- This topic has 91 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 8 months ago by
FlyerInHi.
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AuthorPosts
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March 30, 2020 at 1:32 PM #22824
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March 30, 2020 at 1:49 PM #816063
Gunslinger
GuestJust stopped by after many years to look for the lovely gal from Chula Vista. Thanks to her my brood picked up many units. Hard to beat those prices per door.
In trying times such as these I find comfort and healing in scripture.
“Be assured, an evil person will not go unpunished, but the offspring of the righteous will be delivered.”
Proverbs 11:21
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April 2, 2020 at 12:31 PM #816121
barnaby33
Participantbut the offspring of the righteous will be delivered.
Yes but will it happen in 2 days or less?
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April 2, 2020 at 1:23 PM #816123
scaredyclassic
Participant[quote=barnaby33]
but the offspring of the righteous will be delivered.
Yes but will it happen in 2 days or less?[/quote]
Tell that to Job. absolutely righteous, every last fucking kid, DEAD all because G-d felt like making a little wager with the devil.
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April 8, 2020 at 9:12 AM #816293
sdduuuude
ParticipantNot a whole lot of these stories out there, which is good. This one is an eye-roller. At least the department backed out and said it was an “overreach”
Also, the guy who was arrested called the officers out for not having any protective gear on while cuffing him and for not practicing social distancing on the job – fight the power, baby !
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April 8, 2020 at 9:51 AM #816297
spdrun
ParticipantWhat’s up with the Adolf/foreskin haircut on the cop at stage left? Looks like a literal dickhead.
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April 10, 2020 at 2:35 PM #816397
FlyerInHi
GuestSome of the orders seem capricious and arbitrary. Definitely not lawful.
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April 10, 2020 at 5:59 PM #816400
gogogosandiego
ParticipantPeople are sick, people are dying, far more so than usual. Our governments are enacting common sense limitations and guidelines to keep more people from getting sick and dying while also allowing first responders and medical professionals to do their jobs w/o being overwhelmed.
Guess what? It’s working!
If it’s not followed voluntarily then it eventually will be enforced.
Guess which kind of people will cause it to be enforced? The ones who get my first paragraph or the ones worried about “tyranny”.
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April 10, 2020 at 7:09 PM #816401Participant
[quote=gogogosandiego]People are sick, people are dying, far more so than usual. Our governments are enacting common sense limitations and guidelines to keep more people from getting sick and dying while also allowing first responders and medical professionals to do their jobs w/o being overwhelmed.
Guess what? It’s working!
If it’s not followed voluntarily then it eventually will be enforced.
Guess which kind of people will cause it to be enforced? The ones who get my first paragraph or the ones worried about “tyranny”.[/quote]
FYI – the rights protected by the constitution are “unalienable.” That does not mean “you give them up when the government feels like you are in danger”
Just because it is “working” doesn’t mean it is constitutional.
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April 10, 2020 at 8:38 PM #816402Participant
LOL. What does the Bill of Right says about yelling fire in a crowded theatre or the fact that you need a government issued permit before you can “assemble” in certain places?
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April 10, 2020 at 11:39 PM #816405Participant
[quote=gogogosandiego]LOL. What does the Bill of Right says about yelling fire in a crowded theatre [/quote]
The bill of rights does not prohibit a theater proprietor from making rules about the behavior of its customers on his or her own property.
[quote=gogogosandiego]… that you need a government issued permit before you can “assemble” in certain places?[/quote]
Church is not one of those places.
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April 11, 2020 at 8:33 AM #816407Participant
Theater owners and churches have nothing to do with this.
I posted 2 examples where the government has determined that there are limitations on First Amendment Rights.
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April 11, 2020 at 12:22 PM #816411Participant
[quote=gogogosandiego]Theater owners and churches have nothing to do with this.
I posted 2 examples where the government has determined that there are limitations on First Amendment Rights.[/quote]
No, you didn’t. First ammendment rights don’t extend to how private property owners treat people on their own property. The government must follow the first ammendment at all times. Private property owners can restrict speech and behavior all they want on their own property.
So I agree, theater owners and churches have nothing to do with this, yet those are the examples you cited.
Yelling fire in a crowded theater is a violation of the property owner’s rights to maintain their theater the way they want.
Government does not require licenses for people to assemble on private property, especially church property.
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April 11, 2020 at 1:40 PM #816412Participant
[quote=sdduuuude][quote=gogogosandiego]Theater owners and churches have nothing to do with this.
I posted 2 examples where the government has determined that there are limitations on First Amendment Rights.[/quote]
No, you didn’t. First ammendment rights don’t extend to how private property owners treat people on their own property. The government must follow the first ammendment at all times. Private property owners can restrict speech and behavior all they want on their own property.
So I agree, theater owners and churches have nothing to do with this, yet those are the examples you cited.
Yelling fire in a crowded theater is a violation of the property owner’s rights to maintain their theater the way they want.
Government does not require licenses for people to assemble on private property, especially church property.[/quote]
1st am. Has limitations including clear and present danger.
