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Why do Republicans think we should all have short term memory?User Forum Topic
Submitted by sdgrrl on June 22, 2009 - 6:15am
We are six months into a term where its going to take us 6 years if we are lucky to straighten out the mess that was created. People like John, hi there John, want us all to forget the absolute mess that has been handed over to this administration. That somehow all this, every thing wrong with this country must be Obama's and the Democratic parties fault. No John, many of us aren't ready to forget the last few years, because we still feel the destruction from the last few years. How convenient for the Rebub party if yes, we would just get over it. Yes, we should all forget that we are in a money sucking black hole of a war, that people like John hawked. A war, we can say now without looking like a left wing loon was based on downright lies. We lost our reputation...we lost for a moment being known as one of the good guys, because its better to be tough than be right. We should all forget that the previous administration had no idea we where headed off an economic mountain and that never was a spending bill vetoed. We should all forget Bush bragging and trumping up the "rise in home ownership and the viability of the American Dream". Did Bush ever wonder..."Gee, how are suddenly all these people buying homes and getting loans to make me look so damn good"? We should all forget the weird tried and failed power grab by a few Fundamentalist Christians, people like Ted Haggart that had full access to the Bush Admin, and how the separation of Church and State became blurrier and blurrier. We should forget that Cheney wrote the Energy Bill with Energy companies...why not Ken Lay was a good ole' boy who gave good ole' donations. Instead of attacking Dems, what the heck are the Repubs going to do? Who is the leader? What do you stand for aside from knocking everything Obama supports? What does the Repub party want? They had it all not to long ago and I wasn't too impressed. In fact I was pretty disgusted. Sadly, I'm still pretty disgusted. I say keep up the Obama attacks. Keep telling everyone how we should be meddling in Iran right now. That Obama Hussein isn't even legitimate. Keep telling us that we don't need health care reform. He's a Socialist, a Fascist. Keep it up it only helps the other. Obama isn't perfect, but he's working harder in 6 months than I saw Bush work in 8 years. Sorry, it also feels good to be liked again; guess I always was a people pleaser. Hmmm....if we had handed the keys over to MCcain who didn't even acknowledge an economic crisis until he lost poll numbers...? His main economic advisor told us we were simply a nation of whiners...yeah...I'm pretty happy with Obama.
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http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory...
When I see articles like the above, I too am very glad Obama is president. Bringing 'freedom' to other countries is total BS.
Says who? I don't recall a global election.
I never understood the line of thinking. What gives the US the right to intervene in the business of a sovereign nation?
If the rolls were reversed, would his comments be the same?
We are smart not to jump in right now in regards to Iran. Iran doesn't even know exactly what is happening in Iran. The mullah's regime would love it if Obama went "full retard" in his rhetoric, because it would be so easy to kill and silence Iranians who are committing treason by following the orders and wishes of another countries leader. Everything coming out of Lindsay Graham and McCain's mouth reinforces my joy that neither are in the driver's seat right now.
If a hawkish Repub had been elected and came out of the cage in January swinging and threatening Iran and calling it the "Axis of Evil" it would have given their leaders so much ammo during their election, helping their cause and we probably wouldn't be seeing a hopeful new birth of Liberty in the Middle East.
When Bush took office I considered myself a Conservative.
Yes, no doubt tons of new government regulation, increased corporate and individual taxes, and insane spending (that would make even a RINO blush) will get us out of this mess.
Of course we shouldn't get involved in the issues of other countries...
I mean it's not like...
1. A bunch of guys flew planes into two buildings in New York.
2. Or blew up a bunch of trains in Spain.
3. Or just today said if they got Pakistan's nuclear weapons they would use them against us.
4. Or are trying to acquire nuclear weapons and plan to fire a ballistic missile towards Hawaii.
Of course not. If we just stick our heads in the sand and don't activity take a roll in the world today all of these problems will go away.
I mean afterall we should all behave like Neville Chamberlain. That really worked out well for Europe.
The naivity of people never ceases to amaze me.
Look I am no surpport of George Bush. He did plenty wrong. But Obama is trying to use the current situation to push through a huge program of increase government spending and doing it at a time when everybody is more worried about paying their bills then focusing on what Washington is doing.
We *CANNOT* run ourselves in tens of trillions of dollars of debt and expect it to work.
With all that said I think everyone in DC doesn't give a crap about us and that being a politician has become more about getting re-elected than serving the country.
Hey, aside from the Mexican/American War in 1840 no president has ever gone to war, let alone two wars without raising taxes and not only not raising taxes, but actually lowering taxes. Are you serious? Bush wanted his cake and to eat it too. Sorry, that must be Obama's fault too right?
