as there doesn’t appear to be any french drains installed in the front or side of the lot to drain off the backyard, which is lower still. The home and lot were likely in gross disrepair when the current seller/flipper purchased it. The June 2011 street view pic reveals a 20+ foot industrial-type trailer (as ucodegen mentioned) parked on the property in front of the house. A previous owner (before the flipper/seller) could have purchased it for almost nothing from DRMO or a local GSA auction.

http://www.governmentauctiondatabase.com/locations/CA/2489

I feel they may have acquired it to use to dispose of wild, overgrown landscaping and termite eaten and dry-rotted/moldy construction debris (due to previous flooding) as renting a “roll-on” can be prohibitively expensive. (The flipper/seller could have purchased the property with the trailer still there.) When the previous owner was gutting it and found the extent of the damage, they decided they didn’t (for whatever reason) want to put the money into it because in 2011/12, the market had literally gone to sh!t out there. They hung onto the property until they could unload it on a professional flipper in late 2015 and recover their money out of it (and likely more). The owner who sold to the flipper was likely a longtime owner or even an “heir” who very well may have borrowed money on it during the loose-lending era of the aughts. (Note: I have not viewed the public record chain-of-title on this property.)

The lot is essentially sloping down from the street to the house, with a third, lower tier as the backyard. The parcel may slope a little further downhill from the backyard but we can’t see it from the pics provided. The driveway in one place, in front of a window has an offset crack (we can’t tell exactly by how much). This nonetheless indicates soil movement because the concrete is so old that it is likely a tree was never growing there. The driveway was not repaired/replaced by the flipper/seller. There is another 1-2 feet of dirt between the driveway and a short retaining wall. The house is 1-2 feet lower than the retaining wall and was completely re-stuccoed, so we can’t tell if that crack (from moving soil over the years) has affected the short retaining wall (which could have been easily repaired) or penetrated the actual stemwall of the house.

In addition, its former roof (in 2011) was decrepit and probably leaked in one or more places. However the walls inside (possibly originally plaster) were likely replaced with drywall by the flipper.

If your offer is accepted and you open escrow, I would get a highly-qualified home inspector (or better yet, a civil engineer) out there pronto and go through the crawlspace with a high beam flashlight and a fine-toothed comb and whatever other meters/tools they use to look for dryrot in the subfloor and evidence of seepage (from cracks) and mold along the stemwalls.

A more expedient (and cheaper) way to get the info you need on whether to proceed with this transaction would be to insist on seeing any reports on that property paid for by previous buyer-principals who walked. You need to make this request immediately after your offer is accepted. And reject the reports promptly, if necessary, within your contingency period in order to get your earnest money back.

Good Luck and be mindful of your dates! I’m not sure properties in this particular area are for first-timers … especially those who are putting little money down and have low to moderate incomes and minor children to support (not saying that’s you, btw, sdgrrl).[/quote]

How the hell did you become an real estate expert (LETDLITA) in Lakeside and with this particular house simply by looking at a bunch pictures in an MLS listing???? Do you realize how ridiculous this is?????

Its like the last time you did this with the barrister(?) House in mira Mesa, in which your comments on that house, again , only based on the pictures you saw in an mls listing and from Google maps, was totally off too.[/quote]

I have to give BG credit. I also noticed those cracks and thought the same thing. The front will take some work

[ucodegen]

[quote=flu][quote=bearishgurl]
A few observations:

The 2011 “street view” pic reveals the following. There are no sidewalks or storm drains on this street (in an unincorporated area). The home is lower than the street. The crawlspace of this home could have been flooded multiple times in heavy rains over the years as there doesn’t appear to be any french drains installed in the front or side of the lot to drain off the backyard, which is lower still. The home and lot were likely in gross disrepair when the current seller/flipper purchased it. The June 2011 street view pic reveals a 20+ foot industrial-type trailer (as ucodegen mentioned) parked on the property in front of the house. A previous owner (before the flipper/seller) could have purchased it for almost nothing from DRMO or a local GSA auction.

http://www.governmentauctiondatabase.com/locations/CA/2489

I feel they may have acquired it to use to dispose of wild, overgrown landscaping and termite eaten and dry-rotted/moldy construction debris (due to previous flooding) as renting a “roll-on” can be prohibitively expensive. (The flipper/seller could have purchased the property with the trailer still there.) When the previous owner was gutting it and found the extent of the damage, they decided they didn’t (for whatever reason) want to put the money into it because in 2011/12, the market had literally gone to sh!t out there. They hung onto the property until they could unload it on a professional flipper in late 2015 and recover their money out of it (and likely more). The owner who sold to the flipper was likely a longtime owner or even an “heir” who very well may have borrowed money on it during the loose-lending era of the aughts. (Note: I have not viewed the public record chain-of-title on this property.)

