$100K "minimum wage" ?

User Forum Topic
Submitted by harvey on April 6, 2018 - 4:09pm

I was talking to a friend who was going to start a small tech business but is reluctant because of the cost of employees.

He told me that there is an effective minimum wage for any exempt computer professional in CA of $90K. I told him he had to be full of it, but my google results are telling me he may be right:

https://www.dir.ca.gov/oprl/ComputerSoft...

https://www.morganlewis.com/pubs/new-com...

The minimum is also tied to inflation, so raises are guaranteed every year. It won't be long before $100K salaries are "minimum wage."

Am I missing something here?

Does that mean that every new college hire in every programming job is making at least 90K?

No wonder these coding camps are so popular...

Submitted by flu on April 6, 2018 - 4:51pm.

If you don't make $100k as an engineer in CA, either you are working for your own startup, you feel very charitable with your labor, just graduated with maybe 1-2 years or aren't really good at what you do.

Tesla design engineer that wanted to lease a home in Bay Area reported total comp for the past 2 years was about $600k/year. Kinda said that they still need to rent. lol.

The clampdown on H1-B's is only going to make employing tech workers even more expensive. lol.

How does the saying goes in the current tech world?
"Gee, I'd like to work for your startup you think is the next big hit, but no offense, you can't afford me"

Submitted by spdrun on April 6, 2018 - 5:05pm.

No. It's not true. It's just that if you make more than ~$90k/yr, employers are allowed to steal your time without remuneration.

i.e. not compensate you for time if you work > 40 hours a week.

Submitted by harvey on April 6, 2018 - 5:20pm.

flu wrote:
If you don't make $100k as an engineer in CA, either you are working for your own startup, you feel very charitable with your labor, just graduated with maybe 1-2 years or aren't really good at what you do.

Tesla design engineer that wanted to lease a home in Bay Area reported total comp for the past 2 years was about $600k/year. Kinda said that they still need to rent. lol.

The clampdown on H1-B's is only going to make employing tech workers even more expensive. lol.

How does the saying goes in the current tech world?
"Gee, I'd like to work for your startup you think is the next big hit, but no offense, you can't afford me"

You took a simple yes-no question and failed to answer it because you saw it as another opportunity to whine about ... whatever it is you are always whining about.

This law covers all "computer professionals" and not everyone that is a coder is from a top school working in Silicon Valley.

I'm thinking that maybe there are more than a few 3rd-rate Access programmers at a car parts warehouse in Modesto that were making less than $90K before this law came along. Did they all get big raises?

Seems the guy in the basement with the red stapler is doing alright after all.

Submitted by spdrun on April 6, 2018 - 5:35pm.

They were either just limited to 40 hour weeks, or weren't given overtime in violation of the law.

Submitted by flu on April 6, 2018 - 8:14pm.

Quote:

You took a simple yes-no question and failed to answer it because you saw it as another opportunity to whine about ... whatever it is you are always whining about.

This law covers all "computer professionals" and not everyone that is a coder is from a top school working in Silicon Valley.

I'm thinking that maybe there are more than a few 3rd-rate Access programmers at a car parts warehouse in Modesto that were making less than $90K before this law came along. Did they all get big raises?

Seems the guy in the basement with the red stapler is doing alright after all.

No, I took a question asked by someone that seems clueless in the software space, and answered as accurately as I could based on my hiring record for the past few years and what I am seeing locally and in NorCal.

Seems to be you don't know the difference between software engineer and programmers, and who knows what your friend needs...If simply want a "programmer" working on some dead end "project" with some dead end tech that a high school student could do these days , I am sure you can find a bargain basement person to slap a bunch a shit together that can get a POC done or at least looks functional, just like if you want a shitty IT guy from DeVry to handle your corp network security, go for that too.

If you can't tell the difference between software engineering and programmer let alone Access programmer (lol), we don't need to have this discussion because both you and your friend don't need software engineer. you need a monkey programmer that doesn't really have to do that well of a job.

I just hired someone with about 3 years experience. about $13Ok, not including relocation. I am about to offer fresh graduate that did great as an intern starting around $100k. We're a private company, and it's tough to compete against the bigger employers that have a matching 401k, ESPP, RSU stock grants...because every informed hire knows those private stock options are pretty much worthless in most cases. And these guys, while they are good, I wouldn't consider top talent.
San Diego can't hire top talent unless you are willing to pay an arm and a leg for, because top talent ends up going to Silly Valley. In most cases you don't need top talent...and in many cases top talent ends up being a pain in the ass arrogrant overpriced pricks not worth hiring.. But, because of how insane it is in Silly Valley, it inflates everything else in metro SoCal, even for not so top talent that is what you really need for most of the work out there. That reduces available supply of qualified workers for even less interesting/challenging/promising work, which is what your friend would find himself in. You aren't going to find too many decent software professionals starving and willing to work for peanuts in SoCal, unless it's friends doing you a favor or unless your offering a sizeable stake in equity AND your company idea is believable. ideas are a dime a dozen, finding people to execute is going to be the problem...especislly when you don't have a good $$$$ story.... And you'll find it difficult to get people to relocate here, because wages aren't that much lower elsewhere, but the cost of living is much more, and to get them to move, you'll need to give them a COL adjustment.