Please please no regulation enforcement! We see how corporations left to their own devices regulate themselves. Yes, in 6 months Obama has destroyed what was once so perfect. Give me a break.
What does this have to do with Iran? What is your point? So if North Koreans started to demonstrate in the streets...that is equatable to 9/11?
The comment that we need to disengage from the rest of the world because we shouldn't be the police-force of the world is naive. And if you let dictatorships run by mad-man run around unchecked you end up with more 9-11 terrorists.
Or as that fellow Burke said some time ago, "For evil to triumph only requires that good men do nothing."
Our wealth as a nation, coupled with a relativist zeitgeist has allowed the elevation of muddle-headed emoting to pass for actual thought. Add to this an ersatz edutocracy, and we have far too many citizens incapable of discerning the difference.
Right now at this very moment we absolutely should not intervene in Iran. Seriously, if Obama ramped up his rhetoric and started denouncing the election all those people in the streets of Tehran would be seen as treasonous against their own country and working on behalf of America. This would give the current regime all the bs reasons they need to be open fire on their own people.
we don't want to give them any other reason to place blame on what is happening other than Iranians are finally fed up with the theocracy in their country. Any other way would be rash and immature. Germany, France and England can say whatever they want, because who really cares in the world arena what they think. The mullah's only care what we think and say.
I mean it's not like...
1. A bunch of guys flew planes into two buildings in New York.
2. Or blew up a bunch of trains in Spain.
3. Or just today said if they got Pakistan's nuclear weapons they would use them against us.
4. Or are trying to acquire nuclear weapons and plan to fire a ballistic missile towards Hawaii.
Of course not. If we just stick our heads in the sand and don't activity take a roll in the world today all of these problems will go away.
I mean afterall we should all behave like Neville Chamberlain. That really worked out well for Europe.
The naivity of people never ceases to amaze me.
Look I am no surpport of George Bush. He did plenty wrong. But Obama is trying to use the current situation to push through a huge program of increase government spending and doing it at a time when everybody is more worried about paying their bills then focusing on what Washington is doing.
We *CANNOT* run ourselves in tens of trillions of dollars of debt and expect it to work.
With all that said I think everyone in DC doesn't give a crap about us and that being a politician has become more about getting re-elected than serving the country.
Dont bother trying to bring this kinda stuff up in a thread like this. That isnt the point of a thread like this. The point of a thread like this is to blow off steam, fingerpoint, get angry, insult "them" and their "lack of understanding or leadership", and get those who agree with you to reinforce your views. Same as the threads it rails against. It is differenton in target of the furry only.
Hopefully these threads serve the purpose that people can then speak civially on othter threads and actually exchange ideas and reason together.
This implies that there is no middle ground between "doing nothing" and absolute all out invasion of a foreign country on false pretenses. The is of course a huge middle ground in our foreign policy responses to various crisis. I suppose around here you're either W (invading Iraq on false pretenses) or you are Chamberlain? Please.
Out of curiosity, which country was it that flew those planes into the WTC? And which country was it that bombed the Spanish trains?
Because we should just bomb that country into oblivion, right?
The issues are not that simple, except to people who take a simplistic view of them. If you could define "get involved" a little better, maybe we could take you more seriously.
I mean it's not like...
1. A bunch of guys flew planes into two buildings in New York.
2. Or blew up a bunch of trains in Spain.
3. Or just today said if they got Pakistan's nuclear weapons they would use them against us.
4. Or are trying to acquire nuclear weapons and plan to fire a ballistic missile towards Hawaii.
Of course not. If we just stick our heads in the sand and don't activity take a roll in the world today all of these problems will go away.
I mean afterall we should all behave like Neville Chamberlain. That really worked out well for Europe.
The naivity of people never ceases to amaze me.
Look I am no surpport of George Bush. He did plenty wrong. But Obama is trying to use the current situation to push through a huge program of increase government spending and doing it at a time when everybody is more worried about paying their bills then focusing on what Washington is doing.
We *CANNOT* run ourselves in tens of trillions of dollars of debt and expect it to work.
With all that said I think everyone in DC doesn't give a crap about us and that being a politician has become more about getting re-elected than serving the country.
Likely, we will have a 15% unemployment rate in CA when all is said and done, if we are not already there. California is our test case for the US as a whole and our new regulatory, tax and spend state. The only thing keeping the federal government propped up is our ability to print and borrow money. This will stop soon, unfortunately.
