San Diego Housing Bubble News and Analysis

Can you repost the link to the "guy who made out like a fiend".....AlLso those areas of Carmel Valley selling fo $250/sq ft.are pretty much far out there to the east.....

Hey FLU,

Sorry for not being precise on CV homes. I was hoping for the ones in CV school district. The ones you posted are in Poway school district which in my opinion is not the same as the ones in your neighbor or in Carriage Run area. Nice try.

sfexporter

I believe this one that was auctioned of below 700 is though..... Agreed though, you won't find 250/sqft in CVSD (yet)

http://bubbletracking.blogspot.com/2008/...

FLU - There is some weird story going on with 13104 Chambord. Behind the scenes/under the table before it even went to the courthouse.

What I can't figure out is how the hell did it sell on the steps for 690k? I'm pretty certain the loan on first was more than 690k.

Sorry guys there is nothing wierd going on with Chambord. I know both the investor who bought it at the trustee sale for 690k and I represented the buyers who bought it from him.

They got a good deal and the investor made out very nicely as well. The first loan was not for more then 690k it was for 650k and the second was for 300k.

SDR - I meant something weird BEFORE it went to the courthouse steps, not after. Sorry if I was not clear. I know there was something shady in the purchases and sales beforehand and no surprise it went to the courthouse steps.

What did surprise me is it selling for 690k b/c I thought the loan was greater than 690k. Thanks for clearing that up. Now it makes sense.

edit:

Because of the nature of the transactions BEFORE the courthouse steps sale, I am suspicious of who bought it, as well. Clearly picked it up on the cheap and sold immediately for a very nice profit.

I thought the first was greater than 690. My mistake. I figured there was a second for 20%. That's usually the norm, right? So, naturally I find it odd that the second is greater than 20%. Wonder why.

Makes me think since the owners planned on defaulting, they took a greater second to facilitate another "investor" to purchase on the first for less.

Sorry for going on. I was pretty upset when I learned about what happened before the courthouse steps. They intentionally did not pay, after they sold it to each other for a profit.

It was all questionable. Buy from builder in December, sell to girlfriend in February for 100k more, girlfriend defaults and goes back to bank. It was all orchestrated and done very well.

Sure would like to know who the parties of "13104 Chambord trust" are. Probably many people pitching in to buy on the cheap and flip for profit. Nothing wrong, of course w/that. But if the original owners are involved somehow, well, I'm suspicious and leave it at that.

See this is the main problem with some sites. Reading all of the aggro posts on the bubbletracking site was fairly laughable.

The couple that bought this home got a great deal compared to the comps. Do they know the market is going down? Yes. Do they know where the bottom is? No. Had they shopped for several months before they made the purchase? Of course. Does this couple have money to be able to afford the purchase? Yes. Did they simply want the home for other reasons then trying to find a bottom of the market? Yes. Did they know the market very well? Yes.

Furthermore reading the posts on bubble tracking it was especially refreshing to read all of the asian and even indian inferences. No racism there eh? None not at all.

It is freaking laughable and I have lost a good deal of respect, not for the author of the site but for the posters.

Once again, there seems to be a this stubborness by others to understand that unfortunately, there are people who live here in San Diego, who have more money then they do, and are willing to buy a home (or homes) with it. Many of these people and others like them, can actually afford to do this regardless of many factors including the economy. Yes these people make it harder for wannabe buyers like me but then I guess it sucks to be me or us. However hurling epitaphs about asians and indians sucking up carmel valley homes goes beyond stupidity and normal bitterness of being priced out of a market.

As far as what happened between the previous owners, I am not sure about that. Tell me, can you validate the information that the person that bought it from the builder sold to his girlfriend? I was wondering where this was found.

JP the Chambord Trust is the trust that was set up by the investors who bought the home at trustee sales. They ALWAYS do that when they purchase because when they flip it that limits liability to the trust. I can assure you that I KNOW WHO IS IN Chambord Trust and they are not the original owners nor are they anyone to do with them. In fact I WOULD LOVE to have been in the Chambord Trust. It is a small group.

Actually the investors were lucky. The home was in the middle of the short sale process. The lender bungled it up as usual and WHILE the process was happening someone forgot to postpone the NOT. The listing agent was boned and caught by surprise. Tough beans for them. The investors did well.