The lot is essentially sloping down from the street to the house, with a third, lower tier as the backyard. The parcel may slope a little further downhill from the backyard but we can’t see it from the pics provided. The driveway in one place, in front of a window has an offset crack (we can’t tell exactly by how much). This nonetheless indicates soil movement because the concrete is so old that it is likely a tree was never growing there. The driveway was not repaired/replaced by the flipper/seller. There is another 1-2 feet of dirt between the driveway and a short retaining wall. The house is 1-2 feet lower than the retaining wall and was completely re-stuccoed, so we can’t tell if that crack (from moving soil over the years) has affected the short retaining wall (which could have been easily repaired) or penetrated the actual stemwall of the house.

In addition, its former roof (in 2011) was decrepit and probably leaked in one or more places. However the walls inside (possibly originally plaster) were likely replaced with drywall by the flipper.

If your offer is accepted and you open escrow, I would get a highly-qualified home inspector (or better yet, a civil engineer) out there pronto and go through the crawlspace with a high beam flashlight and a fine-toothed comb and whatever other meters/tools they use to look for dryrot in the subfloor and evidence of seepage (from cracks) and mold along the stemwalls.
[/quote]

How the hell did you become an real estate expert (LETDLITA) in Lakeside and with this particular house simply by looking at a bunch pictures in an MLS listing???? Do you realize how ridiculous this is?????

Its like the last time you did this with the barrister(?) House in mira Mesa, in which your comments on that house, again , only based on the pictures you saw in an mls listing and from Google maps, was totally off too.[/quote]
I would have to agree with bearishgurl on this one, for most of the items brought up (condition), but not necessarily all(flipper vs prev buyer etc).

1) Houses out in this part of the countryside, built when this one was built.. did not have much if any in building codes, including compaction studies. The house is below the driveway and the driveway has an offset split. This means that there is movement that likely includes the house, moving away from the road. Gravity does not shift up hill. That area is not bedrock. The short retaining wall between the driveway and the house is severely cracked – to the point of almost being broken up. I don’t know the height of the wall, but fairly certain it does not have a proper foundation. There is also a height shift that can be seen on the driveway near the entrance. There is further confirmation on the road itself, the center of the road has a 3 to 6 foot long crack running the length of it, across from the house.

2) It is a downward sloping lot, the backyard does slope down further (one of the listing pictures shows a view). The house cuts across the lot and the old street view picture shows water staining on the bottom of the door (Since it is under a large eve, it would indicate water buildup). There also seems to be water staining on the stucco above the window, but below the eves (which would tend to indicate leaky roof). I don’t see any stucco cracking on this side though.
[img_assist|nid=25939|title=8683 Golden Ridge Rd, 92040 – in 2011 – annotated|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=54]
NOTE: look at it in original size to see the detail.

3) Looking at the 2011 Google street view shows that the asphalt shingles were decaying (the bonded colored stone aggregate on top was falling off showing that the asphalt was getting hard and brittle) – this is why the shingle surface looked the way it did. The asphalt shingles on it do tell me that it was at one time re-roofed (original would likely be wood/cedar(shake), asphalt was a bit expensive when originally built). It doesn’t look swaybacked – so the rafters are probably ok – though the ridgeboard may not be up to standard as well as the rafters (they are probably 2×4 no 2x6s then, and the centering might be further apart) – you can only use 2x4s on the type of braced rafters used on current construction – though the bracing does eat into attic space.

4) Electrical standards were also different when it was built. Basically no residential electrical standards. I suspect no 3rd wire ground wires anywhere in the house. Type of wire may be the old asbestos covered wires (which can short if they get wet). The ground rod that is currently supposed to be driven into the ground (generally near the utility service panel) may or may not be there, depth and condition probably unknown (check for a noisy somewhat ‘floaty’ ground, particularly if a medium to large appliance is plugged in and running).

