Submitted by sdrealtor on June 26, 2012 - 12:57pm.
How Ironic and timely. I was just packing up my truck for my road trip and thinking how what is happening serves as redemption for the predictions I made 5 to 6 years ago. The permabears and most negative put forth cute theories of how things would play out. Like old time poster Bugs and his Butterfly theory that everything was connected and the distress from the outlying areas would evenutally crush the prime areas just the same. The CAR et al theory that the coast wasnt immune and everyone would eventually get crushed. I argued against it all and get brutalized with rebuttals. The old do you think its different here? Nothing has changed about this area and prices need to go back to 2001 or lower pricing. Well my time to gloat is here and I'm going to.
Here we are at the early stages of a recovery and if nothing else with the worst behind us. The outlying areas got crushed with 50%+ declines and prime NCC areas took less than half that in declines at the most. Many faired even better than that.
Carmel Valley never got hit much more than 15% and prices are at, above or within 5% for most CV single family homes now.
My neighbor sold his house and moved to LC Oaks closing in early 2005 at the height of the frenzy. They just sold their lC Oaks house and after accounting for landscaping a new home still walked away with close to a $100K gain.
Its getting near time for some folks to sneak out the back door with their tails between their legs.
"April home prices in San Diego are 1.8 percent lower than a year ago."
These newest numbers aren't seasonally adjusted. That adjustment would make them look less exciting to those hoping for prices to rise.
PGS
I dont care what the number say as I see exactly what is happening on the street level and always have. Clearly I might add. Prices took a hard hit between Nov and Jan of this year but have come roaring back to where they were last year. Its not so much an increase as it is a definitive shift in momenetum and market psychology. I dont expect huge price gains but when we see the number next Jan compared to this past Jan dont be surprised to see 10% year over year gains. I'm expecting close to that.
Submitted by The-Shoveler on June 26, 2012 - 1:17pm.
sdr, Seriously were you knocking on wood when you hit the send button ?
LOL Now would be the time Europe implodes and takes us with it just because of your post..
Just kidding.
But seriously stop it you’re going to jinx the whole recovery thing.
"April home prices in San Diego are 1.8 percent lower than a year ago."
These newest numbers aren't seasonally adjusted. That adjustment would make them look less exciting to those hoping for prices to rise.
PGS I dont care what the number say as I see exactly what is happening on the street level and always have. Clearly I might add. Prices took a hard hit between Nov and Jan of this year but have come roaring back to where they were last year. Its not so much an increase as it is a definitive shift in momenetum and market psychology. I dont expect huge price gains but when we see the number next Jan compared to this past Jan dont be surprised to see 10% year over year gains. I'm expecting close to that.
LOL - Hope you don't care what the numbers say on the thermometer, either. I saw in another thread that you're headed to Scottsdale. Current temp there is 109.5.
I have cousins and an Aunt in AZ. Not enough $$ in the world to make me visit them during the summer.
Submitted by moneymaker on June 26, 2012 - 9:22pm.
I'm sure in 1933 people felt pretty much the same as the majority of posters here do. Just a thought, recovery could go either way and I doubt the next puppident will make any difference. According to Zillow, I've made more on my house this month than I've lost in the market, that makes me feel a little better. Oh yeah and I can theoretically rent my house for more than I'm paying on my 20 year mortgage. Still not feeling nirvana however, once HPQ hits $40 later this year I'll feel better though.
Only two things really matter. Do you like your home and can you afford it? The rest is just paper gains/losses that only cause lost sleep if you let them
What is there to do in Arizona anyway? Serious question.
Well most people think all of Arizona is like the sonoran desert but if you get into the Mogolian Rim area it cools down dramatically. There great place to visit like Sedona, Prescott, and Flagstaff. AZ is truely one of the most diverse states in the union. Some great places are Slide Rock Park, Havasupi Falls and anywhere on the Mogolian Rim. All of these areas will have far more moderate temperatures than the lowlands. BTW Tucson has to really neat stops for road trips if you can spare a day and are in to aircraft. One is the Pima Air and Space Museum and the other is the Titan Missile Facility.
What is there to do in Arizona anyway? Serious question.
