Home › Forums › Closed Forums › Properties or Areas › 4S Ranch feels like Curry Campground to me. Anyone else?
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November 30, 2011 at 10:57 PM #733699November 30, 2011 at 11:22 PM #733698anParticipant
[quote=captcha]Indeed. But between being single-income by choice and dual-income by necessity which one would you pick? And weren’t you the one who brought up the 4% unemployment rate among people with 4-year college degree? So, is it hard or not to get a job if you are well educated?[/quote]Yes, but that 4% is for people who are currently employed. I read/hear a lot about people who have been out of work for >6 months have a much harder time finding a job.
[quote=captcha]I don’t know how many put 25% down. JimTheRealtor publishes numbers like that for few costal areas. Back in June 13% of sales were with less than 20% down and 44% put 30% or more.I did not say anyone. Get-rich-quick people that got flushed probably did have those. Or maybe not since they likely were not college educated. Looking at my cul-de-sac, there are two retired military officers, two active duty military officers, 7-8 engineering immigrants mostly in mid-level managerial positions. That’s what I see when I look around.[/quote]True, but how much of those high down payment is in the $400k-600k range? How many retired people do you know retire in a $400k-600k house in 4S, vs 1st time home buyers? I would assume the $400k-600k range are the first time home buyers and the $600k+ is the retiree and middle management people. Is your cul-de-sac in the $400-600k range or the $600k+ range?
[quote=captcha]Your numbers are off. My first-hand experience says that a family of four can carry $400K mortgage, put $20K in 401k+IRA, travel to Europe, make several ski trips to Big Bear, own two cars, have two kids enrolled in 7 year-round activities combined, dine out at least twice/month, see a dentist twice/year, pay an extra payment or two on the mortgage, and still easily save $1K/month on $125K/year.[/quote]My numbers are not off, you’re just putting in $23k/year less than my numbers, which is maxing out of 401k + IRA for both spouses ($16.5k each for 401k and $5k each for IRA). BTW, I didn’t add in college fund either.
[quote=captcha]That’s OK. Some people are fiscally conservative and some are even more fiscally conservative.[/quote]That’s true, I just never consider myself to be in the “even more fiscally conservative” range. That label would be more fitting with my parents.December 1, 2011 at 5:47 PM #733825ltsdddParticipant[quote=ocrenter]4S and SEH is perfect for middle class families that put good schools on top of their list. $400-$600K range is what 4S/SEH homes should be at.[/quote]
Absolutely, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Wouldn’t it be great they would roll back prices so that homes Carmel Valley would be in the range of $500-700K, 4S $400-600K and Stonebridge Estates $300-500K.
December 1, 2011 at 6:00 PM #733826ltsdddParticipant[quote=mp7444][quote=bearishgurl]… And if a typical lot in this price range is only, say, 3800 sf, …[/quote]
The original post is quite old… I guess in that time some of the lots may be about that size. But I know that many of the new homes in the $700-$800’s are in the lot size about 7000sf.
[quote=earlyretirement]
We ended up buying in Santaluz. It was more expensive at around $1 million vs. 4S Ranch but the quality was so much better, low density, homes were gorgeous, lot and grounds meticulously maintained, etc. ….[/quote]
ER, I am glad you enjoy living in SantaLuz. I probably would as well if I had the money. I don’t think it’s a fair comparison as 4S and SantaLuz are not in the same type of homes anyway. Unless you’re talking about the Ivy Gate, or the Salviati, or the Mission Ranch (to be built in 2012)[/quote]mp7444,
Well, that’s not exactly a fair comparison either. Price-wise – yes. House-wise -no. In Santa Luz, a million buck will probably get you one of those 2,000 sqft “casitas”. The density might be lower in Santa Luz comparing to 4S as a whole. However, individually, these casitas themselves are built on lots that are not much bigger than the house itself.December 2, 2011 at 7:42 AM #733846ocrenterParticipant[quote=ltsdd][quote=ocrenter]4S and SEH is perfect for middle class families that put good schools on top of their list. $400-$600K range is what 4S/SEH homes should be at.[/quote]
Absolutely, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Wouldn’t it be great they would roll back prices so that homes Carmel Valley would be in the range of $500-700K, 4S $400-600K and Stonebridge Estates $300-500K.[/quote]
You know, 4S prices are not that far off. There are a bunch of >3000 sqft homes asking in the mid 600’s, I see a lot of mid 2000 sqft homes in the 500k range. So essentially prices are about 10% above what is expected for the area.
