Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › CA Revenue comes in 6.5% lower than expected (and some common sense solutions)
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November 13, 2011 at 3:15 PM #732853November 13, 2011 at 3:39 PM #732855bearishgurlParticipant
Lol, Domo, I can’t imagine you would give up a meager pension that you yourself fed into thru payroll deductions after 23 years of toiling in “the system” for low pay.
You stated yourself that you believe you make more $$ working for a private enterprise. However, if you have never applied to any government position, you do not actually know if you are “hiring material.” Until your lengthy application is processed, you take (and pass) the required written exam (if applic), you interview (sometimes multiple times with one agency) and ALL your background checks are run (and the govm’t employer is satisfied with “who you are”), you don’t even know IF you can even obtain a position with govm’t!
Until such time as you go thru the above described process, you have no idea if you have or would have had the “choice” of a public or private “career.”
November 13, 2011 at 3:45 PM #732856gandalfParticipantbearishgurl,
The issue with EconProf isn’t public employees and benefits.
The issue is criticizing public employees and benefits when you worked in the public sector, retire early to start a second career and then collect about $15K/year for the rest of your life from those exact benefit programs.
I’ve already said, I don’t care that much. If not for Wall Street, EconProf’s $15K/year would be affordable to the state of CA. I support our educational system, and overall, I think it’s worth the cost. On this note, I was interested in EconProf’s experiences and insights as SDSU adjunct faculty and found his comments interesting.
At this point, I’m okay to leave the hypocrisy thing alone. EconProf can sift through the gap between his viewpoints and his actions. They are the definition of hypocrisy, but alas, human beings are complicated and filled with contradictions.
For what it’s worth, EconProf (of 2011) is right. The accounts of the State of California are out of balance and he may, as many others are in the process of finding out, end up having to forego those benefits involuntarily.
By orders of magnitude, the root cause of this whole problem is not average public sector employees (and their corrupt unions), but Wall Street and the financial industry.
November 13, 2011 at 3:53 PM #732857bearishgurlParticipantgandalf, who better to be in position to intelligently criticize the way the “system” is run than those who know it inside and out?
I could sit here on a stump and list criticisms, too. But what for? All the “rules” were laid out into law long ago by our lofty legislature. However, their “interpretation” is left to the individual jurisdictions.
We are all led to believe that being chosen for employment in government positions is based upon a “merit system.” Except in the Federal Government (who has multiple-agency oversight in this regard), I have NEVER known govm’t “merit systems” to exist in practice. The laws are written with many loopholes for Agency Heads to navigate to get exactly WHO they want for positions (test score, experience or “merit” be damned).
He’s just reiterating his experience working in a politically-based “system,” here. You have the choice of taking his word for it or going thru the arduous process of finding out for yourselves! All other (obviously ignorant) “hypocrite” jabs are coming from “the mouths of babes” :=]
November 13, 2011 at 4:07 PM #732858gandalfParticipantI don’t understand.
It’s pot calling kettle black to demonize public employee pensions and benefits when you’re a public employee collecting pension and benefits.
But it’s not that big a deal.
Overall, my main issue is with GOP faux-conservatives who demonize public employee unions and pensions as causing the economic malaise.
Responsibility for this mess starts with Wall Street executives and the financial industry, assisted by the Fed, rating agencies and corrupt politicians who engineered deregulation, fraud and loose credit. Bigger problem than federal/state/muni pensions by orders of magnitude.
November 13, 2011 at 4:13 PM #732859bearishgurlParticipant[quote=gandalf] . . . Responsibility for this mess starts with Wall Street executives and the financial industry, assisted by the Fed, rating agencies and corrupt politicians who engineered deregulation, fraud and loose credit. Bigger problem than federal/state/muni pensions by orders of magnitude.[/quote]
Completely agree, gandalf. Public pension funds were, for the most part, solvent until their respective Boards began investing it in Wall-Street-created vehicles that “promised” higher returns but were not, in any way shape or form appropriate or in our best interest.
FWIW, due to its small size, I chose to defer my pension (let it grow a bit more) before I apply for it. I don’t currently live off my “pension” OR collect “retiree health benefits.”
November 13, 2011 at 4:15 PM #732860bearishgurlParticipantAnd personally, I don’t think I’d classify either EconProf or myself as “faux conservatives” (or any kind of “conservative” for that matter), lol.
Correct me if I have this wrong, EconProf :=]
November 13, 2011 at 4:33 PM #732861anParticipant[quote=DomoArigato]Of course I hate the finance industry. Every right-thinking, patriotic American hates the finance industry.
I keep all my 401(k) money in a passively-managed index fund which minimizes the amount of my money that goes to the finance industry. I use credit unions, not banks. I donate to OccupyWallStreet as well as media organizations like the Real News Network which help to expose crimes committed by those in the finance industry. I’m not working for the government because I believe I can make more in private industry.
If every American did what I do, Government Sachs, JP Morgan, Bank of America, and all of the other TBTF organizations would not exist.