Well most people think all of Arizona is like the sonoran desert but if you get into the Mogolian Rim area it cools down dramatically. There great place to visit like Sedona, Prescott, and Flagstaff. AZ is truely one of the most diverse states in the union. Some great places are Slide Rock Park, Havasupi Falls and anywhere on the Mogolian Rim. All of these areas will have far more moderate temperatures than the lowlands. BTW Tucson has to really neat stops for road trips if you can spare a day and are in to aircraft. One is the Pima Air and Space Museum and the other is the Titan Missile Facility.
How Ironic and timely. I was just packing up my truck for my road trip and thinking how what is happening serves as redemption for the predictions I made 5 to 6 years ago. The permabears and most negative put forth cute theories of how things would play out. Like old time poster Bugs and his Butterfly theory that everything was connected and the distress from the outlying areas would evenutally crush the prime areas just the same. The CAR et al theory that the coast wasnt immune and everyone would eventually get crushed. I argued against it all and get brutalized with rebuttals. The old do you think its different here? Nothing has changed about this area and prices need to go back to 2001 or lower pricing. Well my time to gloat is here and I'm going to.
Here we are at the early stages of a recovery and if nothing else with the worst behind us. The outlying areas got crushed with 50%+ declines and prime NCC areas took less than half that in declines at the most. Many faired even better than that.
Carmel Valley never got hit much more than 15% and prices are at, above or within 5% for most CV single family homes now.
My neighbor sold his house and moved to LC Oaks closing in early 2005 at the height of the frenzy. They just sold their lC Oaks house and after accounting for landscaping a new home still walked away with close to a $100K gain.
Its getting near time for some folks to sneak out the back door with their tails between their legs.
Are you saying that these prices are sustainable if interest rates and inventory levels normalize? Do you think they would be at these levels if not for all the manipulation in the housing and credit markets?
In response to your post in the other thread, I also predicted the manipulations (including the homebuyers' tax credit, rate manipulation, holding foreclosures off the market, and nationalization of the GSEs...years before it actually happened), and have said from the very beginning that I thought we would bottom out in 2012 **IF** the Fed/govt didn't intervene. I have always said that if they manipulated the market, they would only succeed in prolonging the pain, and that it would take many additional years to get through the recession/depression.
You're seeing an anomaly WRT inventory and rates, and you're claiming that we are somehow at the bottom of this cycle? I could not disagree more.
You've won the battle, and you can gloat over your steak and lobster dinner, but you have not won the war. ;)
.......................
These prices are sustainable PERIOD! What it takes to keep them that way and how doesn't matter. They will find a way and I always believed it. People love their homes in this country and TPTB understand that. They will do whatever is necessary to keep people happy now because that will keep them in power.
You are trying to claim both sides of the argument now. Sorry you can't get away with that. You said they wouldn't nor could they be success in propping up the market long enough for time and inflation to do their job. You were the deflationista. Clearly they are, have and will win the war.
Whether or not this is a natural unmanipulated bottom is irrelevant too. A bottom doesn't have to be a natural unmanipulated one. This one isn't and never was going to be.
While the war wages on the winner has already been determined. The gulf war is a good parallel. It was costly, stupid and immoral. Claiming meaningful victories along the way are few and far between. We are still fighting and will be for years but Old Glory will still be flying highest through it all not some Middle Eastern flag.
Thanx for the well wishes. The Grand Canyon is my favorite national park and something everyone in America should see. Pictures do not begin to do it justice.
Only two things really matter. Do you like your home and can you afford it? The rest is just paper gains/losses that only cause lost sleep if you let them
Sorry, but that's completely wrong. Being underwater matters a lot, since you can't sell your home and move, or use the equity to buy another home. Not being able to rent for more than your PITI also matters, since you can't rent the home and (say) relocate temporarily for a year for work or just travel the world. Meaning that you have a whole lot of people who are "tied to the land."
Unfortunately, mortgage writedowns mostly don't allow for rental or resale at the written-down price, so you still end up with a stuck class of people.
Not good. The writedowns, if they happen, should be permanent to allow for mobility.
Both conditions:
(a) not being underwater
(b) being able to rent at a profit
should be true to make an owner happy. Being stuck with a rental property would also suck painfully.