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April 11, 2020 at 1:54 PM #816413Participant
Anyway, most people, including and esp. The dumbshit president, are like this guy when it comes to the us constitution
https://www.theonion.com/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-consti-1819571149
I would say if you have not read at least 100 us supreme court cases analyzing constitutional issues and discussed them in depth with a legal scholar, your opinion on the constitution is worthless.
I’ve read a lot more than that and I’d say my opinion is also worthless.
And the more strong or certain the opinion is, the more worthless it is, for sure.
https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/criminal/the-right-to-gather-has-some-restrictions.html
And if the govt cant restrict anything you do on your “private property”, try turning your abode into a strip club.
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April 11, 2020 at 4:35 PM #816417Participant
[quote=scaredyclassic]And if the govt cant restrict anything you do on your “private property”, try turning your abode into a strip club.[/quote]
You missed my point. My point was that the property owner can restrict behavior on their own property to a greater extent that the government can restrict behavior – because the bill of rights does not apply to private citizens.
From your own post:
https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/criminal/the-right-to-gather-has-some-restrictions.html“Because the First Amendment applies only to government actions or laws that violate rights, private property owners are generally free to keep groups from protesting or gathering on their property.” Thisis one reason why YFIACT is not covered by the bill of rights.
Another is that, YFINACT violates the “peaceably” restriction. So, that is not an example where the government has violated the bill of rights.
If Amazon takes a book off their website they are not violating the author’s right of free speech as protected by the bill of rights.
With the strip club – Now you’ve gone all the way into zoning laws. Unconstitutional ? To me, probably but I am serious about my freedom.
But arresting people peaceably assembling in a private religious institution? That seems like a definite violation. How can it not be, oh great reader of constitutional cases ?
And to gogogosandiego, show me an example of where the Government has restricted a peaceful assembly at a church, ever, and not been shot down. Don’t show me a situation where they require permits for assembly on public property or prosecution of non-peaceful behavior such as YFIACT.
By the way, are Onion articles ever real ? I thought they were all made up.
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April 11, 2020 at 5:01 PM #816420Participant
Tomorrow in KY when idiots go to Church and don’t maintain social distancing etc their license plate # will be written down and they will be required to self quarantine for 14 days.
Should get fun if they don’t.
Regardless, none of this is tyranny.
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April 11, 2020 at 5:30 PM #816422Participant
[quote=gogogosandiego]Tomorrow in KY when idiots go to Church and don’t maintain social distancing etc their license plate # will be written down and they will be required to self quarantine for 14 days. [/quote]
That actually makes perfect sense to me.
Arresting the minister does not, nor does arresting a dude for playing baseball in an empty park with his daughter.
Overall, I also think it is not tyranny. But, I have definitely been on watch for cases where it starts to be and the case in Florida is the only one, to me, that seems really bad.
In the end I think all of this curve-flattening is voluntary and government officials, while “issuing orders” know it and are behaving as such – not taking extreme measures to instill martial law.
Except for the odd toilet-licker or fruit-spitter, it is an impressive display of people imposing significant inconveniences on themselves to help a small portion of the world that is at-risk.
For now I think everyone “gets it.” When it gets to a point – as it will in San Diego soon – where people feel like it is not necessary and the governor keeps those orders open, it could get interesting.
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May 10, 2020 at 6:34 PM #817150
svelteParticipant[quote=sdduuuude][quote=gogogosandiego]Tomorrow in KY when idiots go to Church and don’t maintain social distancing etc their license plate # will be written down and they will be required to self quarantine for 14 days. [/quote]
That actually makes perfect sense to me.
Arresting the minister does not…[/quote]
Ruled legal back in 1918 by an appellate court:
[img_assist|nid=27080|title=1918 Appellate Court Ruling on Spanish Flu Restrictions|desc=|link=node|align=center|width=255|height=600]
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April 11, 2020 at 5:55 PM #816421Participant
All I’m saying is that there are always exceptions to rules, and that the meaning of the constitution ultimately isnt what you or what I or the Congress or the Senate or the president thinks it should be, but what the us supreme court says it is.
Even if the supreme court opinion is idiotic, or disingenuous, or some Scalia Jedi level bullshit, by the very nature of the rules of the game, ever since Marbury v. Madison, the court opinion defines what the constitution means.
Not what the plain text says. What the court says it means.
I dont know much more than you, except that at least I’m aware I dont know.
I would never say, HOW COULD IT NOT VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTION without doing a few dozen hours of research reading cases.
For instance…
It would SEEM like you couldnt round up members of one ethnic group and lock them up without running afoul of the constitution, right?
That’s gotta violate a whole bunch of stuff in the constitution.
I mean, HOW COULD IT NOT violate the constit.? Definitely doesnt sound kosher.
Well, read Korematsu v. United States, 323 U.S. 214 (1944).
i think it’s still good [meaning not overruled, not morally good] law.