Liberal policies are predicated on the idea that American businesses are what they once were, but with globalism, we really don't have much anymore. So, like GM and California, liberals have killed our competitiveness and the nation as a whole is next. In sum, globalism would have turn us into England inevitably (no significant manufacturing base, etc.), but liberalism helped to get us there a whole lot quicker.
Likely, sdgirl, you have never employed anyone in CA or met a payroll . . . So you may have not thought about all the burdens to running a business in the US and CA under Democrat rule.
Liberal policies are predicated on the idea that American businesses are what they once were, but with globalism, we really don't have much anymore. So, like GM and California, liberals have killed our competitiveness and the nation as a whole is next. In sum, globalism would have turn us into England inevitably (no significant manufacturing base, etc.), but liberalism helped to get us there a whole lot quicker.
Likely, sdgirl, you have never employed anyone in CA or met a payroll . . . So you may have not thought about all the burdens to running a business in the US and CA under Democrat rule.
I have.
Its not that tough.
It just requires that you be competitive and fork over the money for quickbooks and turbotax.
Most business owners who are complaining about how hard it is should go to some place like Europe or Japan where the gov't subsidizes crappy companies as a matter of ongoing policy (rather than a special bailout). Weeding these pussies out is part of the reason that California's economy can compete with most of Europe's.
Also, being a Euro-style industrial or post-industrial nation is not such a terrible idea (though I would still prefer to live here).
Neither England (not a nation state by the way), nor Switzerland, nor Germany have particularly crappy standards of living.
It really is more complicated than taking Ayn Rand as gospel.
"We agree that the government that governs least governs best and by that measure we have built a great government in Iraq"
-Stephen Colbert
Real-estate right?
Ever tried running a small machine shop or done manufacturing, etc? You want to talk about regulation . . .
Obviously, many business owners in CA are not as nimble, as they are fleeing the state, closing shop, letting people go. My sister-in-law just got laid off from a small firm. Another family member of mine let his employees go, as the compliance and taxes didn't warrant their continued employment and the burden managing them. Out in the I.E., we may approach a 20% real unemployment rate, but the CA legislature is doing nothing to promote growth. In fact, after the largest tax increase in history, they still want to increase taxes.
From my perspective, a taste of what is to come from the federal government. Maybe those millions and millions of green jobs will save us though? I've always wanted a windmill on top of my car.
This implies that there is no middle ground between "doing nothing" and absolute all out invasion of a foreign country on false pretenses. The is of course a huge middle ground in our foreign policy responses to various crisis. I suppose around here you're either W (invading Iraq on false pretenses) or you are Chamberlain? Please.
Or, you are Dave, and incapable of following a thread.
I followed the thread (and its creeping) just fine. It starts with a rant about Republicans, migrates through their dis-satisfaction with Obama's response to Iran, and quickly moves to Chamberlain and "Do nothing" as if we are suddenly now blundering badly in our foreign policy that evil will spread throughout the world because of our inaction. I followed the thread, but the link from A to B was so weak it needed to be pointed out.
Back to the subject of the thread. Our current President has so many messes to clean up, its hardly the place of the party that created most of those messes to chirp about how poorly he's doing in cleaning them all up, or how fast. They really do expect us to have a short term memory. We'll see if we really are better off in four years... after six months we're still feeling the Bush hangover, while some folks are chanting "have another beer". Unless its war or a tax cut for the rich, it really has become the party of no.
Laff.
Clinton left his knee pads in the White House along with specific instructions on how the Chinese like it best. Bush strapped 'em on and went to work. U.S. Corporate interests provided the music and breath mints, as always. Obama has already sent half (seemingly) of his cabinet to China, and I don't think they were there to see the Great Wall. If you need help connecting the dots, look at the historical trade deficit numbers and which U.S. corporations profit from a cheap labor pool.
There is no discernable difference between the world trade policies of the Clinton, Bush, and Obama administrations--"conservative" vs. "liberal" just doesn't enter into it. Follow the money.
Our wealth as a nation, coupled with a relativist zeitgeist has allowed the elevation of muddle-headed emoting to pass for actual thought. Add to this an ersatz edutocracy, and we have far too many citizens incapable of discerning the difference.
Congratulations on the new thesaurus.
I think you're trying to say anyone who doesn't see things your way isn't very bright.
Am I close?
Liberal policies are predicated on the idea that American businesses are what they once were, but with globalism, we really don't have much anymore. So, like GM and California, liberals have killed our competitiveness and the nation as a whole is next. In sum, globalism would have turn us into England inevitably (no significant manufacturing base, etc.), but liberalism helped to get us there a whole lot quicker.