Most desirable areas, I don't think ever was or ever will be cash flow positive from day one or even after a couple of years (assuming conventional 20% down). Being underwater only keep you up at night and make you unhappy if you intend to move. If you bought your dream home or a house you plan to retire in, assuming you can truly afford the place, why would you lose sleep over something that won't affect you.
Yes, being stuck with a rental property that have negative cash flow would suck. But being "stuck" with a rental property that's under water doesn't always suck, especially, if you're cash flowing positive. If you bought a rental that wasn't cash flowing, then this is a lesson you'd have to learn. But again, you're only "stuck" if you're intending to sell.
Speaking for myself, I see ALL real-estate as an investment primarily, rather than a place to live, even if I do happen to live in it. If it doesn't allow me to leave it for a year or for good, it's not worth owning.
What is there to do in Arizona anyway? Serious question.
I've been living here (scottsdale) for a year now. And I haven't been to the outlying areas since i got here (Sedona, Prescott, Flagstaff). Outside of when it's hot (like now), it's a lot like SD without the coast. Which for me, is a lot like going out for a steak dinner at a vegetarian restaurant. The weather for 8 months is pretty much the same as there. It's way less expensive. But I can't figure out wtf people see about this place to make it a vacation destination.
That said, its a pretty livable city. Good restaurants. Easy to learn your way around. Gotta get used to the summer weather, much like winter weather in the east. Except i can go out to pick up my morning paper (if i got one) in my boxers instead of 4 layers of clothing. It's 9:00 AM and 96. Will hit 110 by 4:00 this afternoon. But much like my oven, its dry heat.
The Grand Canyon is my favorite national park and something everyone in America should see. Pictures do not begin to do it justice.
No words, photos, pictures, audio or video can give anyone appropriate expectations for the Grand Canyon.
I have found two things in the world that you cannot prepare someone for. One is the Grand Canyon. The other is a top fuel drag race.
Regarding things to do in AZ:
To summarize, the things you can do in Arizona are touristy things that involve experiencing nature. CDMA Eng is right about the diversity. Desert in the south. Pine trees and canyons in the north.
We spent our Winter vacation camping outside of Tucson a couple years ago so I was a tourist in my home town and we had a great time.
Karchner caverns are spectacular - spectacular cave with a spectacular story. Kitt Peak National Observatory - go for the night visit, a little boring for the kids. Saguaro National Park (not too exciting). Sonoran Desert Museum. Titan Missles. Biosphere (pretty lame, but it is something to see). Hiking in Sabino Canyon. Hiking galore. I know of an abandoned marble quarry on private property that is amazing near Bode.
That's just Tucson. There's the Grand Canyon. Painted Desert. Petrified Forest. Meteor Crater. Walnut Canyon. Four Corners (so lame, it's worth seeing how lame it is). Salt River rafting. Off-roading in all sorts of terrain. Lots of Mines. Canyon De Chelly. Boating on the Colorado river. Everyone should see the town of Jerome, built on the side of a hill. Don't forget the world-class gem and mineral show every Feb. There's a water park in Phoenix. Frank Lloyd-Wright buildings. High-end resorts in Scottsdale. Golfing, of course.
Arizona is a great place to visit and a great place to be from. I realize now that it is very unique place. Nearly everyone who visits finds it fascinating as long as they go in the Winter.
Submitted by bearishgurl on June 27, 2012 - 9:55am.
sdrealtor wrote:
...Thanx for the well wishes. The Grand Canyon is my favorite national park and something everyone in America should see. Pictures do not begin to do it justice.
Hopefully, you will be able to ride camels . . . I mean, mules. Just don't look down :=0
Submitted by bearishgurl on June 27, 2012 - 10:14am.
sdduuuude wrote:
sdrealtor wrote:
The Grand Canyon is my favorite national park and something everyone in America should see. Pictures do not begin to do it justice.
No words, photos, pictures, audio or video can give anyone appropriate expectations for the Grand Canyon.
I have found two things in the world that you cannot prepare someone for. One is the Grand Canyon. The other is a top fuel drag race.
Regarding things to do in AZ:
To summarize, the things you can do in Arizona are touristy things that involve experiencing nature. CDMA Eng is right about the diversity. Desert in the south. Pine trees and canyons in the north.