The smaller more tract like developments in stonebrige are also in the low 600k range, I think they are pretty comparable to 4S style homes. As for your idea that the typical 4000-5000 sqft homes on 1/3 to 1/2 acre in Stonebridge getting to $500k… You might be in for a really really long wait, good luck on that, I’ll be pulling for you.
CV 2500sqft SFR are still at around 800k. Like I said many time before, most overpriced out of the 3 areas. On the other hand, SEH 3000 sqft homes are firmly in the 500k range!
December 13, 2011 at 1:36 PM #734577earlyretirementParticipantActually the price has really come down in Santaluz over the past several years. A million bucks buys you quite a bit more than it used to here. I’ve been watching the market here for a few years.
A million bucks or a little bit more can get you a 4,000 sq. foot house now…not just a 2,000 sq. ft. casita.
While I realize that you can’t compare 4S Ranch with Santaluz because there is a gap in the prices…. You still have to look at what you get relative to what you are paying.
I realize that many buying in 4S Ranch to begin with are really reaching to buy there. All I’m saying is I guess I’d probably just wait and save up more to buy in a better area if possible.
When we were looking this summer….I saw some totally mediocre houses in 4S Ranch for the $800’s. And in Carmel Valley houses literally piled on top of one another with 5 neighbors looking into your back yard (Pacific Highlands Ranch) were over $1 million.
I just will never understand the logic of spending a million bucks there in Carmel Valley with houses piled on top of one another vs. other areas.
Yes, I realize there aren’t Mello Roos in much of Carmel Valley but I would have thought that someone buying a $1 million house won’t get broken by an extra $6,000 a year in MR taxes….but I guess that’s not the case. People are really stretching here in many areas.
But a million bucks sure buys a heck of a lot more than it used to in this neck of the woods.
December 13, 2011 at 1:48 PM #734580anParticipant[quote=earlyretirement]I just will never understand the logic of spending a million bucks there in Carmel Valley with houses piled on top of one another vs. other areas. [/quote]
Could it have something to do with the Zipcode? I mean, Santaluz is still only 92127.December 13, 2011 at 2:20 PM #734586allParticipantEarlyretirement, can you post a listing in Santaluz that you are talking about? I see only three under $1MM (one at $999K). The most affordable one is 2,327sf at $352/sf with $450/month HOA (Google Maps shows 4S-sized backyard). Earlier today someone posted about a $170/sf short sale in 4S with $85/month HOA. I see few 3,500-4,000sf houses for around $800K on lots similar in size to the Santaluz one. I don’t see the listing in your neighborhood that is really comparable in affordability to 4S.
December 13, 2011 at 2:23 PM #734584earlyretirementParticipantYes, Santaluz is 92127. Poway School District.
I don’t even need some huge yard. I just didn’t like the fact that almost all of the homes in 4S Ranch and especially Carmel Valley all sit on top of one another.
There are a few developments including Santaluz that were much better where your neighbor couldn’t easily see into your back yard unless they really made an effort. The developers did a really great job planning the community here.
All of the houses we saw in Carmel Valley were in zip code 92130. The schools there are good as well but it’s not like you’re right on the water. I can be in Carmel Valley in 5 minutes from my house. It’s only 1 exit down from my exit.
I do like the physical location of Carmel Valley being so close to Del Mar and being in close proximity of the city but could never justify spending a million bucks on a house with absolutely NO privacy like many in Pacific Highlands Ranch.
The nice thing there was that there was almost no Mello Roos taxes in much of Carmel Valley but like I mentioned…I don’t think anyone buying a million dollar + house will get broken spending an extra $6,000 or so a year on MR taxes.
People might make a stink about having to pay $450 a month in HOA fees at Santaluz but they forget it includes Cable and Internet (10 MB) service. And the Cable is a good package that also includes HBO and Showtime.
