Food Stamp Riots

[NotCranky]

[quote=all][quote=Blogstar]del[/quote]

You are missing CTRL+ALT.[/quote]
Thanks.

BG, you could be missing something because you are making a lot of assumptions…it’s that simple. Not to say I have a crystal ball.

[no_such_reality]

This is from Mother Jones

The good job they’re referencing here is equivalent to about $37K with benefits.

You may notice down trends that started in 2000 for College educated. I suspect those lines will begin to look like high school lines over the next thirty years unless we make fundamental changes or advances. That percentage is the percentage of that group of workers. i.e. ~20% of the some college work force have good jobs.

In aggregate, the rate is about 25%.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=no_such_reality]This is from Mother Jones

The good job they’re referencing here is equivalent to about $37K with benefits.

You may notice down trends that started in 2000 for College educated. I suspect those lines will begin to look like high school lines over the next thirty years unless we make fundamental changes or advances. That percentage is the percentage of that group of workers. i.e. ~20% of the some college work force have good jobs.

In aggregate, the rate is about 25%.[/quote]

$37K annually will go a l-o-o-ong way in a lot of US markets. And with or w/o benefits, a $37K salary will qualify an individual for a small healthcare subsidy and a family for a huge healthcare subsidy to sign up on their state’s exchange.

Even $24-$27K job for ONE household member will allow a family of 2-4 to rent a 2-3 bdrm house, condo or apt (without rental assistance) in many US markets (and perhaps still qualify for SNAP/EBT). And at that income level, they can qualify for “free” healthcare.

Your Mother Jones chart doesn’t specify if the “college or more” line represents ALL persons who attended college or trade school at one point or only the college graduates.

If only 25% of the college-educated of working age have “good” jobs (jobs paying $37K + benefits?), then we, as a nation, have to ask ourselves if college is actually worth the money for the masses OR if the fault of underemployment is due to a former student’s “unemployable” major (on a case-by-case basis).

I suspect it is due to the latter, combined with a refusal to relocate for a good job.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=all][quote=Blogstar]del[/quote]

You are missing CTRL+ALT.[/quote]
Thanks.

BG, you could be missing something because you are making a lot of assumptions…it’s that simple. Not to say I have a crystal ball.[/quote]

The only “assumptions” I have made here is that the US far northern, mountainous and coastal residents will continue to need (and purchase) the food and gas which is grown and produced in the nation’s midsection. And long-haul trucking companies and the railroads will continue to carry it all to its destinations.

These things aren’t going to change in our lifetimes, IMO.

[no_such_reality]

Your too busy pontificating from the chip on your shoulder to realize you’re not even part of the same discussion the rest of us are having.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=no_such_reality]Your too busy pontificating from the chip on your shoulder to realize you’re not even part of the same discussion the rest of us are having.[/quote]

Sorry you feel that way. Unlike you, I just don’t feel all these “labor jobs” are going anywhere.

[bearishgurl]

They’re just not speaking up, but I don’t feel that most Piggs (as representative of Joe and Jane 6p) really believe in a “gloom and doom” scenario for the US as expressed here by some posters. Nor do I believe the country is in a downward spiral. I just think we’re in a “transition” of sorts which will bring us all to a different expectation of what it means to be a middle-class American (yes, upper middle-class included).

Over the last 15 years, especially, expectations of how a poor thru upper-middle class citizen should be able to live have gone thru the roof.

These “expectations” were and are unrealistic and unsustainable for most families.

The presence or absence of a “college education” for one or more heads of household really have nothing to do with it.

And no, I don’t have any chip on my shoulder. All my needs are taken care of and will continue to be throughout the rest of my life, whether I work part-time, full-time or not at all for stretches of time.

And I love working, btw ….

But thanks for your concern :=]

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=CDMA ENG]I think everyone here, with a rare few, understands the problem.

As the reduction of labor, and by extension people, continues due to automation, and other such things, it makes me wonder what will be the drivers for population reduction.

Also the boomers dying off will do nothing for us…

It is well known that:

Gen Y Population >> Gen X & Boomers Populations

And reduction is the key issue here for a greater disturbution of wealth, education, and social well-being…

SDDuuuude once showed me a study showing that most likely it would be the price of resources.

China is trying to be proactive with a “One Child Policy”.

MISH thinks it will be war…

One could argue that it would probably be a combination of the first and the third but either way the demand for physical… and intellectual labor (though disportantionly physical) is disappearing and unless something is address proactively then the third option is mostly likely…

Fortunately we, as a country, are very good at the third… that does not mean I condone it.

CE[/quote]

Are the rest of the US all of a sudden going to stop needing the food and gas and oil that the country’s midsection produces … all with PHYSICAL LABOR jobs??

What about gradually? I don’t think it will be uncommon that new gas-powered vehicles will still be running 30 years from now. And they are STILL being manufactured today. And will the rest of the country’s residents have no need for the meat, dairy, grain and produce (grown in flyover America) in the coming decades?

I understand automation is used successfully in factories but humans are still needed to supervise it. Gen X/Y have been leaving family farms to attend college elsewhere for decades … and perhaps never returning. How will this change?

Sorry, but I just don’t see Americans surviving on MREs and seaweed briquettes in any of our lifetimes. I see Gen Y getting living-wage jobs, partly due to massive boomer retirements from here on out. That is, those Gen Y who are serious about majoring in an employable field and willing to relocate, if necessary.

Am I missing something??[/quote]

A lot. No one assumes a “George Jetson” future where a machine does one hundered percent of the work. It has been explained, multiple times, why there is will a huge reduction in need for physical, and some intellectual, labor.