We spent our Winter vacation camping outside of Tucson a couple years ago so I was a tourist in my home town and we had a great time.
Karchner caverns are spectacular - spectacular cave with a spectacular story. Kitt Peak National Observatory - go for the night visit, a little boring for the kids. Saguaro National Park (not too exciting). Sonoran Desert Museum. Titan Missles. Biosphere (pretty lame, but it is something to see). Hiking in Sabino Canyon. Hiking galore. I know of an abandoned marble quarry on private property that is amazing near Bode.
That's just Tucson. There's the Grand Canyon. Painted Desert. Petrified Forest. Meteor Crater. Walnut Canyon. Four Corners (so lame, it's worth seeing how lame it is). Salt River rafting. Off-roading in all sorts of terrain. Lots of Mines. Canyon De Chelly. Boating on the Colorado river. Everyone should see the town of Jerome, built on the side of a hill. Don't forget the world-class gem and mineral show every Feb. There's a water park in Phoenix. Frank Lloyd-Wright buildings. High-end resorts in Scottsdale. Golfing, of course.
Arizona is a great place to visit and a great place to be from. I realize now that it is very unique place. Nearly everyone who visits finds it fascinating as long as they go in the Winter.
Yes, sdduuuude, I've been all thru AZ dozens of times but only on the road. I went thru the four corners last summer and it really IS lame, lol. I haven't seen any of the places you mention here but thinking about spending the night in Tucson on my way back home later this summer/early fall. There might be time to do something the next morning before hitting the road to SD (6 hrs??).
Definitely, my favorite areas are Flagstaff and Sedona. I'd like to try the tram in Sedona when I have the opportunity and also get a mud bath. I've been thru Flagstaff in the winter a few times as well and luv the snow piled up high on the sides of the road. Also luv the blue/green look of the pine trees in a (summer) windy rainstorm :) I think Flagstaff would be a really nice place to retire. Unfortunately, a lot of other boomers and beyond from CA and the west thought so, too, because it isn't cheap anymore to buy a decent house there, even a smallish one :=0
I like to be around people and culture more than nature. Hence AZ is not attractive to me. For nature, I can watch National Geographic. I'd rather be walking around in NY than lounge by the pool at a Scottsdale resort.
Or maybe it's because I don't have kids who would enjoy road trips.
The Grand Canyon is nice. I think it's best to fly over it by helicopter from Vegas. Saves time.
One learns to cope with the weather. I currently spend half my days working on my Yuma area apartments, staying in one of them. Temperatures in the early morning can be low 70s on a day when it will hit 110. That's the coastal effect, which doesn't extend to Phoenix. Work hard in a.m., eat lunch, take nap, then stay inside. Rinse, repeat.
Yes, everything is cheaper in AZ such as gasoline @ $.30 less. So time your fuel level to hit Yuma when close to empty, and fill up in Yuma when leaving AZ for CA.
Pretty much agree with the spectrum of comments regarding AZ. Even though we kept our home in San Diego, we lived in Scottsdale for a few years, and have kept some rentals there.
IMO, Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, Cave Creek and Carefree are probably some of the best areas in which to live in AZ. As SK mentioned, very upscale, lots to do, great restaurants, shopping, golf, great medical facilities, etc., etc.
Loved traveling all over the state when we were there, with all of the natural beauty and various attractions--so it's well worth a trip, at least once in your life.
After college, lots of our kids friends had to move to AZ--and other states--because they couldn't find jobs in CA, or couldn't afford to live here when they left their parent's homes.
As I know I've said before, we always seem to gravitate back to San Diego, regardless of where else we've lived. Even when we spent 5 years in Hawaii, we couldn't wait to get back here, and I'm sure others feel the same.
I like to be around people and culture more than nature. Hence AZ is not attractive to me. For nature, I can watch National Geographic. I'd rather be walking around in NY than lounge by the pool at a Scottsdale resort.
Or maybe it's because I don't have kids who would enjoy road trips.
The Grand Canyon is nice. I think it's best to fly over it by helicopter from Vegas. Saves time.