So really I think the HOA fees here are quite reasonable for all that you get here. They keep the grounds in impeccable shape, have 24/7 security including roving security guards that always seem to be driving around.
I’ve referred a few people to Santaluz and so far everyone has absolutely been blown away when they visit.
December 13, 2011 at 2:54 PM #734588earlyretirementParticipant[quote=captcha]Earlyretirement, can you post a listing in Santaluz that you are talking about? I see only three under $1MM (one at $999K). The most affordable one is 2,327sf at $352/sf with $450/month HOA (Google Maps shows 4S-sized backyard). Earlier today someone posted about a $170/sf short sale in 4S with $85/month HOA. I see few 3,500-4,000sf houses for around $800K on lots similar in size to the Santaluz one. I don’t see the listing in your neighborhood that is really comparable in affordability to 4S.[/quote]
It’s been a while since I last looked at stuff for sale but this summer there were several listings. Maybe there aren’t as many now for sale but you get the gist. I’ll post a few below.
There may not be too much for sale now but I’m sure things come and go. Also, some sellers are still in la la land asking for prices they will never get. I’m sure eventually reality will set in with these people.
And again, I wasn’t trying to say Santaluz and this general area has the same affordability as 4S Ranch because it certainly doesn’t. I realize 4S Ranch is quite a bit cheaper.
It’s not even about size of the yard to me as it is quality of construction of the houses and general community.
This house we saw in Santaluz and it kept falling out of Escrow. It was a traditional sale. $888,000 which I thought was great value. You could have easily turned the upstairs area into a 5th bedroom if you wanted with an in-suite bathroom. So 5 bedrooms and 5 bathrooms.
As you can see it only closed a few short months ago in mid September.
My main point is would you rather own a beautiful house like this for $888,000 or some of the junk they have in 4S Ranch?? And it’s not even like someone could argue that this home was a short sale because it was a traditional sale.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/14653-Caminito-Lazanja-92127/home/6482922
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This one isn’t in Santaluz but at the Crosby. It went for $1.1 million which I thought was a great price. A short sale. Take a look at the sales history!
4,720 sq. foot with over half an acre….not bad to me….
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/8282-Top-O-The-Morning-Way-92127/home/6481654
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This one sold this summer at Santa Monica in Santaluz. Beautiful house with big yard…I just couldn’t get over the power lines at the back of the development.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/14640-La-Plata-92127/home/6583637
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This one sold in the Crosby earlier this year.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/8197-Lamour-Ln-92127/home/12152212
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Sold in Santa Monica a few short months ago:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/14627-Rio-Rancho-92127/home/6583647
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Sold at Santa Monica:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/7456-La-Mantanza-92127/home/6583783
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http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/14443-Rancho-Del-Prado-Trl-92127/home/6619896
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Sold in Santaluz a few months ago:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/14523-Caminito-Lazanja-92127/home/6482764
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For Sale in Santa Monica:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/14616-La-Plata-92127/home/6583628
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I’m by no means saying these are screaming deals. Only that if you are truly buying for the long term and not buying an investment property but a home where you plan to live the next many years….I think now is a decent time to buy.
The rental prices on true quality homes in nice school districts here are in demand and certainly not cheap. So compared to rental prices, ownership costs right now certainly make sense if you’re buying for the long term. Especially with these dirt cheap mortgage rates.
I know places like 4S Ranch have a totally different profile of buyer vs. areas like Santaluz. But I still think it makes sense to point out the vast differences in quality of construction and general quality of the community. Which I found really lacking at much of 4S Ranch. JMHO.
December 13, 2011 at 3:08 PM #734590allParticipantAh, I was looking at the houses east of Camino Del Sur only.
These are nice, but they are still $200-300K and $300-400/month in fees more expensive than 4S houses or surrounded more than comparable 4S houses.
This one sold for $880K, nice location, decent house, MR+HOA $600-700/month less than what Santaluz fees are: http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/Undisclosed-address-92127/home/6454502
Or this one that went for $750K
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/16345-Alipaz-Ct-92127/home/6454595The best houses in 4S might cost you 10-20% less than the worst one you listed. I wish that was the case, but I don’t think another two or three years worth of savings is the accurate estimate of the difference between 4S and Santaluz.