I had posted a few months back about some excellent opportunities of trustee sales but I guess not many people got the hint.

I understand where you are coming from but try not to believe everything you see or read on the net. Also what WILL be more enraging to me are the fact that owners like these may/could/will get bailed out.

I know who the original owner in December is. Not personally. Don't socialize. Just know who he is. I know the name of his girlfriend. Never met her. Wouldn't have any idea who she is if she were standing in the same room w/me. Just know her name.

The person who bought it in December sold it to his girlfriend in February for 100k more than he originally bought it for just 2 months earlier.

They both have pretty good jobs. I can only conclude they intentionally defaulted. Unfortunately, that's all I can say right now, but when I find out more, I'll post somewhere when I can, either here or BMIT or SDL. Suffice it to say there is much more to the story, just trust me. I just don't want to post anything further until I'm sure and have more facts.

I have no qualms w/whoever purchased it from the "Trust" that acquired it at the steps. If they can afford it, then good for them.

Edited

You know SDR, if I wasn't such a clown and so damn opinionated here on this blog, I would have actually wanted to know you in person. Simply because, you seem to be one of the few people that are pretty well connected in what's going on in the RE market, and I could have used some of those hints in the trustee sales information. At this point, I only wish I could have been more quiet and subtle around here so that I could sought more of your insight into these trustee sales. Sometimes when your personality on a blog takes a life of it's own, it's sort of embarrassing to be in person :)

Regarding the asian/indian comments...
Anyway, I think actually ocrenter is asian...The comments about the "asian/indians" are clueless about the housing market....Well, it might be partly true...But like you said, some don't try to calculate to the last penny when it comes to the primary, because again it's the entire family/kid first thing again...

Pardon the ignorance jpinpb and SDR, can you explain how this particular trustee say went down if more info is available? I'm kind of curious. that $690k sale was a steal...

I'm sorry to be vague. I don't have a lot of details. I heard the original December buyer was officially being questioned involving something and I suspect it may involve something other than this particular property, but I'm not sure. That's pretty much all I know. I may never know more. I just know there's something else going on and I don't want to spread rumors or be defamatory. There's just more to it. I'm as curious as you, FLU.

JP no apologies needed at all. I am curious what you mean by the original December buyer.

I can tell you what happened with the original listing that was handled by JoAnn Moss and Sandra Smith over at Red Carpet. They had the listing back in March of 2008. I have worked with them before and have known them to be good agents. Anyways my client actually had made an offer to them when they had the listing as a short sale but they declined it. They had another offer and were working on it with the negotiator at the lender. As I said, someone in loss mitigation failed to inform someone in legal that the short sale was being negotiatied. The home went to foreclosure pretty much unbeknowest to anyone, the listing agent or the seller.

Now as for the buyer at the trust sale, the listing agent actually is the guy or one of the guys who runs it all. He established the Chambord trust. Like I said, he establishes unique trusts for each property he purchases for liability purchases. This one pretty much fell into his lap. He was amazed that it went to trustee sale as well. As for the pricing at trustee sale I do not know what the opening bid was, he wouldn't tell me.

As for the sales price of 820k which was well below comps, as you know I give all of my buyers commission rebates. Some use the rebate to pay for closing costs, some ask me to have the seller reduce the sales price by the amount of the rebate. My client also had a relatively quick escrow.

Just a sidenote on the guy that does this stuff and his groups. This particular sale was a gem for him and his group. However he told me about a few other deals that are indeed pretty nightmarish. Properties tied up in litigation for months even longer, and in those cases he (and his investors) carry the cost. Make no mistake though he is doing well. I made what I thought were a few decent recommendations to him and he shot most of them down but one he did like. I got a thank you out of it...

JP as for something going on... well perhaps there was with either the original guy who purchased from the builder or the person he sold it to.. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there was because I noticed in 2006 the property was listed for sale for all of 12 days and then it was cancelled. Then the property sold in February of 07 at 950k so yes something could have definitely gone down. However once more as for anything regarding the trustee sale, the short sale attempt before that, or the final sale that recently closed it was all above board.

As for OCR he is a good guy, it was just some of the comments on that thread that were VERY disheartening. I think I will post on it to try to enlighten them.

The house was bought in December from the builder. That's who I mean by the December buyer. He then turned around 2 months later and sold it to his girlfriend. Then it went to foreclosure.

