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Are Jews allowed?

How does one have issues with another's fantasy? I don't think that's possible.

You assume the OP is a family values kinda guy because he has a stay at home spouse. What does that have to do with christianity? Do you think christians have a monopoly on family values?

You see, I don't have issues with your fantasy being. I have issues with you. And the reason I have issues with you is because you make false, hypocritical assumptions about people. And because you're arrogant as a result of those false assumptions. You assume that because the OP has family values, he must want to be around or actually be a christian. And you assume that, because a christian atmosphere sounds awful to me, I must not have family values. While the OP may or may not be a christian, it is most certainly not a safe assumption that he is just because he has family values. And I can say for certain that it is not safe to assume that, because I don't like a christian atmosphere, that I don't have family values.

You have just illustrated the exact reason I don't like a christian atmosphere. Piety without humility. The assumption that you're better than non-christians and the arrogance and condescension that that brings. You've also illustrated the very common failure of christians to live up to christian values. Or is it a christian value to be arrogant?

You're correct, oc. I lie, I cheat, I steal. Heck, sometimes I even murder if I think I can get away with it. Why wouldn't I? My parents didn't teach me anything. I wasn't born with basic human dignity. Only people who have been taught the word of the christian god have any reason at all to be decent to their fellow human beings. Only christians have family values. Only christians are good people. The rest of us are loose cannons with no canons to guide us. Especially Jews. The Jews were all right for the first couple thousand years. But then they took a wrong turn. Silly rabbits. Wouldn't know a messiah if he got nailed to a cross for them.

dup

Are family values kind of antichristian? Family focus seem very worldly, kind of focussed on the self and the selfs product. The commandment is love thy neighbor(even if he's a dick, especially if he's a dick, even if he's a smelly homeless atheist mentally ill dude) as thyself, not love thy family as thyself.

I'd say family values are more of a Jewish thing.

When I was a kid, my recollection is Christians were suspicious of Jews. Now it seems like Jews are a ok with young bornagains...maybe it's like the general trend of the youth accepting gays...

Cool zk, I too had a fun filled day lying and cheating and stealing, as well as coveting my neighbors' wives as well wives of anyone I came across. I'm pretty sure I fathered a few kids today too. I have lost count just how many little ocrenters are running around due to my complete lack of family value too.

Since I too did not hear about the son, the father, and the ghost and how he, him, and it died for my sin, it will be yet another day of lying, cheating, stealing, and coveting to look forward to tomorrow. Yay!

"You're a smelly, homeless, atheist, mentally ill dick!"

(angrily) "Who are you callin' an atheist?!"

I grew up in a largely Jewish neighborhood. And I was never suspicious of Jews until just now. Now that I hear that they're accepted by, nay, "a ok with" bornagains. That is highly suspicious.

"little ocrenters." Hilarious. I hope there are lots of them running around, renting houses, buying houses, driving up rents and prices.

He, Him, and It. That's got quite a ring to it. I think you could make a christian rap song out of that. The holy trinity of pronouns. He, Him, and It. They bad. They real bad. Don't piss them off! They be on you like a motha. They be all in yo face. They be stickin' they gang signs, they thumbs and they pinkies all up in yo grill. They be like, "you want some hellfire? You want some brimstone? You want some eternal damnation? Go ahead and fuck with us, motha fucka. Come on. We dare ya. Yeah, dat's what we thought. Pussy."

Hmm. Upon further review, maybe I do have issues with your fantasy, Doooh.

Funny story.

When we were considering purchase of our current home, I went to the next door neighbor to see what they thought of the neighborhood. The woman that answered the door talked to me politely and, once I had won her over, started to whisper "that house over there is Mormon, that one is (can't remember what now), and we are Christian...just wanted you to know this is a mixed neighborhood." I couldn't tell if she was fishing for me to volunteer what I was, or what.

She may be physically ill now that she knows I have no religion and live next door...if she's figured it out yet.

That is a funny story. I laughed out loud. A mixed neighborhood?! Different flavors of christians? What would she do if a Hindu moved in? Or a new age spiritualist? Or an Asian (with an uncountable number of little half-sibling Asians running around)? Or, god forbid, a Jew? Probably just tilt her head, lost, confused, and unable to process the information.