The govt has in the past, and may permissibly tomorrow,
round up members of one ethnic group,
lock them up,,
no problem,
no constitutional violation,
under the right circs.
Even if you or I think it’s wrong, shameful, obviously unconstitutional, our opinion is irrelevant.
The constitution means what the us sup. Ct says it means. Because that is the way the legal system works.
See Marbury v. Madison.
Just because you have a copy of the 1st am and you or I have read it DOES NOT mean you or I understand anything.
I am not a Great Reader of constitutional cases.
But I am a reader.
And the meaning of the constitution is in the interpretation, not in the text of the document.
So, you may be right.
Maybe these laws restricting assembly will ultimately be found by the us supreme court to violate the constit.
But maybe not.
Personally, I have no fucking idea what the supreme court will do anymore.
Definitely do not bet $$ on any outcome as a sure thing.
And I dont care how serious you are about “freedom”, zoning laws are definitely constitutional. That’s well settled.
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April 12, 2020 at 11:51 AM #816429
outtamojo
Participant[quote=gogogosandiego]Tomorrow in KY when idiots go to Church and don’t maintain social distancing etc their license plate # will be written down and they will be required to self quarantine for 14 days.
Should get fun if they don’t.
Regardless, none of this is tyranny.[/quote]
I always find it ironic that none of the major religions have anything resembling a bill of rights or protection against arbitrary judgement.
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April 12, 2020 at 8:05 PM #816436Participant
[quote=outtamojo][quote=gogogosandiego]Tomorrow in KY when idiots go to Church and don’t maintain social distancing etc their license plate # will be written down and they will be required to self quarantine for 14 days.
Should get fun if they don’t.
Regardless, none of this is tyranny.[/quote]
I always find it ironic that none of the major religions have anything resembling a bill of rights or protection against arbitrary judgement.[/quote]
No right to a jury either, just one crazy ass judge whose final judgment is final.
A judge so wacked out he killed everyone earth except for noah and buds because they were not acting ad he liked.
A judge so wacked out he tortured Job for sport over a bet with the devil.
A judge so wacked out he thought it would be best to have a child and the kill him on a cross.
Nope, i move to recuse this judge. I’m take a different one
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April 13, 2020 at 9:01 AM #816438Participant
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
The Epicurian Paradox.
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April 13, 2020 at 9:07 AM #816439Participant
[quote=outtamojo][quote=gogogosandiego]Tomorrow in KY when idiots go to Church and don’t maintain social distancing etc their license plate # will be written down and they will be required to self quarantine for 14 days.
Should get fun if they don’t.
Regardless, none of this is tyranny.[/quote]
I always find it ironic that none of the major religions have anything resembling a bill of rights or protection against arbitrary judgement.[/quote]
Interesting thought. Participation in the religion is 100% voluntary so the only thing you would be “protected” from is shame within the organization, not from any real rights violation like incarceration.
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April 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM #816441Participant
[quote=sdduuuude][quote=outtamojo][quote=gogogosandiego]Tomorrow in KY when idiots go to Church and don’t maintain social distancing etc their license plate # will be written down and they will be required to self quarantine for 14 days.
Should get fun if they don’t.
Regardless, none of this is tyranny.[/quote]
I always find it ironic that none of the major religions have anything resembling a bill of rights or protection against arbitrary judgement.[/quote]
Interesting thought. Participation in the religion is 100% voluntary so the only thing you would be “protected” from is shame within the organization, not from any real rights violation like incarceration.[/quote]
Some sects are tough to escape.
UNORTHODOX on netflix was fun.
but yeah theoretically you c as n leave anytime. Sort of.
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April 13, 2020 at 12:44 PM #816446Participant
[quote=scaredyclassic]Some sects are tough to escape[/quote]
Did you watch Leah Remini’s Scientology show ?
That was pretty infuriating to me. Worth watching. -
April 11, 2020 at 1:55 PM #816414Participant
Yelling fire in a crowded, privately owned theater can get you in trouble with the government regardless of what the owner of the theatre thinks of it.
The GOVERNMENT can require you to obtain a permit (i.e. permission – and can deny that permission) to assemble on public property like parks and streets.
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April 11, 2020 at 1:55 PM #816415Participant
[quote=sdduuuude][quote=gogogosandiego]Theater owners and churches have nothing to do with this.
I posted 2 examples where the government has determined that there are limitations on First Amendment Rights.[/quote]
No, you didn’t. First ammendment rights don’t extend to how private property owners treat people on their own property. The government must follow the first ammendment at all times. Private property owners can restrict speech and behavior all they want on their own property.
So I agree, theater owners and churches have nothing to do with this, yet those are the examples you cited.
Yelling fire in a crowded theater is a violation of the property owner’s rights to maintain their theater the way they want.
Government does not require licenses for people to assemble on private property, especially church property.[/quote]
Yelling fire in a crowded theatre is not 1st am protected, even if the property owner herself does the yelling. Jeez louise.
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April 11, 2020 at 3:54 PM #816416Participant
[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=sdduuuude][quote=gogogosandiego]Theater owners and churches have nothing to do with this.