I hate to say it was all planned down to foreclosure, but when something like this happens, it does raise an eyebrow. They both work and they didn't pay on the house. Fine. Their perogative. They can according the contract give the house back to the bank. But all of it from the very first purchase in December smells fraudulent.

So this foreclosure happens when it really shouldn't have and was an accident b/c someone fell asleep at the wheel and it worked out for the Chambord Trust. May be all legitimate and they got lucky. I have no facts regarding that. I'll take your word on that.

I just found out that the December purchaser was being questioned and I don't have the details, but it's pretty serious.

I am not saying anything was wrong with the last purchase of 820k.

I actually emailed the address to OC to point out the sketchy history and the successful flip. But the blog went on a tangent. They grow a life of their own.

EDIT:

And so reading the New type of real estate fraud thread, it just raises my suspicions.

So my question was, how did you find out that the second sale for 950k went from the original buyer to his girlfriend? Is this a fact?

The bottom line is that in the end, if this was fraud then I am very glad the home went to foreclosure. Would it have been better for the homeowners to get bailed out?

It seems to me that this indeed is the very best thing that can indeed happen to hucksters.

As for it being planned down to the foreclosure, it may very well have been. However, how many people do you think purchased in 2005 or 2006 with the intent to flip? Do you think, "only a few"? What difference does it make now? The bottom line is that people like you and me are priced out because of behavior like this. It doesn't matter if it was an intended foreclosure, or fraud or not fraud or whatever.

Just try to stick to the facts you know what I am saying? The fact that blogs take on a life of thier own is EXACTLY why you should stick to the facts. What was an entire 35 post thread on BMIT is essentially based on what? That you know of a buyer of a home from the builder who is being questioned? That he sold the home to his girlfriend? (Which I am still wondering about how you know this as a fact). Yet then there are wild accusations about the trustee sale and then the sale after the trustee sale? I mean really now... All I can do is shake my head.

SDR - Yes. It's a FACT. I know the guy who bought from the builder and found out the name of the girlfriend (Jody H). The second sale went to girlfriend. They basically got 100k from the bank after a couple of months. Then they sat in the home until the bank foreclosed.

I am just sticking to the facts I know. There is more I know, but do not think it would be appropriate to discuss it here. There is more w/regard to the first buyer that I recently found out.

As far as the courthouse steps, you in your own post said it was a short-sale and then someone dropped the ball and it didn't get postponed as it was supposed to and the Chambord Trust picked it up. This is a fact according to you.

Maybe this is something that commonly occurs. I was not aware of that. No wild accusation. You said yourself they got lucky.

I did not post any rumors. What I post is what I know. I knew it got sold to a third-party on the courthouse steps and it got flipped for 820k. That's it.

Edit: Are you saying Jody is not the girlfriend? Do you know the original December buyer?

Actually, I didn't read the comments until now. I just read the article. Wow. It looks like world war 3 down there. OH well... What I want to know, is how do people find good deals like this. I guess you have to be a pro and somewhat lucky....
I didn't suspect it was fraud, I was just wondering how do people find such good deals. SDR, your comment helped clarify this. Pros/investor groups.

Frankly, even at $820k, it's a pretty good deal for where the home is imho, relative to the rest of the market. I wouldn't try flipping it. But if was a primary, it's a pretty nice home at that price.

As far as the recordings go, the recordings that I see for the closing in February of 2007 are for 650k and 300k. Now if Jody purchased the home for 950k as it appears, and the grant deed is recorded, then the fraud would be that Jody somehow came up with documentation showing she could make the payment on the two loans.

As I said, that indeed does look like fraud to me.

However as for the short sale not going through that does not surprise me in the least. I have seen other short sales go poof due to incompentence at the lenders side. Trustee sales only get postponed when then legal department of the lender notifies the trustee. If the trustee is not notified then the sale goes down.

So that is good that you know the buyer and his girlfriend. What I am saying is that the posting on the board should not focus on the third party sale or on the trustee sale. It should focus on the facts that you knew.

I certainly did not see any posts from anyone including yourself refuting any of the accusations made about the trustee sale, or the third party purchase or the kind comments about asians/indians/chinese purchasing in carmel valley. Not to mention the two comments referring to me as well.