Sduuude hit the nail on the head. Nothing can prepare you for seeing it in person. You pull into the parking lot and are less than 100 ft away and still can't see it. Then you walk to the rim and it knocks you over. A helicopter flight would be cool but nothing comes close to hiking to the bottom and spending a night or two at the Phantom Ranch. It's not a hike for the weak and many folks have not made it out alive. My kids aren't old enough yet but some day I hope to share a hike down the Bright Angel trail with them. It should be on everyone's bucket list.
"April home prices in San Diego are 1.8 percent lower than a year ago."
These newest numbers aren't seasonally adjusted. That adjustment would make them look less exciting to those hoping for prices to rise.
How Ironic and timely. I was just packing up my truck for my road trip and thinking how what is happening serves as redemption for the predictions I made 5 to 6 years ago. The permabears and most negative put forth cute theories of how things would play out. Like old time poster Bugs and his Butterfly theory that everything was connected and the distress from the outlying areas would evenutally crush the prime areas just the same. The CAR et al theory that the coast wasnt immune and everyone would eventually get crushed. I argued against it all and get brutalized with rebuttals. The old do you think its different here? Nothing has changed about this area and prices need to go back to 2001 or lower pricing. Well my time to gloat is here and I'm going to.
Here we are at the early stages of a recovery and if nothing else with the worst behind us. The outlying areas got crushed with 50%+ declines and prime NCC areas took less than half that in declines at the most. Many faired even better than that.
Carmel Valley never got hit much more than 15% and prices are at, above or within 5% for most CV single family homes now.
My neighbor sold his house and moved to LC Oaks closing in early 2005 at the height of the frenzy. They just sold their lC Oaks house and after accounting for landscaping a new home still walked away with close to a $100K gain.
Its getting near time for some folks to sneak out the back door with their tails between their legs.
These newest numbers aren't seasonally adjusted. That adjustment would make them look less exciting to those hoping for prices to rise.
PGS
I dont care what the number say as I see exactly what is happening on the street level and always have. Clearly I might add. Prices took a hard hit between Nov and Jan of this year but have come roaring back to where they were last year. Its not so much an increase as it is a definitive shift in momenetum and market psychology. I dont expect huge price gains but when we see the number next Jan compared to this past Jan dont be surprised to see 10% year over year gains. I'm expecting close to that.
sdr, Seriously were you knocking on wood when you hit the send button ?
LOL Now would be the time Europe implodes and takes us with it just because of your post..
Just kidding.
But seriously stop it you’re going to jinx the whole recovery thing.
These newest numbers aren't seasonally adjusted. That adjustment would make them look less exciting to those hoping for prices to rise.
PGS
I dont care what the number say as I see exactly what is happening on the street level and always have. Clearly I might add. Prices took a hard hit between Nov and Jan of this year but have come roaring back to where they were last year. Its not so much an increase as it is a definitive shift in momenetum and market psychology. I dont expect huge price gains but when we see the number next Jan compared to this past Jan dont be surprised to see 10% year over year gains. I'm expecting close to that.
LOL - Hope you don't care what the numbers say on the thermometer, either. I saw in another thread that you're headed to Scottsdale. Current temp there is 109.5.
I have cousins and an Aunt in AZ. Not enough $$ in the world to make me visit them during the summer.
Wandering around deserts in the Summer is in my ancestral bloodlines:)
I'm sure all those AriDzona hotels/motels must be pretty cheap about now.
What is there to do in Arizona anyway? Serious question.
I'm sure in 1933 people felt pretty much the same as the majority of posters here do. Just a thought, recovery could go either way and I doubt the next puppident will make any difference. According to Zillow, I've made more on my house this month than I've lost in the market, that makes me feel a little better. Oh yeah and I can theoretically rent my house for more than I'm paying on my 20 year mortgage. Still not feeling nirvana however, once HPQ hits $40 later this year I'll feel better though.
Only two things really matter. Do you like your home and can you afford it? The rest is just paper gains/losses that only cause lost sleep if you let them
Well most people think all of Arizona is like the sonoran desert but if you get into the Mogolian Rim area it cools down dramatically. There great place to visit like Sedona, Prescott, and Flagstaff. AZ is truely one of the most diverse states in the union. Some great places are Slide Rock Park, Havasupi Falls and anywhere on the Mogolian Rim. All of these areas will have far more moderate temperatures than the lowlands. BTW Tucson has to really neat stops for road trips if you can spare a day and are in to aircraft. One is the Pima Air and Space Museum and the other is the Titan Missile Facility.