I'd blame Dr. Laura for that one. She was the ultimate "family values" kind of Orthodox Jew. She loved stay at home moms, homeschooling, strong male/female roles... very much in line with the values of many "born again Christian" groups.

To hate something that doesn't exist, is ironic.

Carry on.

Ahh, Doooh, but your fantasy does exist. And your fantasy has real consequences in the real world.

I don't hate your fantasy. I'm not sure where you got "hate" from. But I do have issues with it and its consequences. A couple of those consequences I’ve already mentioned. Here are a few more.

My ganster metaphor was partly an attempt at humor but also an analogy. Your fantasy has got you and the billion people who share your fantasy (or, to be more accurate, the billion people with whom you share variations on a fantasy) cowering from your imaginations. This cowering was designed by the writers of your fantasy to (in my opinion – I’d be interested in any others’) keep you in line. To keep you from “sinning” or from questioning the word of your “god.” This is not, in my opinion, the best way to get people to behave well. Instead of appealing to your better nature or to your reason, the writers of your fantasy attempt to control you through fear and cowardice.

I was going to add something about substitutionary atonement in my gangster story, too, but I ran out of time. Here’s another problem I have with your fantasy. Where is your fear and cowardice when you decide to go against god’s word and be arrogant, Doooh? Is it, perhaps, that you figure you’ll just atone for your wrongdoings and receive forgiveness? This is not a rhetorical question; I really want to know. Christians willingly, purposely, and with forethought sin on a very regular basis. Why? Why risk eternal damnation when all you have to do is be good for 70 or 80 years? Do you think, “Jesus died for me. I’ll atone. God will have me again.” Doesn’t seem like a very good system.

Back to the billion variations. Here’s another problem. Even among those whose flavor of christianity means interpreting the bible literally, each person has his own version. And among the rest of the christians (which is most of them), there is even wider variation. If the word of god can be interpreted almost any way you want, then it doesn’t mean much. Point being, it doesn’t mean much. Much good, anyway. “I’ll be a christian. But I’ll interpret the bible in a way that fits my lifestyle. For instance, I think homosexuality is an abomination. So I’m going to interpret that part of the bible literally.”

This brings me to another point. Why are christians generally politically conservative? I can’t for the life of me understand this. Kind, gentle souls reach out to the poor and underprivileged. Aren’t christians supposed to be kind, gentle, generous souls? I can understand the abortion issue. (Heck, I’m basically an atheist, and I’m not really in favor of abortion in most cases.) I can sort of understand the gay marriage law issue. If you’re homophobic and christian and therefore agree with that part of the bible. Other than that, I don’t get it. If any christians out there want to explain that to me, I’d love to hear it. Like I said, I can understand why they stand where they do on those two issues. But they generally follow all the far-right ideas. Including the ones that basically give the poor and underprivileged nothing but the middle finger. That’s what I don’t understand.

Here’s my biggest problem with your fantasy: It makes you immune to logic, reason, data, and facts. Any evidence for anything that contradicts your fantasy, you discard. That, of course, leaves you ignorant of reality. Maybe none of us has a perfect grasp on reality. But to purposely ignore reality doesn’t make sense at all.

I’d mentioned previously a couple christian shortcomings that directly apply to you, Doooh. And, having gotten no rebuttal other than what I assume you thought was a funny comment, it seems likely that you have no valid rebuttal. I’d love you to prove me wrong. I’m not holding my breath.

One more question for christians: Do you, like Doooh appears to, think christians have a monopoly on family values? It occurred to me today that possibly Doooh really does think that. If christians are taught their whole lives that fear of god and being a good christian are the only things that will keep you on the straight and narrow, then maybe they really believe that’s true. Maybe they really do believe that all non-christians are to be feared and avoided.

I am pretty sure you exist and I am also pretty sure he hates you, along with most of the people who read your post.

But I do agree with you in one way. All the people who proclaim to be the good christians with "family values" should move to your neighborhood. That way I will know what area to avoid, unless I want to sell some magic beans.

If you only hire people w little Christian fish on their ads you will never get cheated.

Wow, everybody still ganging up on Doooh. No christians here who agree with him?