Another short steal

[SD Realtor]

Well I cannot comment on whether it was fraud or not. The listing history details are as follows.

Initial list price was 850k and then reduced to 750k but not until after the property was moved to contingent status. Listing agent was not the selling agent BUT the selling agent was within the same company, MAXUM Realty. The remarks also indicate the appraisal came out to 760k and that the second lender required a cash contribution including fees not paid for by the first lender. So my guess is that they paid 720k for it and threw in another 20 or 30k (maybe more maybe less) to the second lienholder at close of escrow. No appliances conveyed and the outdoor grill did not convey as well. The comments also said multiple offers were received. The financing was conventional so if you include the cash to the second and financing costs the buyer probably came in with 25 or more percent down.

Hard to say this is a case of fraud. The appraisal came in at 760k. Yes there was cash that was received that went to the second lien holder but that is on the HUD.

Now what some may claim, and this could be true, is that not all of the offers that were received were not presented to the seller. However as we have discussed MANY times, it is up to the listing agent to advise the seller to select the offer that will have the best chance of success. While there may have been higher offers, there may not have been higher offers where the buyers were willing to commit cash to the second lien holder.

This is a fundamental problem with short sales. I am not a fan of the system but there are agents that are much more adept then others with regards to getting short sales completed WITHIN THE CURRENT FRAMEWORK of how things are today. Can one argue that the first lienholder got hosed, perhaps even defrauded? Yes they probably can. Does this hurt overall comps in the neighborhood and piss off other homeowners there and even buyers who did not pursue the home aggressively? Yes.

It is what it is.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SD Realtor]…This is a fundamental problem with short sales. I am not a fan of the system but there are agents that are much more adept then others with regards to getting short sales completed WITHIN THE CURRENT FRAMEWORK of how things are today. Can one argue that the first lienholder got hosed, perhaps even defrauded? Yes they probably can. Does this hurt overall comps in the neighborhood and piss off other homeowners there and even buyers who did not pursue the home aggressively? Yes.

It is what it is.[/quote]

SDR, I still have a couple of problems with this scenario and a question.

1. An offer just “happened” to be “selected” (not the highest) which paid 100% of the commission to the listing broker, “Maxum Realty.”

2. These out-of-area lenders being asked to “take it in the shorts” are obviously dumb@sses. They don’t need to own the property in order to get their own BPO out there to properly comp the property. Instead, they are believing the delinquent seller’s listing agent’s (friend/church buddy/relative?) bogus comps that are sent with an offer which will allow their broker to double end the commission. Not necessarily the HIGHEST, but the BEST for the LISTING AGENT/BROKER and/or consisting of special out-of-escrow “perks” for his/her deadbeat sellers (who should be grateful they are even getting out of their [frequently ATM’ed to death] albatross). If the first TD holder had accepted researcher9’s offer, they may have been ABLE to satisfy the 2nd TD holder’s requirements.

Question: Are there any SOLD COMPS for the LAST 6 MONTHS which would indicate this property is worth $200k+ more? In other words, did the appraiser use the right sold comps here?

If I was looking in a very specific area to buy for as long as researcher9 has and I had at least a 20% downpayment and kept getting ignored in favor of “inside” or “seller’s agent-represented” buyers who offered less, I would take a stand, even writing the payoff dept of the 1st TD lender directly and mailing it certified – about ten seconds after the game was played against me, with a copy of my offer that was “rejected” (dated shortly after the listing went public), and also with any recent SOLD comps supporting my offer. In it, I would name the seller’s agent with her explanation why my offer could not be presented.

Since we still seem to have a ways to go to “wade” thru “short sales,” reform is needed in this area, IMO.

researcher9, I don’t recommend “joining them” so the listing agent can get your side of the commission, too, for defrauding the lenders. “Joining them” will just perpetuate more of this type of behavior which is already way out of control. Keep your own savvy buyer’s agent and your own counsel.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SD Realtor]…This is a fundamental problem with short sales. I am not a fan of the system but there are agents that are much more adept then others with regards to getting short sales completed WITHIN THE CURRENT FRAMEWORK of how things are today. Can one argue that the first lienholder got hosed, perhaps even defrauded? Yes they probably can. Does this hurt overall comps in the neighborhood and piss off other homeowners there and even buyers who did not pursue the home aggressively? Yes.

It is what it is.[/quote]

SDR, I still have a couple of problems with this scenario and a question.

1. An offer just “happened” to be “selected” (not the highest) which paid 100% of the commission to the listing broker, “Maxum Realty.”

