San Diego Housing Bubble News and Analysis

Oh, come now. How is this different from commercials you see that tout

BMW: "the ultimate driving machine", all the weight-loss ads touting "I lost 100+ lbs" when the before after pcitures are clearly two different people, or those rich dad/poor dad "self improvement seminars" touted by robert k or donald trump.

It's about personal responsibility, due diligence, and buyer beware, which appears to be lacking in america these days. Granted those walkin realtors are really annoying, no one's holding you at gunpoint to buy a house, and if you didn't want to talk to a complete stranger, you shouldn't have opened the door to random marketers.

As far as spitting in his face, yeah that would have worked real well. You would have supplemented his income as well as probably some personal injury attorney for god knows what. We do live in sue happy CA. Not to mention it's considered assault/battery in some areas, and since you would have done this on someone considered a minority, it could have been interpreted as a hate crime.

And pssss....haven't you heard, carmel valley is holding value. </sarcasm>

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----- Sour grapes for everyone!

The market has definitely flattened out

This is a relative statement. I think FLU had it right. Why would it not be up to you to do a little dilgence to see if the market had actually flattend out.

As for spitting in his face. Again FLU had it right. What would you have proven. If you disagree with someone or believe somthing that is contrary to your belief than you can simply walk away or ask that they not come back.

The other thing you can do is ask for empiracle evidence that supports his statement.

At some point the market is going to have flattened out and more than likely a realator is going to tell you it. How are you going to recognise it at that point in time?

By knowing that it's flattening out 6 months before it happens as a result of doing your own research.

Watch listings vs. sales. It ain't rocket science.

FLU. Now wait a minute. Having owned 7 BMW's, including 3 M cars, I can say that it is true that BMW is the ultimate driving machine. I even still have an M car in my stable.

So I can say without hesitation, that it is absolutely true that BMW is the ultimate driving machine. Well, except for my uberpowered Audi. Oh, yea, except for that AMG Mercedes I had. Other than that, yes it is the ultimate driving machine.

Realtors have essentially become used car's salesmen. There are few honest ones out there. By and large, the majority are just looking to make a quick buck.

Frankly, in today's day and age, I have to question what value a buyer's agent really offers. By and large, the information they can provide is available either free or much cheaper from other sources. (e.g., if you buy a $1mill house, are you really getting $30k of services from them?) And, the advice the majority offer is either deceitful or half truths designed to get you to buy quickly at a high price to maximize their income with the least amount of work.

I feel bad for getting OT on this thread but I can't help it. BMW's "ultimate driving machine" is one of the best marketing slogan of all time in the automotive industry. Sure, BMW designs its car with handling as one of the top priority. But they're not the only one. To some, "ultimate driving machine" is how smooth and supple the ride is. Which in that case, BMW is not at the top, Benz & Lexus is. To some, "ultimate driving machine" is price performance, which Infiniti takes the crown. BMW is the "ultimate driving machine" when you're talking about balance in power, handling, and ride quality. But you sacrifice the price for that level of balance. Also, I hardly call the 328i or any low powered BMW an "ultimate driving machine" even though they priced it like it is.

FLU. Now wait a minute. Having owned 7 BMW's, including 3 M cars, I can say that it is true that BMW is the ultimate driving machine. I even still have an M car in my stable.

So I can say without hesitation, that it is absolutely true that BMW is the ultimate driving machine. Well, except for my uberpowered Audi. Oh, yea, except for that AMG Mercedes I had. Other than that, yes it is the ultimate driving machine.

Go ahead raptorduck.... rub it in... Some of us are just jealous because we don't drive around M5's. Sorry about the Bimmer comment. I was a big fan of the M's pre-bangle-design-days, but I've never got accustomed to the new lines. I won't dispute the performance. And every single time I borrowed by relative's bimmer in SF, I always managed to get pulled over (though it only resulted in a total of 1 ticket), so me and bimmers don't mix.

Actually, I 'm more jealous that you speak of an uberpowered audi. If it's an RS6, RS4, or R8, i hate you. Can you please donate your uberpowered audi to poor people like me? You'll get a tax writeoff, not to mention it's good karma. But seriously, Audi's got some more ubernous down the road. At the Geneva autoshow, they released the R8V12TDI. And I can't wait for the RS5 derived from the A5/S5 line, though I don't the RS5 will be in my purchase radar in the forseable future. (Google, please buyout my company.)