I posted 2 examples where the government has determined that there are limitations on First Amendment Rights.[/quote]
No, you didn’t. First ammendment rights don’t extend to how private property owners treat people on their own property. The government must follow the first ammendment at all times. Private property owners can restrict speech and behavior all they want on their own property.
So I agree, theater owners and churches have nothing to do with this, yet those are the examples you cited.
Yelling fire in a crowded theater is a violation of the property owner’s rights to maintain their theater the way they want.
Government does not require licenses for people to assemble on private property, especially church property.[/quote]
Yelling fire in a crowded theatre is not 1st am protected, even if the property owner herself does the yelling. Jeez louise.[/quote]
I am agreeing with that it is not protected.
The reason it is not protected is because the offended party is not the government and the property owner can restrict this behavior. The property owner could also post a sign that says “It is OK to yell fire in this theater when it is crowded and by being here you agree that this behavior is not regulated in any way.” then it would be protected behavior, but not by the first ammendment.
Good point about the property owner yelling. I believe that is a tacit agreement between the owner and guests that he will not endanger them or disrupt their experience.
The other guy was suggesting that because the first ammendment doesn’t protect yelling fire in a crowded theater that it makes sense for the government to arrest a preacher for holding mass. I don’t see the connection.
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April 17, 2020 at 10:17 AM #816566Participant
From the other thread:
[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=outtamojo]Sounds like there will be civil unrest soon.[/quote]
Yeah. The protests are starting already.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/protests-coronavirus-stay-home-orders/index.html%5B/quote%5DThis is the conflict I was expecting.
The right to peaceably assemble and protest government action in a location where gatherings of a certain size have been forbidden.
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April 17, 2020 at 10:31 AM #816568Participant
Commander in chief telling folks to liberate their state and mentioning 2nd amendment in the same breath is just bonkers.
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April 17, 2020 at 4:01 PM #816595Participant
Trump’s army
All youse better fill out your “do not resuscitate” papers to make things easier on all of us.
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May 3, 2020 at 4:02 PM #817007
phaster
Participant[quote=outtamojo]Trump’s army
All youse better fill out your “do not resuscitate” papers to make things easier on all of us.[/quote]
seems the american bar association agrees that STATES DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO QUARANTINE POPULATIONS
sigh,… the idea of lawsuits over covid-19 social distancing, is dumb IMHO!!!
as I see things its akin to a lawsuit that says firefighters have no business telling people to get out of an area where there are conflagrations
[quote]
California’s governor declares statewide emergency over wildfires as mass evacuation continuesSANTA ROSA, Calif. — California’s governor declared a statewide emergency Sunday as hurricane-force wind fueled wildfires across Sonoma County and prompted mass evacuations in communities to the Pacific Ocean.
Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) pledged to deploy “every resource available” as authorities fought blazes on both ends of the state and weather increased the danger. Despite the efforts of several thousand firefighters and volunteers, and millions of people enduring forced blackouts to minimize the risk of new blazes,…
…The mandatory evacuations affected nearly 180,000 people. About 54,000 acres already have been torched, 94 structures destroyed and State Route 128 turned into a hellish gantlet. And 80,000 structures remain under threat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_GRAl7ga7c
just as firefighters tell people an area is unsafe where an inferno is raging, people should listen to medical experts who have years of experience fighting off infections,… the idea in both cases to to save lives
bottom line,… its best to ignore quack advice from a TV reality celebrity who found a political following
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May 3, 2020 at 5:14 PM #817008Participant
Saw Blue Lives Matter trending on Twitter this morning- footage of protesters getting in law officer’s faces and even pushing them. Time to break out the tear gas police dogs cattle prods and invite those people to leave the country if they don’t like it here.
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April 17, 2020 at 5:41 PM #816604Participant
[quote=sdduuuude]From the other thread:
[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=outtamojo]Sounds like there will be civil unrest soon.[/quote]
Yeah. The protests are starting already.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/protests-coronavirus-stay-home-orders/index.html%5B/quote%5DThis is the conflict I was expecting.
The right to peaceably assemble and protest government action in a location where gatherings of a certain size have been forbidden.[/quote]
Although, some of these seem like Trump-related childishness, not an honest protest where someone is really bothered or put out by the orders.
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April 23, 2020 at 3:12 PM #816805Guest
Maybe reopen and let the chips fall where they may. Let the free markets decide.
That’s this the mayor of Las Vegas says. Full interview:-
April 23, 2020 at 4:13 PM #816807
The-Shoveler
ParticipantI don’t know she kind of has a point, I guess we will see what happens in Georgia
Shut downs (and the poverty they cause) likely to kill more world wide than the virus would.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/04/106…
Could have achieved close to same result with a lot less drastic measures IMO.
Some of Europe, New Zealand already starting to re-open.
I hope I am wrong, but I fear it will be a whole lot harder to re-start the economy than it was to stop it.