CE
Well most people think all of Arizona is like the sonoran desert but if you get into the Mogolian Rim area it cools down dramatically. There great place to visit like Sedona, Prescott, and Flagstaff. AZ is truely one of the most diverse states in the union. Some great places are Slide Rock Park, Havasupi Falls and anywhere on the Mogolian Rim. All of these areas will have far more moderate temperatures than the lowlands. BTW Tucson has to really neat stops for road trips if you can spare a day and are in to aircraft. One is the Pima Air and Space Museum and the other is the Titan Missile Facility.
CE
Did not know.... Now I do....
Here we are at the early stages of a recovery and if nothing else with the worst behind us. The outlying areas got crushed with 50%+ declines and prime NCC areas took less than half that in declines at the most. Many faired even better than that.
Carmel Valley never got hit much more than 15% and prices are at, above or within 5% for most CV single family homes now.
My neighbor sold his house and moved to LC Oaks closing in early 2005 at the height of the frenzy. They just sold their lC Oaks house and after accounting for landscaping a new home still walked away with close to a $100K gain.
Its getting near time for some folks to sneak out the back door with their tails between their legs.
Are you saying that these prices are sustainable if interest rates and inventory levels normalize? Do you think they would be at these levels if not for all the manipulation in the housing and credit markets?
In response to your post in the other thread, I also predicted the manipulations (including the homebuyers' tax credit, rate manipulation, holding foreclosures off the market, and nationalization of the GSEs...years before it actually happened), and have said from the very beginning that I thought we would bottom out in 2012 **IF** the Fed/govt didn't intervene. I have always said that if they manipulated the market, they would only succeed in prolonging the pain, and that it would take many additional years to get through the recession/depression.
You're seeing an anomaly WRT inventory and rates, and you're claiming that we are somehow at the bottom of this cycle? I could not disagree more.
You've won the battle, and you can gloat over your steak and lobster dinner, but you have not won the war. ;)
.......................
BTW, have a fun trip. :)
These prices are sustainable PERIOD! What it takes to keep them that way and how doesn't matter. They will find a way and I always believed it. People love their homes in this country and TPTB understand that. They will do whatever is necessary to keep people happy now because that will keep them in power.
You are trying to claim both sides of the argument now. Sorry you can't get away with that. You said they wouldn't nor could they be success in propping up the market long enough for time and inflation to do their job. You were the deflationista. Clearly they are, have and will win the war.
Whether or not this is a natural unmanipulated bottom is irrelevant too. A bottom doesn't have to be a natural unmanipulated one. This one isn't and never was going to be.
While the war wages on the winner has already been determined. The gulf war is a good parallel. It was costly, stupid and immoral. Claiming meaningful victories along the way are few and far between. We are still fighting and will be for years but Old Glory will still be flying highest through it all not some Middle Eastern flag.
Thanx for the well wishes. The Grand Canyon is my favorite national park and something everyone in America should see. Pictures do not begin to do it justice.
Sorry, but that's completely wrong. Being underwater matters a lot, since you can't sell your home and move, or use the equity to buy another home. Not being able to rent for more than your PITI also matters, since you can't rent the home and (say) relocate temporarily for a year for work or just travel the world. Meaning that you have a whole lot of people who are "tied to the land."
Unfortunately, mortgage writedowns mostly don't allow for rental or resale at the written-down price, so you still end up with a stuck class of people.
Not good. The writedowns, if they happen, should be permanent to allow for mobility.
Context matters. The person I was responding to said he could rent his house and cover his costs with a 20 yr mortgage.
Both conditions:
(a) not being underwater
(b) being able to rent at a profit
should be true to make an owner happy. Being stuck with a rental property would also suck painfully.
(a) not being underwater
(b) being able to rent at a profit
should be true to make an owner happy. Being stuck with a rental property would also suck painfully.