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----- Sour grapes for everyone!

I feel bad for getting OT on this thread but I can't help it. BMW's "ultimate driving machine" is one of the best marketing slogan of all time in the automotive industry. Sure, BMW designs its car with handling as one of the top priority. But they're not the only one. To some, "ultimate driving machine" is how smooth and supple the ride is. Which in that case, BMW is not at the top, Benz & Lexus is. To some, "ultimate driving machine" is price performance, which Infiniti takes the crown. BMW is the "ultimate driving machine" when you're talking about balance in power, handling, and ride quality. But you sacrifice the price for that level of balance. Also, I hardly call the 328i or any low powered BMW an "ultimate driving machine" even though they priced it like it is.

There's some truth in the slogan, most people just don't push their cars to the limit to prove it. G35/37 and IS250/350 isn't a track friendly car. Nissan's redeeming factor is that they have an uber nissan, Skyline GTR, which is the real deal.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Gen...

Edit:

More interesting feed:  Porsche 997 versus GTR.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1gRaO69vfuU

Unfortunately, the waitlist for these and the expected dealer markup of $20k+ for these limited production cars will easily push the price well close to the $100k, which is insane for something that comes from nissan imho.

You can make money in buying and selling limited production cars, but getting to an allocation is the challenge.

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----- Sour grapes for everyone!

FLU. Could not agree with you more. The current BMW designs are not for me. My current one is the prior line S-54 M Roadster ('01), not the Z4 M version.

It is an RS4. We have a couple Audi's now. I had been a BMW and Benz owner for so many years and never looked at Audi. Now I think they lead the German pack in design and overall function IMHO. But both my RS4 and S54 are sticks and I have to admit that I am too old or lazy now to drive a stick. I went to Aston Martin's driving school a few years ago in England and drove a paddle shift DB9. A paddle shift car of some sort will be my next one. After I buy a house that is.

FLU, what do you mean by G35/37 and IS250/350 not a track friendly car? I take my decently loaded G35 to the track several time and it handled it just fine. The Brembo brakes never fades and the handling is not bad at all. All for a price of a base 325Ci.

I totally agree with you that the GT-R is blowing away all competition in the price range at the moment. Here's the GT-R beating the GT3 and embarrassing the M3.
Part 1
Part 2

I actually love the Bangle-ized BMW. Looks much more edgy than the boring old BMW, but that's just me.

Arghh! Car talk! :)

Just for the record, I have a crappy Saab. Do not buy a Saab.

What I am surprised about is that Realtors (R) are out "farming" again. Isn't that the correct term when they're actually going door to door? I remember when I was a kid this one Realtor (R) always brought a pumpkin, mini Christmas tree or whatnot along with her card year after year. My parents still have her card on the refrigerator. If she's still alive and kickin' when they're gone I'll give her a call just to reward her for her tenacity.

No agent has come to my door since I moved in here, at least, not while I've been home. I have noticed, like I'm sure everyone here has, that we are no longer getting glossy four-color postcards of houses that have just sold/just been listed in the neighborhood. Just thin, blue, lightweight cards with black and white pics and more than one property.

FLU, what do you mean by G35/37 and IS250/350 not a track friendly car? I take my decently loaded G35 to the track several time and it handled it just fine. The Brembo brakes never fades and the handling is not bad at all. All for a price of a base 325Ci.

I felt it (the one I drove) was slightly (and I say slightly) on the soft side around the corners compared to the a 3xx, but that's just me. Could have been tires, could have been suspension setup (though both was running stock on both cars i think). The bimmer had aftermarket brakes, but so did the infiniti, so it was pretty much a wash. For me the bimmer just felt better, and no I don't have a bimmer fetish.In any case, both did better than my audi that has a front overhang issue. Though I love seem folks with rwd only drive in snow and ice. Oh wait, it doesn't snow in SD.