Also, it is increasingly difficult to hire H1Bs, so that puts a constraint on the talent pool as well. Simple supply and demand of too few workers chasing too much available work

Me complaining? why would you think so? Tech looks great right now for workers. Employers have to pay an arm and leg for good software talent these days, especially anything AI or Mobile related. Hours way better than when I was younger, and comp is way better too. it's never been better!

I wish your friend good luck. he's going to need it.

Submitted by harvey on April 6, 2018 - 8:20pm.

Wow, you still can't answer "yes or no" to whether the law defines a minimum salary. If fact you haven't even acknowledged the law I cited.

You can skip the next thousand-word rant exposing your career self-esteem issues. Because I genuinely don't give a fuck about your job.

And lol, I'm not hiring anybody.

Does anybody with a clue want to talk about the legal question?

From the OP links:
... employers must pay their California computer professional employees a salary of at least $90,790.07 annually ($7,565.85 monthly) or an hourly wage of at least $43.58 for every hour worked.

More details:
https://www.worklawyers.com/computer-pro...

There's more to these laws than just computer professionals. All exempt employees are required to make double the state minimum wage. With the state's new $15 minimum wage, that means any salaried employee must be paid a minimum of $62K in 2022. (And per the law there is no such thing as a part-time salaried employee.)

http://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/le...

That's got to be tough for small businesses.

Submitted by flu on April 7, 2018 - 7:58pm.

harvey wrote:
Wow, you still can't answer "yes or no" to whether the law defines a minimum salary. If fact you haven't even acknowledged the law I cited.

You can skip the next thousand-word rant exposing your career self-esteem issues. Because I genuinely don't give a fuck about your job.

And lol, I'm not hiring anybody.

Does anybody with a clue want to talk about the legal question?

From the OP links:
... employers must pay their California computer professional employees a salary of at least $90,790.07 annually ($7,565.85 monthly) or an hourly wage of at least $43.58 for every hour worked.

More details:
https://www.worklawyers.com/computer-pro...

There's more to these laws than just computer professionals. All exempt employees are required to make double the state minimum wage. With the state's new $15 minimum wage, that means any salaried employee must be paid a minimum of $62K in 2022. (And per the law there is no such thing as a part-time salaried employee.)

http://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/le...

That's got to be tough for small businesses.

uh, welcome to CA...theres a bunch of other ridiculous laws. like employers no longer being able to ask potential hires their salary history in California in determining their compensation. and employers no longer allowed to verify previous compensation at previous company.

and considering I am half drunk with buddies writing this I don't give a shit what you think lol...

why don't you review the difference between exempt and non exempt employees I .sure you can figure it out. lol.. I and ur eits buried somewhere there.

your document is about overtime pay btw, and exempt status and someone's wage. key point is hours above 40 hrs. it's pretty clear right there in the subject. normally, exempt employees don't get overtime pay if they work more than. 40 hours, if their pay is above X. this answers a the question if pay isn't X...

in other words you can't hire someone with exempt exempt status at $40k and then make him work 80 hours and not pay him for the 40 extra hours in overtime....You can hire someone at $91k and make him work 120hours before he quits and gives you the finger.

seems like my reading comprehension while half Drunk is still better than your reading comprehension fully sober lol.

Submitted by flu on April 6, 2018 - 8:49pm.

Oh pri-dik, or whateever your orginal handle is...Sorry man, Since BG left, someone has to fill in her show to annoy the fuck out of you with long paragraphs of useless shit with 0.000001% truth buried in it...on a real estate blog... I'll make it a point to do this every friday, after happy hour :)

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 7, 2018 - 8:33am.

WWJD

Submitted by svelte on April 7, 2018 - 11:16am.

Put his hands in the air like he dont care.

Submitted by bobby on April 9, 2018 - 11:02am.

flu provided useful and interesting info.
don't insult the guy b/c you didn't find what you are looking for
this is a FREE public forum. the answers vary in quality.
if you want an answer about the law, I suggest you pay a lawyer.
don't be a donkey.

harvey wrote:
Wow, you still can't answer "yes or no" to whether the law defines a minimum salary. If fact you haven't even acknowledged the law I cited.

You can skip the next thousand-word rant exposing your career self-esteem issues. Because I genuinely don't give a fuck about your job.

And lol, I'm not hiring anybody.

Does anybody with a clue want to talk about the legal question?

From the OP links:
... employers must pay their California computer professional employees a salary of at least $90,790.07 annually ($7,565.85 monthly) or an hourly wage of at least $43.58 for every hour worked.

More details:
https://www.worklawyers.com/computer-pro...

There's more to these laws than just computer professionals. All exempt employees are required to make double the state minimum wage. With the state's new $15 minimum wage, that means any salaried employee must be paid a minimum of $62K in 2022. (And per the law there is no such thing as a part-time salaried employee.)

http://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/le...

That's got to be tough for small businesses.

Submitted by jameswenn on April 9, 2018 - 11:47am.

No, i've worked for companies in SD that hire programmers in the 50-90K all the time, they're hourly employees that have to fill out time cards daily.

You usually know who they are, they're the guys in the office that don't take 2 hour lunches every other day and come in on time and don't leave early.

Submitted by Ribbles on April 10, 2018 - 7:13am.

Our newbs are salary and start at around 80k, no more than a couple years experience. Occasionally we find an absolute gem. Like this one dude who pushes out twice as much code as anyone else. Literally does the job of two really good developers, can operate independently and think outside the box, comes up with great suggestions, etc. They're out there and will give you a few good years.

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