2. These out-of-area lenders being asked to “take it in the shorts” are obviously dumb@sses. They don’t need to own the property in order to get their own BPO out there to properly comp the property. Instead, they are believing the delinquent seller’s listing agent’s (friend/church buddy/relative?) bogus comps that are sent with an offer which will allow their broker to double end the commission. Not necessarily the HIGHEST, but the BEST for the LISTING AGENT/BROKER and/or consisting of special out-of-escrow “perks” for his/her deadbeat sellers (who should be grateful they are even getting out of their [frequently ATM’ed to death] albatross). If the first TD holder had accepted researcher9’s offer, they may have been ABLE to satisfy the 2nd TD holder’s requirements.

Question: Are there any SOLD COMPS for the LAST 6 MONTHS which would indicate this property is worth $200k+ more? In other words, did the appraiser use the right sold comps here?

If I was looking in a very specific area to buy for as long as researcher9 has and I had at least a 20% downpayment and kept getting ignored in favor of “inside” or “seller’s agent-represented” buyers who offered less, I would take a stand, even writing the payoff dept of the 1st TD lender directly and mailing it certified – about ten seconds after the game was played against me, with a copy of my offer that was “rejected” (dated shortly after the listing went public), and also with any recent SOLD comps supporting my offer. In it, I would name the seller’s agent with her explanation why my offer could not be presented.

Since we still seem to have a ways to go to “wade” thru “short sales,” reform is needed in this area, IMO.

researcher9, I don’t recommend “joining them” so the listing agent can get your side of the commission, too, for defrauding the lenders. “Joining them” will just perpetuate more of this type of behavior which is already way out of control. Keep your own savvy buyer’s agent and your own counsel.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SD Realtor]…This is a fundamental problem with short sales. I am not a fan of the system but there are agents that are much more adept then others with regards to getting short sales completed WITHIN THE CURRENT FRAMEWORK of how things are today. Can one argue that the first lienholder got hosed, perhaps even defrauded? Yes they probably can. Does this hurt overall comps in the neighborhood and piss off other homeowners there and even buyers who did not pursue the home aggressively? Yes.

It is what it is.[/quote]

SDR, I still have a couple of problems with this scenario and a question.

1. An offer just “happened” to be “selected” (not the highest) which paid 100% of the commission to the listing broker, “Maxum Realty.”

2. These out-of-area lenders being asked to “take it in the shorts” are obviously dumb@sses. They don’t need to own the property in order to get their own BPO out there to properly comp the property. Instead, they are believing the delinquent seller’s listing agent’s (friend/church buddy/relative?) bogus comps that are sent with an offer which will allow their broker to double end the commission. Not necessarily the HIGHEST, but the BEST for the LISTING AGENT/BROKER and/or consisting of special out-of-escrow “perks” for his/her deadbeat sellers (who should be grateful they are even getting out of their [frequently ATM’ed to death] albatross). If the first TD holder had accepted researcher9’s offer, they may have been ABLE to satisfy the 2nd TD holder’s requirements.

Question: Are there any SOLD COMPS for the LAST 6 MONTHS which would indicate this property is worth $200k+ more? In other words, did the appraiser use the right sold comps here?

If I was looking in a very specific area to buy for as long as researcher9 has and I had at least a 20% downpayment and kept getting ignored in favor of “inside” or “seller’s agent-represented” buyers who offered less, I would take a stand, even writing the payoff dept of the 1st TD lender directly and mailing it certified – about ten seconds after the game was played against me, with a copy of my offer that was “rejected” (dated shortly after the listing went public), and also with any recent SOLD comps supporting my offer. In it, I would name the seller’s agent with her explanation why my offer could not be presented.

Since we still seem to have a ways to go to “wade” thru “short sales,” reform is needed in this area, IMO.

researcher9, I don’t recommend “joining them” so the listing agent can get your side of the commission, too, for defrauding the lenders. “Joining them” will just perpetuate more of this type of behavior which is already way out of control. Keep your own savvy buyer’s agent and your own counsel.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SD Realtor]…This is a fundamental problem with short sales. I am not a fan of the system but there are agents that are much more adept then others with regards to getting short sales completed WITHIN THE CURRENT FRAMEWORK of how things are today. Can one argue that the first lienholder got hosed, perhaps even defrauded? Yes they probably can. Does this hurt overall comps in the neighborhood and piss off other homeowners there and even buyers who did not pursue the home aggressively? Yes.