Most desirable areas, I don't think ever was or ever will be cash flow positive from day one or even after a couple of years (assuming conventional 20% down). Being underwater only keep you up at night and make you unhappy if you intend to move. If you bought your dream home or a house you plan to retire in, assuming you can truly afford the place, why would you lose sleep over something that won't affect you.
Yes, being stuck with a rental property that have negative cash flow would suck. But being "stuck" with a rental property that's under water doesn't always suck, especially, if you're cash flowing positive. If you bought a rental that wasn't cash flowing, then this is a lesson you'd have to learn. But again, you're only "stuck" if you're intending to sell.
Speaking for myself, I see ALL real-estate as an investment primarily, rather than a place to live, even if I do happen to live in it. If it doesn't allow me to leave it for a year or for good, it's not worth owning.
I've been living here (scottsdale) for a year now. And I haven't been to the outlying areas since i got here (Sedona, Prescott, Flagstaff). Outside of when it's hot (like now), it's a lot like SD without the coast. Which for me, is a lot like going out for a steak dinner at a vegetarian restaurant. The weather for 8 months is pretty much the same as there. It's way less expensive. But I can't figure out wtf people see about this place to make it a vacation destination.
That said, its a pretty livable city. Good restaurants. Easy to learn your way around. Gotta get used to the summer weather, much like winter weather in the east. Except i can go out to pick up my morning paper (if i got one) in my boxers instead of 4 layers of clothing. It's 9:00 AM and 96. Will hit 110 by 4:00 this afternoon. But much like my oven, its dry heat.
Have been to AZ many time and I agree with SK. I would not consider AZ as a vacation home. The Phoenix area has lots of hotel resorts.
Sedona has beautiful rocks but i don't feel any magic there. The place is overun with tourists and tourist traps.
AZ is good if you like nature when the weather permit you to be outside.
No words, photos, pictures, audio or video can give anyone appropriate expectations for the Grand Canyon.
I have found two things in the world that you cannot prepare someone for. One is the Grand Canyon. The other is a top fuel drag race.
Regarding things to do in AZ:
To summarize, the things you can do in Arizona are touristy things that involve experiencing nature. CDMA Eng is right about the diversity. Desert in the south. Pine trees and canyons in the north.
We spent our Winter vacation camping outside of Tucson a couple years ago so I was a tourist in my home town and we had a great time.
Karchner caverns are spectacular - spectacular cave with a spectacular story. Kitt Peak National Observatory - go for the night visit, a little boring for the kids. Saguaro National Park (not too exciting). Sonoran Desert Museum. Titan Missles. Biosphere (pretty lame, but it is something to see). Hiking in Sabino Canyon. Hiking galore. I know of an abandoned marble quarry on private property that is amazing near Bode.
That's just Tucson. There's the Grand Canyon. Painted Desert. Petrified Forest. Meteor Crater. Walnut Canyon. Four Corners (so lame, it's worth seeing how lame it is). Salt River rafting. Off-roading in all sorts of terrain. Lots of Mines. Canyon De Chelly. Boating on the Colorado river. Everyone should see the town of Jerome, built on the side of a hill. Don't forget the world-class gem and mineral show every Feb. There's a water park in Phoenix. Frank Lloyd-Wright buildings. High-end resorts in Scottsdale. Golfing, of course.
Arizona is a great place to visit and a great place to be from. I realize now that it is very unique place. Nearly everyone who visits finds it fascinating as long as they go in the Winter.
Hopefully, you will be able to ride camels . . . I mean, mules. Just don't look down :=0
No words, photos, pictures, audio or video can give anyone appropriate expectations for the Grand Canyon.
I have found two things in the world that you cannot prepare someone for. One is the Grand Canyon. The other is a top fuel drag race.
Regarding things to do in AZ:
To summarize, the things you can do in Arizona are touristy things that involve experiencing nature. CDMA Eng is right about the diversity. Desert in the south. Pine trees and canyons in the north.
We spent our Winter vacation camping outside of Tucson a couple years ago so I was a tourist in my home town and we had a great time.