Not trying to nark on what people drive frankly, my original thread was just to make an analogy... I don't race for a living, and rarely go to track event these days anymore, And my 8+ years audi is starting to show it's age, with aftermarket turbo that's howling like it's going to keel over tomorrow, an chipped ecu tha died once to a bad soldering job, and a custom exhaust that while lessens the flow restriction to the turbo is nevertheless is slightly more annoying in my golden years, a timing belt that is 6 months overdue for a replacement, and ZR rated tires purchased from costco that more feel like SR rated tires (being that they BFGoodrich are made in thailand) that can't handle a single drop of rain that lands on asphalt, and other odds and ends "modifications" that in my younger more foolish days totaled $8k in unwise "investments". Heck, I'm so lazy, I don't even want to change my own oil every six months. If I were to buy something like an RS5, i probably won't even put it on the track, so I'd just be one of those annoying people doing 75-80 on the freeway, or worse actually drive 65 in a 65 zone.

So let me retract my statements about people's cars. I'm getting old in my approaching my mid 30ies, and to echo raptorduck's feeling of being an old fart, the entire slushbox shifting is getting tiring. Old Man's best auto invention was a DSG transmission put in a car that can fit a infant seat in back, which will outshift most of us most of the time when the infant isn't in the backseat. And with VW/Audi no longer having the exclusivity of that technology they borrowed from BorgWarner, that's good news to the rest of the auto makers.

Anyway, I'm going need to go back to work. I have more doors to knock on, and don't want to miss the next person that has an urge to spit on me.

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----- Sour grapes for everyone!

I felt it (the one I drove) was slightly (and I say slightly) on the soft side around the corners compared to the a 3xx, but that's just me. Could have been tires, could have been suspension setup (though both was running stock on both cars i think). The bimmer had aftermarket brakes, but so did the infiniti, so it was pretty much a wash. For me the bimmer just felt better, and no I don't have a bimmer fetish.In any case, both did better than my audi that has a front overhang issue. Though I love seem folks with rwd only drive in snow and ice. Oh wait, it doesn't snow in SD.
I agree that the BMW from factory feels a little tighter than the G sedan and the auto G coupe. My feeling was that, tires and suspension can be upgraded easily if I were to track my car more often but it's much harder to get more power unless you have turbo. Since the G35 is priced like a 325/328, it has about 80HP advantage. The big seller for me was the Brembo on the G35 6MT. Both the G and the 3-series have AWD option w/out the massive overhang the Audi have ;-).

I agree with you about DSG. DSG is an amazing transmission and would make it very easy to get peak performance every time. However, it will never give me the grin I get heel-toeing into corners. It's definitely a hard choice for me.

Realtors are salesmen, nothing more nothing less. The sales profession by definition is about encouraging people to buy things they may or may not need, and right now is always the best time!

Come on, what cave have you been living under dude? If you actually trust salespeople and take their opinion as honest and unbiased then you are really out of touch.

Look, I dislike realtors just as much as everyone else on this forum. But come on, spit on them? If you are going to take that attitude you would be spitting on people all the time. Realtors are no better or worse than any other salesmen.

I think a toyota camry is also an ultimate driving machine... what do you say guys? Any camry owners here?

I also say that toyota motor stock is an ultimate money making machine...atleast for me..

I am competely happy with my toyota camry..er.. toyota ADR stock..

I think a toyota camry is also an ultimate driving machine... what do you say guys? Any camry owners here?

My parents have 2 Camry, so I concur :-).

Even Shiller says (with a big smirk on his face) that it is possible for house prices to start going up again. Not probable but possible…

I've driven the new 3-Series and the lastest Camry. The cars cannot even be compared. I am not saying that one is better than the other but they are made for different markets.

BTW I have the coveted and now rare S60R. It has an electronic suspension like the M5 and new M3. This suspension is perfect for San Diego's crappy streets since you can make it soft when going over pot holes.

I would love to buy a 3 Series and even looked at one today, but the issue I have is the maintenance after 4 years.

I'm just not sure BMW's hold up well.

I think an Infiniti or Lexus gets you great performance and a car that will last and be reliable without putting $4000 a year into it.

All the comments about nifty cars aside - and I plan on picking up some nice used Realtor car in the next year or so - I stand by my vehemence.

Lying about a used car is one thing. These guys are running around lying about houses that cost 10x - 50x. People's personal finances are being devastated.

