Verona: Potential Mortgage Frauds in Carmel Valley

User Forum Topic
Submitted by KingKong on June 28, 2007 - 2:55pm

Verona is a fill-in project in Carmel Valley. It is surrounded by the Pines community which was built in the mid-80's with zero-lot-line houses in the range of 1700 to 1800 square feet on lots from 4,500 to 6,500 square feet. Currently market prices are around %700K.

Verona houses are all 4 bedrooms, 2.5 to 2.75 bathrooms and 2-car garage. It complete in summer 2006, per their post outside the develop which now is covered over by a tape (if you peel off the tape, you can still see it. If you slant a little bit, you can still see the words "Complete Summer 2006" underneath the tape.) The sticker price is close to 1M. Yet, four houses are already sold with the recorded price at the asking price. Now the advertisement is that only 1 house is available.

Couple of things raised my suspicions:

1. From the table below, you can see that the price actually goes up this year over last year. The house at "12453 Carmel Park Dr." is $60K over asking price in a down market.

Address SF Asking Price Sale Price Sale Date Lot#
12459 2,675 999,900 1,000,000 09-15-2006 5
12465 2,675 985,900 986,000 09-22-2006 3
12469 2,675 999,900 1,000,000 11-01-2006 1
12453 2,675 999,900 1,060,000 02-01-2007 8

12467 2,601 997,900 2
12463 2,377 955,900 4
12457 2,601 997,900 6
12455 2,601 997,900 7

2. I do not have access to mortgage information so I do not know what kind of mortgage they have. However, if you stroll there at night, you have a sense that less than half of the houses are occupied. Almost all of the second stories are dark except for 12459.

I would like somebody like ocrenter to take a look at this and maybe something fishy is going on.

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One more thing, 12465 was
Submitted by KingKong on June 28, 2007 - 3:11pm.

One more thing,

12465 was recorded on 9/22/06 but nobody moved in until end of November.
12469 was recorded on 11/1/06 but people did not move until 2/07.
12453 was recorded on 2/1/07 but people did not move in until 5/07.

Just look it up on the tax
Submitted by Duck on June 28, 2007 - 8:45pm.

Just look it up on the tax rolls.

Duck, What's the URL for
Submitted by KingKong on June 29, 2007 - 11:22am.

Duck,

What's the URL for it?

Thanks.

The Verona sales in the MLS
Submitted by Duck on June 30, 2007 - 8:49am.

The Verona sales in the MLS all have significant down payments so I don't suspect mortgage fraud. The lag in moving in could be for a number of reasons including further improvements the homeowners are making or waiting until their previous home sold, etc.

Thanks Duck. My suspicion is
Submitted by KingKong on July 3, 2007 - 9:50am.

Thanks Duck.

My suspicion is that the large down payment may partially come from the developer.

Here's my reasons:

1. The houses are overpriced by at least 10%. Near Verona there is a recent sale:

4068 Santa Nella Place, 92130.
It has 4 bd/3ba/3 car garage and 2,649sf
for $830,000 with no mello-roos and no HOA fee.

Compare to this, Verona are close to 20% overpriced. It has only 2-car garage and HOA of around $200/month. Also the Verona lots are postage stamp sized, all under 5,000sf.

2. The houses have sit around for a year with no takers. In a down market like we are in now, you would expect a price reduction. Instead, the price has held steady and at least in one case there is a 6% increase.

3. This is a small developer and per their sales people everything is negotiable.

Now 10% drop in the
Submitted by KingKong on October 18, 2007 - 9:12pm.

Now 10% drop in the invincible Carmel Valley

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-071076565-12...

I don't think there is
Submitted by Daniel on October 18, 2007 - 9:20pm.

I don't think there is anything fishy, KK. List prices may have been without options, and sale prices with options (or something to that effect). They sold 7 of the 8 houses when the market wasn't that bad (last year), and they only have to get rid of the last one. For this one, they may obviously have to sweeten the pot (price reduction, freebie upgrades, what have you), but that's about it. Nothing sinister here, me thinks.

Apparently somebody think it
Submitted by KingKong on November 15, 2007 - 9:57am.

Apparently somebody think it worths a lot more now just after a year (bought on 11/1/2006 for $999K and now asking for $1,245K):

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-071088242-12...

Unfortunately the builder still has this beauty on the market, which BTW just reduced:

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-071076565-12...

$1,245,000? Maybe that house
Submitted by zk on November 15, 2007 - 10:25am.

$1,245,000? Maybe that house comes with a few hundred ounces of gold bullion that they don't mention in the ad.

Side by side
Submitted by KingKong on November 15, 2007 - 10:38am.

Side by side comparison:

Location Price Bd/Ba Sq Ft PPSF
12469 Carmel Park Dr $1,245,000 4/3 2,665 $467
12457 Carmel Park Dr $859,900 to $959,900 3/2.5 2,601 $331

With the builder slash its price from $997K to $860K, that's a 14% drop in a year! Instead of running for the cover, our brave seller is still in their dreams. Time to wake up!

The extra half bath is worth
Submitted by 4runner on November 15, 2007 - 11:20am.

The extra half bath is worth at least 250k$.

Looks like this paper
Submitted by KingKong on December 14, 2007 - 3:54pm.

Looks like this paper millionaire forgot to pay his property tax: (this unit was sold for $106K, 60K over builder's asking price)

12453 CARMEL PARK DR 92130
http://arcc.co.san-diego.ca.us/services/...
http://arcc.co.san-diego.ca.us/services/...

The owner is
Savile Holdings LLC

Here's a Veneto laugh for
Submitted by beachykeen on July 8, 2009 - 11:41pm.

Here's a Veneto laugh for you. See MLS #090038970 for the rental listing for 12459 Carmel Park -- listed at 2650 sqft for $3750 per mo.

???????? Looking for a rental in CV is interesting! Would love to know where trustworthy propoerties can be found. ;)