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April 23, 2020 at 5:12 PM #816808Participant
Oh yeah its gonna be a larger problem than the real estate crash imo. I maintain suspicion and superstition led by internet pictures of body bags piled up would have cut down commerce almost as much as a formal governor-led shutdown.
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April 23, 2020 at 5:13 PM #816809Guest
I am beginning to agree with you shoveler. But that’s because our government has been grossly incompetent.
However, given what we know now, there would have been many more deaths. How many deaths are tolerable to the public?South Korea didn’t do a lockdown and they did a lot better.
If we reopen now, the sacrifices of the last month might be in vain. Governments cannot afford a resurgence of infections and deaths so they will extend the lockdown.
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April 23, 2020 at 5:31 PM #816810Participant
[quote=FlyerInHi] given what we know now, there would have been many more deaths. How many deaths are tolerable to the public?
[/quote]I think it would not have been much worse IMO, had we just isolated the vulnerable.
Time will tell but I think a much much larger percentage of the population has Anti-bodies than we think.
I find it really hard to believe that this spread around the world in a month and only infected less than 2% of the population.
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April 23, 2020 at 5:54 PM #816811Guest
Assuming you’re right, shoveler., now that we are on lockdown, when we reopen the economy, what type of resurgence would the public accept?
Because we have already taken drastic measures, new deaths will be seen as failures by the public. It’s our fault for not having a plan for contact tracing and testing, or the ability ramp up in time. People are really scared now and unless they can get tested, and see their friends and family tested, they would not feel safe.
Example, would you have your cleaning lady or babysitter come to your house? You don’t even know if she has health insurance. The vulnerabilities of our system are becoming all apparent in a pandemic.
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April 23, 2020 at 6:00 PM #816812Participant
Maybe, But I think the hardest part will be getting people used to the Idea of going back to work LOL.
It is really hard to find people willing to work for less than maybe $25 or $30 dollars an hour right now.
This is the main reason I think it will be very hard to start the economy again, maybe inflation will finally become a problem again.
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April 23, 2020 at 7:29 PM #816816Guest
Sweden has taken a light approach.
But even so, can we backtrack after the lockdown?Cato institute interview.
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April 24, 2020 at 7:11 AM #816824Participant
IMO Sweden has it right.
Coronavirus: are we underestimating how many people have had it? Sweden thinks so
https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-underestimating-many-people-had-161846347.html
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April 30, 2020 at 6:59 AM #816945Participant
Not sure how much longer they can suppress this sentiment
Elon Musk’s F-bomb rant against lockdowns reflects ‘growing sentiment,’ says Dr. Scott Gottlieb
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April 30, 2020 at 7:18 AM #816946Participant
[quote=The-Shoveler]Not sure how much longer they can suppress this sentiment
Elon Musk’s F-bomb rant against lockdowns reflects ‘growing sentiment,’ says Dr. Scott Gottlieb[/quote]
Money>life. I get it. Its just funny, with all the abortion hysterics on the right.
We will definitely be the winner for most dead at the end of it.
Americans will think, eh, it was the old and the weak, back home in heaven. But these fetuses. They had so much potential.
Youth culture gone mad. I love you little embryo. Too bad so sad, gramps.
How many life-years left for the decrepit overweight boomers? Not many, we think, dreaming of stock market highs. We are all death panelists now.
As we should be. Life is not sacred. Can we all at least agree on that?
We make that clear with foreigners lives, and the old, weak, the minority communities, anyone who has no insurance, is just a bag of water and chemicals.
the elderly suicide in MIDSOMMAR. If you’ve seen that movie. Scary. Great horror movie. Is what we are.
A culture of youth, sex, death, war, fear, force imprisonment and winner take all.
I often feel I hate pretty much the whole world.
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April 30, 2020 at 12:27 PM #816966Guest
[quote=scaredyclassic]
Money>life. I get it. Its just funny, with all the abortion hysterics on the right.
We will definitely be the winner for most dead at the end of it.
Americans will think, eh, it was the old and the weak, back home in heaven. But these fetuses. They had so much potential.
Youth culture gone mad. I love you little embryo. Too bad so sad, gramps.
How many life-years left for the decrepit overweight boomers? Not many, we think, dreaming of stock market highs. We are all death panelists now.
As we should be. Life is not sacred. Can we all at least agree on that?
We make that clear with foreigners lives, and the old, weak, the minority communities, anyone who has no insurance, is just a bag of water and chemicals.
the elderly suicide in MIDSOMMAR. If you’ve seen that movie. Scary. Great horror movie. Is what we are.
A culture of youth, sex, death, war, fear, force imprisonment and winner take all.
I often feel I hate pretty much the whole world.[/quote]
More beautiful writing!
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April 30, 2020 at 7:18 AM #816947Participant
It is “NOT” a binary thing,
We could have achieved much the same result with much less drastic measures.
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April 30, 2020 at 7:20 AM #816948Participant
[quote=The-Shoveler]It is “NOT” a binary thing,
We could have achieved much the same result with much less drastic measures.[/quote]
Most dead in the world, but with a better quarter this year?