Likely, sdgirl, you have never employed anyone in CA or met a payroll . . . So you may have not thought about all the burdens to running a business in the US and CA under Democrat rule.
Liberals bad...Conservatives good. Liberals wipe out all industry and tax till you eyes pop out. Conservatives are good for business and your soul. Yes, it was all the Liberals fault our dot.com industry fell apart as well as our real estate industry. Liberals will kill the world...did I get it right? Bad bad Liberals.
sdgrrl sounds like an Obama troll.
They must have had an Obama house party this weekend and sent her out all geeked up to defend the "One's" policies on blogs. Or should I say attack anyone who does not drool when they hear his name.
Remember when gandalf called anyone who questioned weather Obama had experience a racist. He said he was a conservative once also.
The problem with conservatives right now is that the different groups of conservatives are at odds with each other (social, fiscal, trade, foreign policy, etc..)
Obama is a smart man, he's a person to look up to as what one can achieve with audacity and brain.
They must have had an Obama house party this weekend and sent her out all geeked up to defend the "One's" policies on blogs. Or should I say attack anyone who does not drool when they hear his name.
Remember when gandalf called anyone who questioned weather Obama had experience a racist. He said he was a conservative once also.
Yes, I'm out to get you all with my Obamagic spell. I'll be marauding, no trolling, to find victims.
Ever tried running a small machine shop or done manufacturing, etc? You want to talk about regulation . . .
Obviously, many business owners in CA are not as nimble, as they are fleeing the state, closing shop, letting people go. My sister-in-law just got laid off from a small firm. Another family member of mine let his employees go, as the compliance and taxes didn't warrant their continued employment and the burden managing them. Out in the I.E., we may approach a 20% real unemployment rate, but the CA legislature is doing nothing to promote growth. In fact, after the largest tax increase in history, they still want to increase taxes.
From my perspective, a taste of what is to come from the federal government. Maybe those millions and millions of green jobs will save us though? I've always wanted a windmill on top of my car.
Real estate, financial holding firm, performance venue, coffee shop, restaurant.
I have a lot of experience in business.
I really don't think that its the taxes that are keeping us down.
Just dropping taxes fixes little right now.
I do think there is a good argument for some deregulation of some industries but deregulation again does little just as a mindless mantra.
The neo-classical view that the economy always achieves the best when left alone flies in the face of reason and centuries of economic history. The credit freezes that riddle our history from 1800 to 1910 are testament to that. It makes more sense to say that sometimes the economy sucks and sometimes the government is in a position to help with that.
If you can't run a business that succeeds, it is a weak argument to say that the government forced you into failure. It reminds me of Hillary (or John McCain or John Kerry or Al Gore) claiming that the media caused them to lose. If you can't play, step back.
"The game is the game"
-Marlo Stanfield
Good ol' Neville. Don't know why he gets such a bad rap. After all, we can now use him as justification to invade any country, at any time, for any reason. We should be honoring him.
These guys had a good conversation about Neville a while back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK0d8ENS__c
(Start at 4:00 if it's too lengthy for ya.)
LOL
"its the appeasement...
appeasement, appeasement...
appeas...
app..
ahhh"
Actually, Dr. Boom, we are talking past each other . . . but probably agree on the trade issue.
On trade issues, other than some populist lip-service by liberals now and again, you can't really tell liberals and conservatives apart, unless you are talking about the far-left (like the anti-IMF protests, etc.).
However, concerning federal and state regulation, environmental laws, state and federal taxes, and unionization, liberals are certainly making American business less competitive and passing trillions of dollars of hidden expenses and taxes on to the US consumer. Whether they are running states or wearing down the management running US car companies, liberals have implemented policies that were premised on American economic superiority, like we had in the 50's, etc.
Unfortunately, now there is too much competition from abroad. So, obviously, our US companies are closing, outsourcing (becoming "multi-national"), and downsizing (or going to business-friendly US states). Also, small businesses and individual owners are now facing similar challenges with increased federal government and state government taxes, especially liberal states like CA, NJ, and NY.
Ultimately, I'd like to start a business, but in the present environment (for a lot of reasons), I'm not too motivated to get things going.
If a hawkish Repub had been elected and came out of the cage in January swinging and threatening Iran and calling it the "Axis of Evil" it would have given their leaders so much ammo during their election, helping their cause and we probably wouldn't be seeing a hopeful new birth of Liberty in the Middle East.
Bomb,Bomb Iran....
The Bush guys wanted to invade iran, now the mullahs are falling