Whatever. I got my ass out, so I don't personally care, and am frankly profiting off the macroeconomic situation. It just sickens me to see people lying in their self interest, and to the detriment of others. How can the guy look in the mirror each morning and feel good about encouraging people to buy houses now?

I agree that the BMW from factory feels a little tighter than the G sedan and the auto G coupe. My feeling was that, tires and suspension can be upgraded easily if I were to track my car more often but it's much harder to get more power unless you have turbo. Since the G35 is priced like a 325/328, it has about 80HP advantage. The big seller for me was the Brembo on the G35 6MT. Both the G and the 3-series have AWD option w/out the massive overhang the Audi have ;-).

I agree with you about DSG. DSG is an amazing transmission and would make it very easy to get peak performance every time. However, it will never give me the grin I get heel-toeing into corners. It's definitely a hard choice for me.

Audi has started correcting most of my gripes in the past, namely.

1) Starting with the RS4, quattro is now more rear-wheel biased.

2) TT is now a pretty good, light(er) weight car with better distribution.

3) the latest S5/A5 and next gen A4/S4 has corrected the overhang and also made quattro more rear wheel bias.

4) The next generation s4 most likely will return to a bi-turbo setup, and hopefully the rs4 will be a turbo charged v8. Odd that the current S5 will be V8 normally aspirated while the s4 will be bi-turbo. But turbo ==> nice aftermarkets mods ==> creating an insane sleeper grocery getter ==> unfortunately, ultimately leads to AoA voiding warranties.

Sorry, I do have to draw a line. Except for the Nissan GTR, no other car in we mentioned above in awd format I think matches audi's quattro. Buying an audi without quattro is like buying a male pet for reproducing and neutering it at the same time. Why do people buy an an audi with FWD is beyond me.

Audi also changed their lineup. The correct competition right now is

Audi A4/a5 3.2 <--> BMW 328 <-->no direct infinit <--->Lexus IS250

Audi S4/S5 <--> BMW 335 <-->Infiniti G37 <-->Lexus IS350

Audi RS4/RS5(expected) <--->E90 BMW M3 sedan(expected)/coupe <--->no current Infiniti <---> IS-F

If I was in the market for a performance car, I would consider the e90 m3 or the S5 (though in different leagues... Unfortunately, some of us wants to retire earlier and spend more time with family, and don't have millions in stock options to throw around, and are just peons working as an average joe at a company. So, some of our dreams will have to be deferred to when/and if excessive consumption can be realized. 

On the economics side, it will be interesting to see how these foreign car companies keep pace with the falling dollar. I can see Audi start exporting from their factories in Shanghai (oh god no), BMW start using their US manufacturing sites more in N Carolina (great, good old fashion X5-like quality labor from america (sacasm)), and Nissan shift production down here. We might end up with radiators from AC/Delco, and oil filters from Fram in German cars, leaving only the real uber sports cars attainable Germany that only rich people can afford to buy. See, the falling dollar really hurts us in ways that really matter:) Good thing I stocked up on every maintanence parts for my audi for the next 5 years. I'm not even kidding, prices of parts have gone up significantly.

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----- Sour grapes for everyone!

All the comments about nifty cars aside - and I plan on picking up some nice used Realtor car in the next year or so - I stand by my vehemence.

Lying about a used car is one thing. These guys are running around lying about houses that cost 10x - 50x. People's personal finances are being devastated.

Whatever. I got my ass out, so I don't personally care, and am frankly profiting off the macroeconomic situation. It just sickens me to see people lying in their self interest, and to the detriment of others. How can the guy look in the mirror each morning and feel good about encouraging people to buy houses now?

That's pretty funny. Doing so would be like catching a falling dagger. One of the worst things you could do is to buy a used german car. But even if you went that route, ultimately the worst thing you can do is buy it from people who most likely leased the car and had little or no respect for the car wrto maintanence. Come on, think about it. Why do you think BMW decided to no longer allow you to check the oil in the latest e90 series with a dipstick. Take your stereotype "bimbo/idiot" realtor you described (which I don't necessarily agree all are like that), and picture them ever opening up the hood of their leased car to ever check whether the oil was low (or even know where the hood release is).

Or take the latest 335, with a bi-turbo. How many people who lease these cars do you think actually know what a turbo does, and know running a turbocharged car hard and then shutting off the engine immediately is a big no-no. BMW I assure you doesn't list this in their owner's manual. After all, they only need to worry about it for 4 years while it's under warranty.