I’m not saying its binary, money OR life. Both are important.
But money is more important.
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April 30, 2020 at 7:22 AM #816949Participant
The Lock downs will result in more deaths than the virus unchecked would around the world.
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April 30, 2020 at 7:24 AM #816950Participant
[quote=The-Shoveler]The Lock downs will result in more deaths than the virus unchecked would around the world.[/quote]
And all preventable, with the social and political will
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April 30, 2020 at 7:25 AM #816951Participant
I’m not claiming to be better. I value money more than life.
Hell, with my large life insurance policy I’m practically life neutral nowadays.
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April 30, 2020 at 7:54 AM #816952Participant
Well, COVID spread seems to be declining in California, but Prettyboy Newsom decided to close beaches and parks anyway. I understand the need to close indoor places and crowded outdoor venues like stadiums, but thi is just Newsom being drunk on power and/or bowing to pressure from alarmist do-gooders.
“What we’re doing is working, but let’s kick people when they’re down.” Ugh.
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April 30, 2020 at 9:12 AM #816955Participant
He closed the beaches because 1000’s of people are using them if/when opened and not following the guidelines. Additionally there are 100’s of idiots using the beach areas as a staging area for “protests”.
In SD people from all over the county come to the beaches if/when open. It’s goes against the spirit of the stay home orders.
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April 30, 2020 at 9:31 AM #816957Participant
What if they did it by license #? Restrict non-resident parking in all beach parking lots and within 10 blocks of any public beach. Plates ending with even numbers get to use beaches on even-numbered days of the month, odd numbers on odd days. Or change it to the last digit of the plate has to match the last digit of the day of the month if they’re still crowded.
Yeah, the protestors are idiots — but they’re not going away any time soon if the state keeps creating restrictions that aren’t based on good science. California beaches on a bad day are still probably less packed than your average line of Karens outside of a Home Depot garden section.
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April 30, 2020 at 9:49 AM #816961Participant
It gets complicated. Some beaches are county, some are individual town beaches. Some are state. My friend is a lifeguard. He was telling me about open beaches with closed parking lots which means people were parking all over the streets. Fights were breaking out over parking.
Some of the beach areas here are known as being a hangout for people from East County, Others attract gangbangers (or at least want-to-be gangbangers) from the South County. Both groups were out in force this past weekend per my friend.
There was a protest in PB where a good chunk of the people were from the Temecula area. The “news” about these protests are circulating on social media and attracting any and all nutjobs from the region to descend on the beach.
Opening beaches in the middle of stay at home guidance was a disaster waiting to happen.
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April 30, 2020 at 9:17 AM #816956Participant
There is no evidence of this. Pure reckless speculation.
Edit: in response to “the shutdown will cause more deaths than the unchecked virus”.
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April 30, 2020 at 9:40 AM #816958Participant
[quote=gogogosandiego]There is no evidence of this. Pure reckless speculation.
Edit: in response to “the shutdown will cause more deaths than the unchecked virus”.[/quote]
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/africa/coronavirus-famine-un-warning-intl/index.html
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April 30, 2020 at 9:43 AM #816959Participant
You’re making my point.The shutdown isn’t causing any of that.
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April 30, 2020 at 9:49 AM #816960
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April 30, 2020 at 9:53 AM #816962
utcsox
Participant[quote=The-Shoveler]The Lock downs will result in more deaths than the virus unchecked would around the world.[/quote]
Did the Corona virus write this?
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April 30, 2020 at 8:52 AM #816953
Coronita
ParticipantI think newsom did the right thing closing the beaches actually. we aren’t in decline yet and better safe than sorry rather than revisiting this isue again in July. Not like much businesses are depending on the beaches right now anyway. and if people want to exercise the can walk or run in the park.
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April 30, 2020 at 9:11 AM #816954Participant
Governor Prettyboy ordered parks closed, too. Here’s the question: California’s medical system isn’t overwhelmed, so what’s the goal here? Complete eradication? Even Newsom admits that it’s unlikely.
Beaches and parks being open shouldn’t be about businesses. It should be about people being able to enjoy themselves as much as possible, even during a time of crisis. Also, outside of very packed outdoor settings like stadiums, outdoor transmission has been deemed unlikely. When was the last time that you’ve seen groups of people within 6′ of each other on a beach? Groups usually have at least one person’s height between them.
Sweden has the right idea — accept some deaths as the price of not robbing everyone of their civil liberties, but have common-sense restrictions in place (high schools closed, no gatherings > 50 people, encourage WFH even if it’s not explicitly mandated).
Why are quality of human life and psychological health being discounted, and only mere length of life is being considered?
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April 30, 2020 at 12:34 PM #816967Guest
[quote=spdrun]Governor Prettyboy ordered parks closed, too. Here’s the question: California’s medical system isn’t overwhelmed, so what’s the goal here? Complete eradication? Even Newsom admits that it’s unlikely.