5) Water plumbing will be the galvanized steel pipe unless changed. This stuff does last a long time – however it does get plugged up inside by hard water. The other problem with it is that you have to be careful mixing copper with the galvanized steel due to galvanic reaction causing corrosion near the joint. Galvanized steel also looses its corrosion resistance when the zinc coating erodes/corrodes off.

6) Internal wastewater drainage is probably cast iron. The area is probably not on sewer. Purchaser would need to find this out as well as where the septic tank accesses are and size of leach field.

—

I don’t know who put the conex there. I think it was to hold tools while working on the house so that the tools would not be stolen – but this is just conjecture – though supported by the paint cans near the front door in the picture linked above. As to who did it, whether it was a failed flip picked up by another flip -dunno, I would be guessing. However it is 2011 to 2016. Long time for a rehab. If the conex was there because the owner needed to put stuff in there because the house was leaking… well that would really worry me.

I don’t think the conex was for debris because you don’t need a locking conex for that, you can just rent an open top dumpster – easier to dump into and cheaper than a conex. Often dumpster fees include the disposal cost of the contents while conex(s) don’t.

NOTE1: Pictures from Google maps can tell you a lot, if you know what to look for. They may not tell you the absolute truth, but it definitely gives you something to look at. Knowing the area and codes at the time of original construction also help.

NOTE2: When this house was originally built, 2x4s were really 2×4 – but rough sawn. Currently they are 1.75″ x 3.5″ .

[Rich Toscano]

[quote=sdgrrl]
If the home price drops 20% we wouldn’t be happy, but this is long term so I think over years the value will go up and hopefully you do too. Really hope you do too.
[/quote]

Sure, everything (at least, non-bubble things) goes up over a sufficiently long time frame… the question is how much.

I guess if I were to boil it down, I’d say, if you find a place you love and lock in a long-term monthly payment you can afford, buying right now can be a perfectly sensible thing. But it should be about that, locking in a reasonable price on a good long-term place — not about appreciation potential, because valuations pose a headwind against appreciation.

That’s my view anyway, fwiw…

[mixxalot]

Uh oh, BG is baaaaack!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=mixxalot]Uh oh, BG is baaaaack![/quote]I tried to help you here on the forum to find a house to make an offer on, mixxalot, on at least two occasions, if my memory serves me correctly. So did several other Piggs.

But you didn’t respond to any of our suggestions, except to post weeks/months later that you were still looking for a house. So I gave up. And so did you, apparently.

Your later preferred locations were all over the map, as I recall. Did you actually ever purchase a residence for yourself in SD County?

[bearishgurl]

Yeah, ucodegen, I also thought the trailer (Conex) may have been used to store things in because the house had been flooded. I do agree that a “roll on” with an open-top (with one end open, if desired) would be better to use to get rid of debris. However, with county parcels which are lower than the street (as this one is), I’ve seen multiple instances where a gravel or dirt … or even muddy half-circle driveway made it impossible for a tractor trailer to deliver a roll-on and set it down on the property. The driveway was too steep, too slippery, a weird angle, etc and there was a danger that the tractor trailer would end up inadvertently backing into the house. I feel the previous homeowner brought that thing down with his own vehicles and it was still there when the flipper bought it. It is possible that the property was vacant for some or all of years between when the google street view photo was taken and when the flipper bought it in November 2015.

I completely agree with the lack of building codes in SD County in 1947 … especially in unincorporated areas as we are discussing here. The City of Chula Vista was long incorporated by then and had few building codes at that time. Yes, the soil was not compacted before pouring a foundation or driveway/patio and no rebar or “big rock” beds were used. In addition, there was really no code enforcement in place until the late ’60’s. Homeowners built all kinds of things on their lots … even garages … all the way to the lot lines and these structures are mostly all still standing today (“grandfathered”).

I agree that the flippers could have “fixed” that short retaining wall in less than one day, but you’re right, it likely has an inadequate or no foundation and has likely moved closer to the house over the years. More lipstick on the pig.