You want to catch this money pit, be my guest. Then, not only will you be pissed that these folks ran around "lying and devastating people's finances" as you say, you'll be pissed that their used bimmer's and benzes you picked up thinking it was a great deal end up devestating YOUR finances. I can't think of a single person that bought a used german car from an unknown seller that was happy with the decision 4-5 years down the road, unless they had a lot of money and didn't mind the inconvenience of trips to the shop. Like I said, before, buyer beware.

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----- Sour grapes for everyone!

ditto what paramount said, having owned most of the aforementioned brands, my Infiniti/Lexus experience cost me less per year out of warranty than my BMW/Mercedes experience did while under warranty. Maintenance wise after warranty the difference wasn't even close, probably a ten fold difference in maint costs and a negligible difference in performance/luxury.

FLU, I hope you know the AWD system in the G35 (soon to be G37) sedan is the same AWD system in the GT-R. Which means, w/out slip, you're 100% RWD. Only when it sense slip does it start transferring power to the front wheels.

I do agree that Audi is starting to fix the overhang problem and the weight problem w/ the TT as well. Returning to bi-turbo in the S4 is also a great thing for them as well. I'm never a fan of Audi though.

I don't agree with your competition analysis. Unless you're referring to competition by power, then I agree. But I tend to compare them in price bracket instead. Which would make:

A4/A5 2.0T AWD -> C300 -> 328i/Ci -> G35sedan/G37coupe -> IS250
The base MSRP of these cars are $31-34k.

A4/A5 3.2L V6 AWD -> C350 -> 335i/Ci -> Nothing from Infiniti -> IS350
The base MSRP of htese cars are $36-40k.

What Audi did w/ the S4/RS4 is kind of odd in term of price because where the C63/M3/IS-F are priced similar to each other @ around $55k MSRP, Audi priced the S4/S5 @ $48-50k and RS4/RS5 @ $68k. So, while the current S4/S5 is still being spanked by the 335, it's priced very close to the M3 range. I always find Audi to be the most over priced of the Germans. Maybe that's why I like them least. There's rumor of that Nissan is considering an Infiniti version of the GT-R, which would put it in the M3/C63/IS-F camp.

This is the reason why I got the G35 coupe, they priced the G in the 328/C300/S4 2.0T/IS250 camp but give the performance of the C350/S4 3.2/IS350.

In regards to maintenance, since it's the same engine as all the other Nissan V6, I can bring it to Nissan dealer for maintenance if I want. I won't get the "pampering"/loaner like @ the Infiniti dealer, but it's also much cheaper.

I think a toyota camry is also an ultimate driving machine... what do you say guys? Any camry owners here?

My parents have 2 Camry, so I concur :-).

I'm going to guess your family is chinese. The question is, can you name any chinese family that has never owned own a toyota camry or honda accord some point in the past?

Ok, enough car talk. I really need to get back on topic. You win. I'll shut up now.

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----- Sour grapes for everyone!

:-), sorry FLU, but I'm not Chinese and yes, my wife's family never owned a Camry or Accord. :-D, but they did own a Maxima and Legend, so that can almost count.

Coming back to topic, I agree with the posters on here, real estate agent can say what ever they want. It's up to each person to believe what they say or not. Just like the car talks, we all are right in our own eyes. Like every other commodity market that go up and down in cycle, on the way up, bears will constantly call top, while on the way down, bulls will constant call bottom.

:-), sorry FLU, but I'm not Chinese and yes, my wife's family never owned a Camry or Accord. :-D, but they did own a Maxima and Legend, so that can almost count.

you disappoint me asianautica, you don't fit the asian stereotype :)

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----- Sour grapes for everyone!

AN -
I must respectfully disagree - I recently bought a new "low powered 328i coupe - it's plenty fast and handles amazingly well. IMHO, you don't need 300+ hp to be an "ultimate driving machine." So far, my favorite car EVER.

Like I said earlier, every car can be someone's "ultimate driving machine", even a Camry. My parents preferred their Camry over the 3 series for example. To me, even 300HP is borderline underpowered now, so the 328 is definitely underpowered and I'd never touch it.