If you continue to miss the point, especially after some excellent examples have been presented, it is your doing.

Again… Everyone, except for a few, accepts the idea…

For a moment let’s turn to you arguement about retiring Boomers…

Gen Y Population >> Gen X Population…

So this not being a 1 to 1 factor doesn’t really pan out in favor of labor (physical or intellectual).

We should move well past this arguement as it is not even an arguement, at this point, but turn our attention on how, as NSR put it “Change the world funadmentally” without ripping ourselves apart globally, nationally, locally, tribally, and so forth.

There are millions in China without real wage jobs… You only need to look at China… It will be only a matter of time before something radical happens there. They will be the crystal ball for other modern societies.

You can you continue your denial… Mostly likely you will be dead and I will be out of the work force and dying myself when the magnitude of this problem comes to bear… so no sweat there…

Hopefully we have recognized this and dealt with the problem before it becomes too late and the third option is rendered.

I do not see an apopyloptic future, as you state, where we are eating MREs and Seaweed biscuits.

To be quite frank I see us more like Mexico or Central America… Where the rich are abudcted daily and the rule of law is anything but…

“Ignorance frequently begets confidence more then confidence does…” Charlie “D”

CE

[bearishgurl]

Good points CE and I’ve got to step out now but wanted to point out that there are/will be much more retiring boomers than Gen X workers available to fill those slots … not sure about how many extra slots will spill over to Gen Y but I would think half … if the organization doesn’t go by seniority for promotions. Why? Because Gen Y are better at automated tasks than Gen X, since they’ve had access to computers all of their lives.

In comparison to boomers and Gen Y, Gen X was a smaller population.

And since America is becoming more and more of a “police state” every month, I just don’t see the lawlessness in our future as you do.

Yes, I certainly will be dead and so will many other Piggs, including you (and maybe even our children) when the sh!t will supposedly hit the fan in this country.

I don’t see this as something we have to be concerned about today.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=CDMA ENG]
A lot. No one assumes a “George Jetson” future where a machine does one hundered percent of the work. It has been explained, multiple times, why there is will a huge reduction in need for physical, and some intellectual, labor.[/quote]

I think a lot of intellectual jobs, such as Software Developers, are beginning the winter of their discontent and looking at a future that manufacturing was looking at starting in the late 1970s.

One last attempt at prospective. We’ve talked oil, there’s a boatload of good paying jobs in the Dakota oil fields.

Since 2007, the Bakken Oil Formation counties have experienced explosive growth and current have 3% unemployment. Impressive, be flexible. Go where the jobs are.

Now reality. From 2007-2011, all industries in those counties added 27,954 jobs. Twenty seven thousand jobs. Overall North Dakota employment grew about 30,000 jobs since 2007. A part of the Bakken Formation is in Montana but Montana has actually lost employment since 2007 in spite of oil field work.

Why is that important? Perspective. San Diego City has 56,160 people currently unemployed looking for work. A little over twice ALL the jobs created with the oil boom in the Bakken Field.

San Diego county, has 125,860 people unemployed and looking for work. That 4.5X all the jobs, across industries created in the Bakken field boom.

Finally, in that same time period, San Diego City grew a net 40,000 people.

[The-Shoveler]

You don’t need to replace 100% to create huge problems,

just replace 20-30% and see what happens.

[spdrun]

Interesting question: if people are no longer tied to a job to get health insurance, will this encourage more people who are unhappy with their jobs to drop out of the labor market, thus opening these jobs to people who need them more?

Some Conservatives are saying that “Obamacare discourages work” as if it were a bad thing, when in reality, it may be a balancing factor for the labor market.

[The-Shoveler]

As long as you can eat!!

Just kidding but at least it has to do with the subject.

[ucodegen]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=all][quote=Blogstar]del[/quote]

You are missing CTRL+ALT.[/quote]
Thanks.

BG, you could be missing something because you are making a lot of assumptions…it’s that simple. Not to say I have a crystal ball.[/quote]
She is making a heck of a lot of assumptions. She is looking at the motivated group of Gen Ys, ignoring those that are not. Just want to party, smoke weed and play video games. One I know of intentionally broke their old phone because they wanted a new iPhone, and they might get their Mom to buy them a new phone if the old was broken. This person was encouraged by their peer group to do this. BTW, this person is over 18.

We have been so concerned about not offending, being PC, not making others feel bad about themselves and not allowing people to have difficulties. How are kids and youth that have grown up in this scenario going to handle having to get up at 4am in the morning to do physical labor? How are they going to handle responsibility? Disappointment?

They want and have no patience to work for it or to delay gratification. They want instant gratification and they have learned that if they throw a tantrum, they can get it and steal it if you still don’t get it. Honest and integrity don’t matter. Lie if it gets you what you want.

While there have always been people like this, as a percentage of the population, their numbers are increasing and that is the real problem.

[ucodegen]

[quote=bearishgurl]The only “assumptions” I have made here is that the US far northern, mountainous and coastal residents will continue to need (and purchase) the food and gas which is grown and produced in the nation’s midsection. And long-haul trucking companies and the railroads will continue to carry it all to its destinations.[/quote] The central sections are not the oil producers you think they are. The Dakotas are north(newest oil boom), Alaska is way north. Have you ever seen vegetables grown in Alaska? Creepy until you realize that during the summer, they have 20 hours of sunlight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_oil_boom

80 lb cabbage when I looked..
http://www.alaska.com/about/weather/

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