It is what it is.[/quote]

SDR, I still have a couple of problems with this scenario and a question.

1. An offer just “happened” to be “selected” (not the highest) which paid 100% of the commission to the listing broker, “Maxum Realty.”

2. These out-of-area lenders being asked to “take it in the shorts” are obviously dumb@sses. They don’t need to own the property in order to get their own BPO out there to properly comp the property. Instead, they are believing the delinquent seller’s listing agent’s (friend/church buddy/relative?) bogus comps that are sent with an offer which will allow their broker to double end the commission. Not necessarily the HIGHEST, but the BEST for the LISTING AGENT/BROKER and/or consisting of special out-of-escrow “perks” for his/her deadbeat sellers (who should be grateful they are even getting out of their [frequently ATM’ed to death] albatross). If the first TD holder had accepted researcher9’s offer, they may have been ABLE to satisfy the 2nd TD holder’s requirements.

Question: Are there any SOLD COMPS for the LAST 6 MONTHS which would indicate this property is worth $200k+ more? In other words, did the appraiser use the right sold comps here?

If I was looking in a very specific area to buy for as long as researcher9 has and I had at least a 20% downpayment and kept getting ignored in favor of “inside” or “seller’s agent-represented” buyers who offered less, I would take a stand, even writing the payoff dept of the 1st TD lender directly and mailing it certified – about ten seconds after the game was played against me, with a copy of my offer that was “rejected” (dated shortly after the listing went public), and also with any recent SOLD comps supporting my offer. In it, I would name the seller’s agent with her explanation why my offer could not be presented.

Since we still seem to have a ways to go to “wade” thru “short sales,” reform is needed in this area, IMO.

researcher9, I don’t recommend “joining them” so the listing agent can get your side of the commission, too, for defrauding the lenders. “Joining them” will just perpetuate more of this type of behavior which is already way out of control. Keep your own savvy buyer’s agent and your own counsel.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SD Realtor]…This is a fundamental problem with short sales. I am not a fan of the system but there are agents that are much more adept then others with regards to getting short sales completed WITHIN THE CURRENT FRAMEWORK of how things are today. Can one argue that the first lienholder got hosed, perhaps even defrauded? Yes they probably can. Does this hurt overall comps in the neighborhood and piss off other homeowners there and even buyers who did not pursue the home aggressively? Yes.

It is what it is.[/quote]

SDR, I still have a couple of problems with this scenario and a question.

1. An offer just “happened” to be “selected” (not the highest) which paid 100% of the commission to the listing broker, “Maxum Realty.”

2. These out-of-area lenders being asked to “take it in the shorts” are obviously dumb@sses. They don’t need to own the property in order to get their own BPO out there to properly comp the property. Instead, they are believing the delinquent seller’s listing agent’s (friend/church buddy/relative?) bogus comps that are sent with an offer which will allow their broker to double end the commission. Not necessarily the HIGHEST, but the BEST for the LISTING AGENT/BROKER and/or consisting of special out-of-escrow “perks” for his/her deadbeat sellers (who should be grateful they are even getting out of their [frequently ATM’ed to death] albatross). If the first TD holder had accepted researcher9’s offer, they may have been ABLE to satisfy the 2nd TD holder’s requirements.

Question: Are there any SOLD COMPS for the LAST 6 MONTHS which would indicate this property is worth $200k+ more? In other words, did the appraiser use the right sold comps here?

If I was looking in a very specific area to buy for as long as researcher9 has and I had at least a 20% downpayment and kept getting ignored in favor of “inside” or “seller’s agent-represented” buyers who offered less, I would take a stand, even writing the payoff dept of the 1st TD lender directly and mailing it certified – about ten seconds after the game was played against me, with a copy of my offer that was “rejected” (dated shortly after the listing went public), and also with any recent SOLD comps supporting my offer. In it, I would name the seller’s agent with her explanation why my offer could not be presented.

Since we still seem to have a ways to go to “wade” thru “short sales,” reform is needed in this area, IMO.

researcher9, I don’t recommend “joining them” so the listing agent can get your side of the commission, too, for defrauding the lenders. “Joining them” will just perpetuate more of this type of behavior which is already way out of control. Keep your own savvy buyer’s agent and your own counsel.