My actions are consistent with my words and beliefs. Contrast my actions and words with those of EconProf who continues to accept his monthly pension checks while fighting to eliminate government pensions for current government employees. EconProf’s actions are not consistent with his words. If he were truly concerned about the California government deficit, he would reject his pension so as to help reduce the California state deficit.[/quote]
As you just stated, passively-managed index fund does own stocks of financial industry. So, you’re feeding the beast.You donate to OWS, which mean you’re against the 1%, right? Aren’t you working for the 1%? Aren’t you contributing to making that 1% richer?
AFAIK, we all operate under certain level of hypocrisy. Different people live under different level of hypocrisy, but to say you’re living free of hypocrisy is a very tall order and is quite hard to believe. I don’t know if anyone that’s righteous enough to give up free money. A long the same line of Buffett asking to be taxed more, but then go around and taking all sort of deduction and not sending him more of his money to the IRS.
November 13, 2011 at 6:37 PM #732862DomoArigatoParticipant[quote=AN] I don’t know if anyone that’s righteous enough to give up free money. [/quote]
That’s probably because you only hang out with right-wingers. The right-wing has somehow come to equate greed with patriotism.
The liberals that I hang out with give generously of their time and money to causes they believe in. Liberals believe in old-fashioned patriotism which involves sacrificing for one’s country.
November 13, 2011 at 6:49 PM #732863utcsoxParticipant[quote=AN][quote=DomoArigato]Of course I hate the finance industry. Every right-thinking, patriotic American hates the finance industry.
I keep all my 401(k) money in a passively-managed index fund which minimizes the amount of my money that goes to the finance industry. I use credit unions, not banks. I donate to OccupyWallStreet as well as media organizations like the Real News Network which help to expose crimes committed by those in the finance industry. I’m not working for the government because I believe I can make more in private industry.
If every American did what I do, Government Sachs, JP Morgan, Bank of America, and all of the other TBTF organizations would not exist.
My actions are consistent with my words and beliefs. Contrast my actions and words with those of EconProf who continues to accept his monthly pension checks while fighting to eliminate government pensions for current government employees. EconProf’s actions are not consistent with his words. If he were truly concerned about the California government deficit, he would reject his pension so as to help reduce the California state deficit.[/quote]
As you just stated, passively-managed index fund does own stocks of financial industry. So, you’re feeding the beast.You donate to OWS, which mean you’re against the 1%, right? Aren’t you working for the 1%? Aren’t you contributing to making that 1% richer?
AFAIK, we all operate under certain level of hypocrisy. Different people live under different level of hypocrisy, but to say you’re living free of hypocrisy is a very tall order and is quite hard to believe. I don’t know if anyone that’s righteous enough to give up free money. A long the same line of Buffett asking to be taxed more, but then go around and taking all sort of deduction and not sending him more of his money to the IRS.[/quote]
Just want to point out the level of hypocrisy that EconProf exhibit is very typical among the so-called conservative, free market folks. And to see the same idealogues come out and somehow justify this type of behavior is utterly disgusting. Too bad we can’t test if you are intellectual dishonest and morally bankrupt in a test. End rant.
November 13, 2011 at 7:47 PM #732864anParticipant[quote=DomoArigato]That’s probably because you only hang out with right-wingers. The right-wing has somehow come to equate greed with patriotism.
The liberals that I hang out with give generously of their time and money to causes they believe in. Liberals believe in old-fashioned patriotism which involves sacrificing for one’s country.[/quote]
I know and talk to various different political affiliation. Greed runs deep in all type. BTW, I didn’t mention anything about patriotism. Greed is part of human nature, just like lust, compassion, hate, etc.Since you brought up generosity, here are some data for you to digest: http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2005/11/generosity_inde.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/12/who_gives_to_charity.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.htmlTalking about sacrificing for one’s country, I thought the majority of military personnel vote Republican? Here’s the definition of patriotism: devoted love, support, and defense of one’s country; national loyalty. According to this definition, sounds like military personnel are the most patriotic.
So, why are you working for those greedy 1% vs working for the people and getting paid less? Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.
November 13, 2011 at 7:49 PM #732865anParticipant[quote=utcsox]Just want to point out the level of hypocrisy that EconProf exhibit is very typical among the so-called conservative, free market folks. And to see the same idealogues come out and somehow justify this type of behavior is utterly disgusting. Too bad we can’t test if you are intellectual dishonest and morally bankrupt in a test. End rant.[/quote]
I see plenty of hypocrisies with environmentalists too, especially those who drive cars and live in large houses.November 13, 2011 at 8:20 PM #732866RhettParticipant[quote=AN][quote=DomoArigato]That’s probably because you only hang out with right-wingers.[/quote]
I know and talk to various different political affiliation.[/quote]From what I can tell, a good number of the parents at the school where he sends his child are somewhat left of Donna Frye on the PolyScale.
November 13, 2011 at 9:15 PM #732867patbParticipantwhy not legalize and tax marijuana?
November 13, 2011 at 9:17 PM #732868anParticipant[quote=patb]why not legalize and tax marijuana[/quote]
Exactly, why not? I’m all for legalizing them all. -
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