Beaches and parks being open shouldn’t be about businesses. It should be about people being able to enjoy themselves as much as possible, even during a time of crisis. Also, outside of very packed outdoor settings like stadiums, outdoor transmission has been deemed unlikely. When was the last time that you’ve seen groups of people within 6′ of each other on a beach? Groups usually have at least one person’s height between them.
Sweden has the right idea — accept some deaths as the price of not robbing everyone of their civil liberties, but have common-sense restrictions in place (high schools closed, no gatherings > 50 people, encourage WFH even if it’s not explicitly mandated).
Why are quality of human life and psychological health being discounted, and only mere length of life is being considered?[/quote]
Prettyboy is better than Uglyboy.
We are gonna end up like Sweden but we’re taking the long way to get there. And in the process we’ll be poorer.
As Americans, we can’t accept that we don’t have the resources (intelligence, management skills and logistics) to pull off a beautiful suppression operation like China or Korea.
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April 30, 2020 at 9:57 AM #816963Participant
“It is a hammer blow for millions more who can only eat if they earn a wage,” he added.
“Lockdowns and global economic recession have already decimated their nest eggs.
It only takes one more shock — like Covid-19 — to push them over the edge.”-
April 30, 2020 at 11:43 AM #816964Participant
[quote=The-Shoveler]https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/coronavirus-biblical-famines-could-double-global-hunger-un-warns.html
“It is a hammer blow for millions more who can only eat if they earn a wage,” he added.
“Lockdowns and global economic recession have already decimated their nest eggs.
It only takes one more shock — like Covid-19 — to push them over the edge.”[/quote]We can share food.
Also…you can go a really long time not eating much.
Could we share …nest eggs
Scrambled nest eggs.
Never mind.
Its…unthinkable.
yes, the bodies will inevitably stack up either way, higher and
higher still if we do not appease the gods of mammon
Read your bibles, people…man earns his bread by the sweat of his brow. No lollygagging, no sharing.
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April 30, 2020 at 12:52 PM #816969svelteParticipant
May 1st.
I predict when we enter May, patience will start wearing thin.
The Guv and the Prez better give us measurable, objective criteria for how we move on to the next stages.
Defining the stages was a great first step.
Now we need details on how we know when it is time to transition to each step.
They only have a few more days before attitudes will start changing drastically.
Get with it, boys. Voters are watching.
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April 30, 2020 at 3:59 PM #816972Participant
[quote=svelte]May 1st.
I predict when we enter May, patience will start wearing thin.
The Guv and the Prez better give us measurable, objective criteria for how we move on to the next stages.
Defining the stages was a great first step.
Now we need details on how we know when it is time to transition to each step.
They only have a few more days before attitudes will start changing drastically.
Get with it, boys. Voters are watching.[/quote]
Patience is way thin I agree. Our past never seemed so relevant to what has gone on in Oregon and now in Michigan. Such a contrast : (
https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act-
May 1, 2020 at 12:00 PM #816982Guest
[quote=outtamojo]Patience is way thin I agree. Our past never seemed so relevant to what has gone on in Oregon and now in Michigan. Such a contrast : (
https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-actDouble standards are nothing new in America.
Those white gun toting protesters represent the “real America”, so they get a pass. -
May 1, 2020 at 7:32 PM #816993Participant
[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=outtamojo]Patience is way thin I agree. Our past never seemed so relevant to what has gone on in Oregon and now in Michigan. Such a contrast : (
https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-actDouble standards are nothing new in America.
Those white gun toting protesters represent the “real America”, so they get a pass.[/quote]As if on cue the orange one says these are very fine people. Whatever happened to peaceful unarmed kneeling…
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May 1, 2020 at 8:29 PM #816994Participant
[quote=outtamojo][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=outtamojo]Patience is way thin I agree. Our past never seemed so relevant to what has gone on in Oregon and now in Michigan. Such a contrast : (
https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-actDouble standards are nothing new in America.
Those white gun toting protesters represent the “real America”, so they get a pass.[/quote]As if on cue the orange one says these are very fine people. Whatever happened to peaceful unarmed kneeling…[/quote]
They should try that outside the white house. Security’s tighter.
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May 2, 2020 at 11:09 AM #816995Guest
It’s funny that the demonstrators are talking inspiration from Sweden, a freedom-killing, “socialist” country. Those same people were going berserk over Ebola some years ago.
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May 3, 2020 at 10:44 AM #817003Participant
Even Newsom is now saying herd immunity is at least part of Goal.
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May 3, 2020 at 3:19 PM #817006Participant
[quote=The-Shoveler]Even Newsom is now saying herd immunity is at least part of Goal.[/quote]
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/01/opinion/sunday/coronavirus-herd-immunity.html
Herd immunity means a lot of dead people 1st.
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May 3, 2020 at 5:16 PM #817009Participant
The article about “herd immunity” is oversimplifying about herd immunity being “when things start to slow down.” Even 20% immunity will likely slow down an epidemic … herd immunity is when growth is linear (vs exponential), ASSUMING NO OTHER MEASURES. The point is that, as more people gain immunity, the measures required to keep an epidemic in check gradually decrease.