[SD Realtor]

Cannot comment as I was not privy to the appraisal. The neighborhood has a huge diversity with regards to comps due to view lots that vary with the side of the street you are on. It also has variances due to streets that back to busier streets. Furthermore the comments indicate that the home was pretty stripped down. Unlike you, I do not jump to conclusions, I was not in the home, I could not view the home, nor was I part of the bidding process. There are not any sold comps that match this size home with a view lot. There are sold comps for bigger homes with view lots that are much higher. Sounds to me like your beef should be with the appraiser who put it at 760k.

I would suggest that you alleviate your concern and call the listing agent to find out more information. You can also ask one of your realtor friends to run a comp analysis.

People do not have to participate in any short sale process. The ones that did in this case got the home. For better or for worse, (and obviously for worse) they took advantage of the current system and are living in a nice home with an ocean view at a great price.

Or they could have listened to you.

I am not advocating that the current system works. It does not, it perpetuates bad practice by some realtors.

I had a short sale awhile back similar to this but I did not double end it. However there was a substantial payment that needed to be made to a second lien holder. We had like 8 offers on the home and every single one of them balked at that payment with only a single exception.

I know it is much easier to jump to conclusions then find out all the facts.

[SD Realtor]

Cannot comment as I was not privy to the appraisal. The neighborhood has a huge diversity with regards to comps due to view lots that vary with the side of the street you are on. It also has variances due to streets that back to busier streets. Furthermore the comments indicate that the home was pretty stripped down. Unlike you, I do not jump to conclusions, I was not in the home, I could not view the home, nor was I part of the bidding process. There are not any sold comps that match this size home with a view lot. There are sold comps for bigger homes with view lots that are much higher. Sounds to me like your beef should be with the appraiser who put it at 760k.

I would suggest that you alleviate your concern and call the listing agent to find out more information. You can also ask one of your realtor friends to run a comp analysis.

People do not have to participate in any short sale process. The ones that did in this case got the home. For better or for worse, (and obviously for worse) they took advantage of the current system and are living in a nice home with an ocean view at a great price.

Or they could have listened to you.

I am not advocating that the current system works. It does not, it perpetuates bad practice by some realtors.

I had a short sale awhile back similar to this but I did not double end it. However there was a substantial payment that needed to be made to a second lien holder. We had like 8 offers on the home and every single one of them balked at that payment with only a single exception.

I know it is much easier to jump to conclusions then find out all the facts.

[SD Realtor]

Cannot comment as I was not privy to the appraisal. The neighborhood has a huge diversity with regards to comps due to view lots that vary with the side of the street you are on. It also has variances due to streets that back to busier streets. Furthermore the comments indicate that the home was pretty stripped down. Unlike you, I do not jump to conclusions, I was not in the home, I could not view the home, nor was I part of the bidding process. There are not any sold comps that match this size home with a view lot. There are sold comps for bigger homes with view lots that are much higher. Sounds to me like your beef should be with the appraiser who put it at 760k.

I would suggest that you alleviate your concern and call the listing agent to find out more information. You can also ask one of your realtor friends to run a comp analysis.

People do not have to participate in any short sale process. The ones that did in this case got the home. For better or for worse, (and obviously for worse) they took advantage of the current system and are living in a nice home with an ocean view at a great price.

Or they could have listened to you.

I am not advocating that the current system works. It does not, it perpetuates bad practice by some realtors.

I had a short sale awhile back similar to this but I did not double end it. However there was a substantial payment that needed to be made to a second lien holder. We had like 8 offers on the home and every single one of them balked at that payment with only a single exception.

I know it is much easier to jump to conclusions then find out all the facts.

[SD Realtor]

Cannot comment as I was not privy to the appraisal. The neighborhood has a huge diversity with regards to comps due to view lots that vary with the side of the street you are on. It also has variances due to streets that back to busier streets. Furthermore the comments indicate that the home was pretty stripped down. Unlike you, I do not jump to conclusions, I was not in the home, I could not view the home, nor was I part of the bidding process. There are not any sold comps that match this size home with a view lot. There are sold comps for bigger homes with view lots that are much higher. Sounds to me like your beef should be with the appraiser who put it at 760k.

I would suggest that you alleviate your concern and call the listing agent to find out more information. You can also ask one of your realtor friends to run a comp analysis.

People do not have to participate in any short sale process. The ones that did in this case got the home. For better or for worse, (and obviously for worse) they took advantage of the current system and are living in a nice home with an ocean view at a great price.

Or they could have listened to you.

I am not advocating that the current system works. It does not, it perpetuates bad practice by some realtors.

I had a short sale awhile back similar to this but I did not double end it. However there was a substantial payment that needed to be made to a second lien holder. We had like 8 offers on the home and every single one of them balked at that payment with only a single exception.