Sometimes not speaking up is just as bad JP. Perhaps during the storm of posts you could have posted something to the effect of "Hey all I really know is that I know the buyer, he sold to his girlfriend, and that is all I really know about this sale. Perhaps someone could look up either of the agents to see if perhaps they know some more of the facts. Otherwise all these posts are nothing but speculation and in fact could be wildly incorrect."

Sometimes starting something and not saying something to correct it is just as bad regardless of what your original intent was.

FLU finding deals like this simply take time. It is simply a matter of tracking NODs, finding out how much people owe, knowing the market and tracking it. While pros do this, being able to dry run it doesn't take much skill, just the access to the information. I had spent alot of time dry running a few places and like I said, I made some recommendations to the guy and he shot a few of them down for various reasons so that was a good learning experience for me. It is not the pot of gold we are thinking it is from the outside looking in but the guy has done well. There were several others that I tracked but poof they disappeared so they were either cured or modified... arrrrrggggg...

For Chambord, as you said, at that price relative to the market today, it was indeed purchased below market and the buyer if quite happy. Is it my cup of tea? No not really but again, the buyer is quite astute, contrary to the remarks on BMIT about indians/chinese/asians not knowing the markets well.

I never ever said anything about the third party. The only thing I said was I thought the first was more than 650k and you cleared that. That's it. I was hoping someone would clear that.

I had no facts to refute what happened after it sold on the steps. I posted the information I had. How can I refute anything afterwards if I have no information on it. I knew it sold at the steps and was flipped. That's it.

I didn't even know until now that you represented the buyer. I only have the basic information posted as far as the date it sold and the price. I knew it was going to foreclosure and Redfin said it sold for 650k.

OC even clarified that really what I was relaying was the purchase in December and the sale in February.

I had no other information to refute. I certainly can't control comments other people make. I don't speak up if I am not sure about things. Threads get hijacked. This one did.

SDR, if you don't mind, I'm gonna send you an email. I want to learn about some of your previous recommendations, where you're getting your information,etc, being a newbie to all this. It doesn't sound like it's a walk in the park, nor do i expect it to be, but I would be interested in following through one of your examples to see, if yo u don't mind sharing. I promise I won't be competing on any properties you are interested in yourself. (I have a much tighter self-imposed financial leash, these days if you know what I mean :) ).

FLU adam [at] 1800grrealty [dot] com

FLU
I would encourage you to contact Adam and dont be embarressed at all by your online persona. I think alot of us, present company included, get carried away having fun online. I believe the long time regular posters around here understand that and are for the most part bright, open mided people. One of these years a meet up would be fun for those willing to come out from behind the curtain. I think I'd enjoy having a cocktail with Adam, Rustico, Rich, yourself, sduuuude, esmith, TG etc. Heck, I wouldnt even rule out enjoying a drink with "she who wont be named" (maybe that's a stretch). I know that I am very different in person than I am as sdr online. Certainly alot less bold. Its a diversion for me from a busy and often stressful life. We hang here for the community, for fun and most importantly for the learning. I know that I have benefitted in all 3 ways and I doubt I'm the only one who has.

cheers

sdr

I know I give you a little trouble here and there FLU but I was thinking about what sdrealtor said also. I didn't say it, because I feel like you might not enjoy hearing it from me. My prevailing sense about you has always been that you are a good man.

Could not agree more with sdr and rustico. I pretty much enjoy all of the posts whether I agree with them or not.

JP I didn't mean to come down hard on you but I was upset about the blogs that followed the thread on BMIT and if I took it out on you I am sorry.

FLU when I made the posts about some people doing very well in the trustee sale market sdr was one of those who commented on it as well. I can only wish I was one of them. As I said, I don't want to tivialize the effort but some of these guys have done very well AND they are really good at what they do. I am sure sdr has seen some of them and Jim K most likely has as well. Not all the deals are successful but man oh man some of them can be gems. I am very much green with envy of some of them.

Also in this down market some realtors have done so damn well because they are so connected with the REO market.

Maybe we will all meet up at TGs house party!

SDR - No problem. I have valued your opinion and I could tell you were upset about what was said. Don't kill the messenger. I was just forwarding to OC a property that caught my eye, mostly for other than the flip (the questionable transactions before foreclosure), but OC featured the successful flip.