“Herd immunity” needing a majority of the population also makes other assumptions, like that everyone is equally susceptible. Perhaps 50% of people can’t catch COVID due to some genetic difference or due to cross-immunity with other coronaviridae. This would explain the low household secondary attack rate — only about 15-25% of people sharing a home with a COVID case contract it themselves.
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April 30, 2020 at 4:54 PM #816973Guest
Is Sweden Doing It Right?
The Swedes aren’t battling the coronavirus with broad lockdowns.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/opinion/coronavirus-sweden.html
Are we going to adapt to the coronavirus — by design — the way Sweden is attempting to do — or are we going to go the same direction as Sweden — by messy default — or are we just going to say “the hell with lockdowns” and go 50 different ways? -
May 1, 2020 at 5:31 PM #816990Guest
Protests in California.
Lots of Trump signs. I didn’t see any Biden signs.-
May 1, 2020 at 5:38 PM #816991Participant
Well…
“A network of right-leaning individuals and groups, aided by nimble online outfits, has helped incubate the fervor erupting in state capitals across the country. The activism is often organic and the frustration deeply felt, but it is also being amplified, and in some cases coordinated, by longtime conservative activists, whose robust operations were initially set up with help from Republican megadonors.”
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May 4, 2020 at 12:23 PM #817034Guest
Interesting article on Islamic face covering.
Targeting muslim women, some countries have banned face covering. And in USA, people have argued that face covering is unsafe and unamerican.
What’s the difference between Islamic face cover and what we see today? That’s making me think….We are all niqabis now: Coronavirus masks reveal hypocrisy of face covering bans
https://theconversation.com/we-are-all-niqabis-now-coronavirus-masks-reveal-hypocrisy-of-face-covering-bans-136030 -
May 10, 2020 at 3:05 AM #817127Guest
The churches in Kentucky won a legal victory.
I don’t support the church gatherings, but the law is the law.. Let them gather if they wish.https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/09/kentucky-court-halts-ban-on-church-gatherings-245960
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May 10, 2020 at 9:16 AM #817132Participant
[quote=FlyerInHi]The churches in Kentucky won a legal victory.
I don’t support the church gatherings, but the law is the law.. Let them gather if they wish.Morons.
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May 10, 2020 at 10:07 AM #817135
an
Participant[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=FlyerInHi]The churches in Kentucky won a legal victory.
I don’t support the church gatherings, but the law is the law.. Let them gather if they wish.Morons.[/quote]
Darwin -
May 10, 2020 at 10:55 AM #817136Guest
[quote=an][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=FlyerInHi]The churches in Kentucky won a legal victory.
I don’t support the church gatherings, but the law is the law.. Let them gather if they wish.https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/09/kentucky-court-halts-ban-on-church-gatherings-245960
[/quote]Morons.[/quote]
Darwin[/quote]If Darwin is the way to go, then why have lockdowns at all?
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May 10, 2020 at 11:52 AM #817139Participant
Yes and why should religion get special treatment? If souplantation can accommodate health guidelines shouldn’t they be able to open too?
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May 10, 2020 at 1:41 PM #817141Participant
Constitution.
The Buddhists down at deerpark shut down WAYYY ahead of the curve. I recall being slightly incredulous and irtitated.
But they’re smart. Makes me like them more.
Because Buddhists arent stuck to kind of dumb doctrine and ate more practice than belief, they are more flexible to new data. It’s ok the world is old because they cleverly didnt commit to a provably wrong timeline.
Judaism, christianity, ugh.
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May 17, 2020 at 9:22 PM #817353Participant
[quote=outtamojo]Yes and why should religion get special treatment? If souplantation can accommodate health guidelines shouldn’t they be able to open too?[/quote]
One thing we do know is that the virus has very little regard of our precious religious freedom. Sure you can pack as many conservative justices in as many courts as you can, but the virus is not going to respect your rights to workship without the fear of contracting the deadly disease.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/17/us/covid-19-mothers-day-church-exposure/index.html
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May 18, 2020 at 9:50 AM #817358Guest
[quote=utcsox]One thing we do know is that the virus has very little regard of our precious religious freedom. Sure you can pack as many conservative justices in as many courts as you can, but the virus is not going to respect your rights to workship without the fear of contracting the deadly disease.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/17/us/covid-19-mothers-day-church-exposure/index.html
[/quote]Freedom ain’t free
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May 17, 2020 at 1:35 PM #817351Guest
The courts seem to be siding with the protesters.
One problem that I have with the executive stay at home orders is that the full text of the orders are not widely disseminated. If we are a country laws, then we should be fully transparent. -
May 20, 2020 at 7:26 AM #817433Guest
‘I woke up in a free country’ — Costco shopper gets bounced from store after refusing to wear a mask
https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/4F1BD0DC-9A25-11EA-8E0F-D464E6377B06
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