I know it is much easier to jump to conclusions then find out all the facts.

[SD Realtor]

Cannot comment as I was not privy to the appraisal. The neighborhood has a huge diversity with regards to comps due to view lots that vary with the side of the street you are on. It also has variances due to streets that back to busier streets. Furthermore the comments indicate that the home was pretty stripped down. Unlike you, I do not jump to conclusions, I was not in the home, I could not view the home, nor was I part of the bidding process. There are not any sold comps that match this size home with a view lot. There are sold comps for bigger homes with view lots that are much higher. Sounds to me like your beef should be with the appraiser who put it at 760k.

I would suggest that you alleviate your concern and call the listing agent to find out more information. You can also ask one of your realtor friends to run a comp analysis.

People do not have to participate in any short sale process. The ones that did in this case got the home. For better or for worse, (and obviously for worse) they took advantage of the current system and are living in a nice home with an ocean view at a great price.

Or they could have listened to you.

I am not advocating that the current system works. It does not, it perpetuates bad practice by some realtors.

I had a short sale awhile back similar to this but I did not double end it. However there was a substantial payment that needed to be made to a second lien holder. We had like 8 offers on the home and every single one of them balked at that payment with only a single exception.

I know it is much easier to jump to conclusions then find out all the facts.

[SD Realtor]

Researcher clearly what happened to you with regards to the listing agent does sound bad. I think that you should have documented your case and presented a formal complaint to the DRE when the case happened. You could have (and probably still can) file a complaint with the DRE against both the agent and the broker.

You did not mention how long after the listing went active that you or your agent called the listing agent.

The poor behavior exhibited by the agent is not going to get remedied unless people who are directly affected make complaints to the DRE. While it may be considered ineffective or useless, it is the best means to attempt to get agents to behave in a more ethical manner that we have at our disposal today.

In the future I would urge you to document things, SUBMIT WRITTEN offers regardless of the phone conversations, and have your agent make the contacts and submissions as this will bolster your case.

What happened to you does suck, however they may have well accepted the other offer by the time you called. I am not saying it is right.

[SD Realtor]

Researcher clearly what happened to you with regards to the listing agent does sound bad. I think that you should have documented your case and presented a formal complaint to the DRE when the case happened. You could have (and probably still can) file a complaint with the DRE against both the agent and the broker.

You did not mention how long after the listing went active that you or your agent called the listing agent.

The poor behavior exhibited by the agent is not going to get remedied unless people who are directly affected make complaints to the DRE. While it may be considered ineffective or useless, it is the best means to attempt to get agents to behave in a more ethical manner that we have at our disposal today.

In the future I would urge you to document things, SUBMIT WRITTEN offers regardless of the phone conversations, and have your agent make the contacts and submissions as this will bolster your case.

What happened to you does suck, however they may have well accepted the other offer by the time you called. I am not saying it is right.

[SD Realtor]

Researcher clearly what happened to you with regards to the listing agent does sound bad. I think that you should have documented your case and presented a formal complaint to the DRE when the case happened. You could have (and probably still can) file a complaint with the DRE against both the agent and the broker.

You did not mention how long after the listing went active that you or your agent called the listing agent.

The poor behavior exhibited by the agent is not going to get remedied unless people who are directly affected make complaints to the DRE. While it may be considered ineffective or useless, it is the best means to attempt to get agents to behave in a more ethical manner that we have at our disposal today.

In the future I would urge you to document things, SUBMIT WRITTEN offers regardless of the phone conversations, and have your agent make the contacts and submissions as this will bolster your case.

What happened to you does suck, however they may have well accepted the other offer by the time you called. I am not saying it is right.

[SD Realtor]

Researcher clearly what happened to you with regards to the listing agent does sound bad. I think that you should have documented your case and presented a formal complaint to the DRE when the case happened. You could have (and probably still can) file a complaint with the DRE against both the agent and the broker.

You did not mention how long after the listing went active that you or your agent called the listing agent.

The poor behavior exhibited by the agent is not going to get remedied unless people who are directly affected make complaints to the DRE. While it may be considered ineffective or useless, it is the best means to attempt to get agents to behave in a more ethical manner that we have at our disposal today.

In the future I would urge you to document things, SUBMIT WRITTEN offers regardless of the phone conversations, and have your agent make the contacts and submissions as this will bolster your case.

What happened to you does suck, however they may have well accepted the other offer by the time you called. I am not saying it is right.

[Author]

Posts