Karchner caverns are spectacular - spectacular cave with a spectacular story. Kitt Peak National Observatory - go for the night visit, a little boring for the kids. Saguaro National Park (not too exciting). Sonoran Desert Museum. Titan Missles. Biosphere (pretty lame, but it is something to see). Hiking in Sabino Canyon. Hiking galore. I know of an abandoned marble quarry on private property that is amazing near Bode.
That's just Tucson. There's the Grand Canyon. Painted Desert. Petrified Forest. Meteor Crater. Walnut Canyon. Four Corners (so lame, it's worth seeing how lame it is). Salt River rafting. Off-roading in all sorts of terrain. Lots of Mines. Canyon De Chelly. Boating on the Colorado river. Everyone should see the town of Jerome, built on the side of a hill. Don't forget the world-class gem and mineral show every Feb. There's a water park in Phoenix. Frank Lloyd-Wright buildings. High-end resorts in Scottsdale. Golfing, of course.
Arizona is a great place to visit and a great place to be from. I realize now that it is very unique place. Nearly everyone who visits finds it fascinating as long as they go in the Winter.
Yes, sdduuuude, I've been all thru AZ dozens of times but only on the road. I went thru the four corners last summer and it really IS lame, lol. I haven't seen any of the places you mention here but thinking about spending the night in Tucson on my way back home later this summer/early fall. There might be time to do something the next morning before hitting the road to SD (6 hrs??).
Definitely, my favorite areas are Flagstaff and Sedona. I'd like to try the tram in Sedona when I have the opportunity and also get a mud bath. I've been thru Flagstaff in the winter a few times as well and luv the snow piled up high on the sides of the road. Also luv the blue/green look of the pine trees in a (summer) windy rainstorm :) I think Flagstaff would be a really nice place to retire. Unfortunately, a lot of other boomers and beyond from CA and the west thought so, too, because it isn't cheap anymore to buy a decent house there, even a smallish one :=0
I like to be around people and culture more than nature. Hence AZ is not attractive to me. For nature, I can watch National Geographic. I'd rather be walking around in NY than lounge by the pool at a Scottsdale resort.
Or maybe it's because I don't have kids who would enjoy road trips.
The Grand Canyon is nice. I think it's best to fly over it by helicopter from Vegas. Saves time.
And don't forget Davis-Monthan AFB...
One learns to cope with the weather. I currently spend half my days working on my Yuma area apartments, staying in one of them. Temperatures in the early morning can be low 70s on a day when it will hit 110. That's the coastal effect, which doesn't extend to Phoenix. Work hard in a.m., eat lunch, take nap, then stay inside. Rinse, repeat.
Yes, everything is cheaper in AZ such as gasoline @ $.30 less. So time your fuel level to hit Yuma when close to empty, and fill up in Yuma when leaving AZ for CA.
Pretty much agree with the spectrum of comments regarding AZ. Even though we kept our home in San Diego, we lived in Scottsdale for a few years, and have kept some rentals there.
IMO, Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, Cave Creek and Carefree are probably some of the best areas in which to live in AZ. As SK mentioned, very upscale, lots to do, great restaurants, shopping, golf, great medical facilities, etc., etc.
Loved traveling all over the state when we were there, with all of the natural beauty and various attractions--so it's well worth a trip, at least once in your life.
After college, lots of our kids friends had to move to AZ--and other states--because they couldn't find jobs in CA, or couldn't afford to live here when they left their parent's homes.
As I know I've said before, we always seem to gravitate back to San Diego, regardless of where else we've lived. Even when we spent 5 years in Hawaii, we couldn't wait to get back here, and I'm sure others feel the same.
Or maybe it's because I don't have kids who would enjoy road trips.
The Grand Canyon is nice. I think it's best to fly over it by helicopter from Vegas. Saves time.
Sduuude hit the nail on the head. Nothing can prepare you for seeing it in person. You pull into the parking lot and are less than 100 ft away and still can't see it. Then you walk to the rim and it knocks you over. A helicopter flight would be cool but nothing comes close to hiking to the bottom and spending a night or two at the Phantom Ranch. It's not a hike for the weak and many folks have not made it out alive. My kids aren't old enough yet but some day I hope to share a hike down the Bright Angel trail with them. It should be on everyone's bucket list.
This post has officially been hijacked into what to do in Arizona. Funny!