Thanks for panning the street in google to see the continuation of the crack. I didn’t bother to do that.

The prior tax roll value on the current supplemental tax bill is only $75,949. For that area, this indicates an approximate late ’70’s purchase by one or more of the owners (or their benefactors).

I’m interested to hear what the OP’s (or former buyer principal’s) inspection report(s) turn up.

[ucodegen]

[quote=bearishgurl]Yeah, ucodegen, I also thought the trailer (Conex) may have been used to store things in because the house had been flooded. I do agree that a “roll on” with an open-top (with one end open, if desired) would be better to use to get rid of debris. However, with county parcels which are lower than the street (as this one is), I’ve seen multiple instances where a gravel or dirt … or even muddy half-circle driveway made it impossible for a tractor trailer to deliver a roll-on and set it down on the property. The driveway was too steep, too slippery, a weird angle, etc and there was a danger that the tractor trailer would end up inadvertently backing into the house.
I feel the previous homeowner brought that thing down with his own vehicles and it was still there when the flipper bought it. It is possible that the property was vacant for some or all of years between when the google street view photo was taken and when the flipper bought it in November 2015.
[/quote]
Conex(s) are considerably heavier than a roll on. They are reinforced to be stacked on ship and handle the motion while on the bottom of a stack of conex(s) on ship. They are reinforced on the edges for stacking and along the sides and doors to handle product shift during transport. Conex(s) don’t come with wheels, they are transported by semi, much like a roll on. Personally, I would rather a semi deliver something heavy than trying to jockey it with a pickup/trailer. The weight of the semi is safety on uneven ground, and the number of tires is traction and control ( twin axle duals). It will be heavier than the object being delivered. On the other hand, a conex or roll on could outpower a pickup on uneven ground – NOTE: I say this as an owner of a 1 ton 4×4 pickup who also offroads it.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Thanks for panning the street in google to see the continuation of the crack. I didn’t bother to do that.
[/quote]I used to do some satellite image exploitation, and in my hobby of photography, I tend to pixel peep – so it tends to be part of my ‘behavior’ with images.[quote=bearishgurl]
The prior tax roll value on the current supplemental tax bill is only $75,949. For that area, this indicates an approximate late ’70’s purchase by one or more of the owners (or their benefactors).[/quote]
Probably when the asphalt shingles were put on. The weathering looks like over 30 years – to get that far down to the felt.

[ucodegen]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=mixxalot]Uh oh, BG is baaaaack![/quote]I tried to help you here on the forum to find a house to make an offer on, mixxalot, on at least two occasions, if my memory serves me correctly. So did several other Piggs.
[/quote]
Umm.. he is baiting.. shouldn’t respond. This way the person just gets to listen to the virtual echo of their own ‘voice’. The loneliness of no response can be more effective than a quick thrust of self righteousness.

[sdgrrl]

Most recent communication:

I am going back and forth with Max the listing agent. He is asking questions for the seller. They would like to set up with you ahead of time that if the appraisal does not come in at value that they will have to limit your closing costs credit to $5,000. Would you be able to come out of pocket $3200.00 for this home? You will have put a deposit down of $3,500. So, basically if the appraisal comes in low you would only get back $300.00 from your deposit.

Seller’s are eliminating negotiations for the worst case scenario.

My advice is to go for it – you are getting a home for $3200.00. It is your decision – just let me know.

[sdgrrl]

Wow. I don’t know who said it, but someone thought the realtor was an investor. His brother is the seller.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdgrrl]Wow. I don’t know who said it, but someone thought the realtor was an investor. His brother is the seller.[/quote]sdgrrl, this is typical with flipper teams. Many of them are family affairs, with an “in-house” (related) agent or broker among them. However, the listing agent in your MLS pfl is shown as Kristi Stevens, a female. Have you ever actually met her?

I don’t like the new request. It seems they want to ensure that they have a few thousand in case you walk, for whatever reason. They want you to hang in there as long as it takes your lender to order your VA appraisal, the appraisal to be completed and the report to come back. Think about that. That could take well beyond your 17-day (or 12-day, as the case may be) contingency period.

It appears that you were trying to buy it with a very low downpayment (fraction of the closing costs) or as a VA no no. What does your agent advise you to do?

[Author]

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