December 13, 2011 at 3:18 PM #734591earlyretirementParticipantHey Captcha,
Thanks for posting those. They do look like nice houses. No doubt I’m sure 4S Ranch has some nicer areas. I’m certainly NO expert on it. I’m just going by some that we saw which was some of the newer communities.
I’m sure the older homes there are better quality construction than the newer stuff being built.
I do agree with you there is a big price difference which seems to separate the buyers in these areas.
As mentioned before on this and other sites…once you go past $750’s you seem to go into a different profile of buyer.
December 13, 2011 at 3:47 PM #734592anParticipantearlyretirement, I think it all comes down to the fact that those two areas attack different price points and buyers. So you can’t really compare to the two, since they’re like comparing apple to oranges. The $880k in Santaluz you posted would have similar monthly payment as a $980k house in 4S, due to ~$500 more in HOA&MR. I don’t think most houses in 4S are in that price range. Most of the houses in 4S are in the $650-750k range. That would yield similar payment as a house in Santaluz in $550-650k range (assuming there is such a house), due to the HOA&MR differences.
This is what’s available in 4S for similar payment as your $880k example:
http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-110061379-92127
http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-110057354-16022_Palomino_Valley_Rd_San_Diego_CA_92127Sold comps:
http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-110043359-16138_Palomino_Valley_Rd_San_Diego_CA_92127 (This house is over 1000 sq-ft larger and seem to be sitting on a larger log too). Also, this one has a view while the Caminito Lazanja doesn’t.December 13, 2011 at 6:17 PM #734604ltsdddParticipantER,
That explains the confusion there. All the homes you cited are fine homes, but none of those is in Santaluz. Strictly speaking, Santaluz homes are those situated east of Camino Del Sur and south of San Dieguito Road. The ones you pointed out, other than the ones in Crosby, are west of Camino Del Sur and are really neither part of Santaluz or Del Sur developments. I will say this again, in Santaluz, a million $ will get nothing more than one of those casitas.December 13, 2011 at 7:18 PM #734609earlyretirementParticipantActually ltsdd. The house that sold for $888,000 indeed is part of Santaluz. I know that Santa Monica isn’t within the gates of Santaluz (although realtors will try to argue that it’s part of Santaluz). Don’t forget about Lazanja Pass (you go under that bridge) that connects the other side and it indeed is within the gates of Santaluz.
And I do agree that homes really start out in the $1 million range. But we visited several homes on the other side and I still would rather own West of Camino del Sur vs. other areas like Carmel Valley at the $1 million range in areas like Pacific Highland Ranch.
Some realtors tried telling us that “Santaluz” consists of the neighborhoods of (1) within the gates of Santaluz; (2) Santa Monica; (3) Marisol; and (4) Verrazano. But the simple fact that only the members that live “within the gates” can buy into the Santaluz Hacienda Club (www.santaluz.com) to me shows that only those living within the gates live in “Santaluz”. JMHO.
Although I’ll say that we saw some beautiful homes in Verrazano but we just couldn’t find anything big enough for us. But I would much rather buy there vs. 4S Ranch or Carmel Valley as well.
For example, we saw several houses like this in Carmel Valley.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/5842-Aster-Meadows-Pl-92130/home/7515078
You can see they never were able to move it and took it off the market. Just look at a Google Map of the area and all the houses packed in.
There was a LOT of junk on the market earlier this year for sale. But there really wasn’t much inventory that I’d consider GREAT in great condition and truly move in ready. Most needed some type of renovations.
But all the properties that were in great condition and priced fairly all sold and aren’t on the market. There were several owners (especially in Carmel Valley) that were truly dreaming and their houses sit on the market forever or they took them off.
We kind of laughed after a while at some of the owners that had their homes for sale for literally years and years. It’s like they do NOT want to face reality.
We didn’t consider this one but there are many examples like this out there in Carmel Valley. Take a look at the sales activity and listing activity on them. Some for sale 3.5 or 4 years.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/13483-Ginger-Glen-Rd-San-Diego-CA-92130/69020328_zpid/
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