Prop 30 passes... Get ready to bend over.....

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Submitted by flu on November 7, 2012 - 8:30am

Proposition 30:

Raises California’s sales tax to 7.5% from 7.25%, a 3.45% percentage increase over current law. (Under the Brown Tax Hike, the sales tax would have increased to 7.75%)[3][4]

Creates four high-income tax brackets for taxpayers with taxable incomes exceeding $250,000, $300,000, $500,000 and $1,000,000.
This increased tax will be in effect for 7 years.[3][5][6]

Imposes a 10.3% tax rate on taxable income over $250,000 but less than $300,000--a percentage increase of 10.6% over current policy of 9.3%.

The 10.3% income tax rate is currently only paid by taxpayers with over $1,000,000 in taxable income.[7].

Imposes an 11.3% tax rate on taxable income over $300,000 but less than $500,000--a percentage increase of 21.5% over current policy of 9.3%.

Imposes a 12.3% tax rate on taxable income over $500,000 up to $1,000,000--a percentage increase of 32.26% over current policy of 9.3%.
Imposes a 13.3% tax rate on taxable income over $1,000,000--a percentage increase of 29.13% over current "millionaires tax" policy of 10.3%.
If this proposition is passed in November, 2012, the income tax will apply retroactively to all income earned or received since the first of the year (1 January, 2012).

Based on California Franchise Tax Board data for 2009[8], the additional income tax is imposed on the top 3% of California taxpayers.

Submitted by flu on November 7, 2012 - 8:32am.

...Now where are my unrealized capital losses that I've been saving just for a situation like this.....

Submitted by no_such_reality on November 7, 2012 - 9:28am.

So flu, you have two choices:

1. make less money
2. make more money

If you make 10% more, you'll have a percent or two more after tax money to spend.

If you make less, you'll have less.

Submitted by flu on November 7, 2012 - 9:33am.

no_such_reality wrote:
So flu, you have two choices:

1. make less money
2. make more money

If you make 10% more, you'll have a percent or two more after tax money to spend.

If you make less, you'll have less.

I guess the poway school district board members get a raise this year afterall? :)

Submitted by XBoxBoy on November 7, 2012 - 10:45am.

You ain't seen nothing yet. Democrats will have super-majorities in both houses of the California legislature after this election. Let the taxing and spending begin!!!

Submitted by no_such_reality on November 7, 2012 - 10:54am.

XBoxBoy wrote:
You ain't seen nothing yet. Democrats will have super-majorities in both houses of the California legislature after this election. Let the taxing and spending begin!!!

No what happened last time we did that?

We got prop 13...

Submitted by flu on November 7, 2012 - 11:04am.

no_such_reality wrote:
XBoxBoy wrote:
You ain't seen nothing yet. Democrats will have super-majorities in both houses of the California legislature after this election. Let the taxing and spending begin!!!

No what happened last time we did that?

We got prop 13...

Yup, but wait. Some people think we should repeal that now...Well at least for investment property (obviously from people who don't own investment property)...

Submitted by livinincali on November 7, 2012 - 11:08am.

flu wrote:

Yup, but wait. Some people think we should repeal that now...Well at least for investment property (obviously from people who don't own investment property)...

Of course. It's always ok tax and spend somebody else's money. The problem with going down that path is eventually we come up with some tax and spend where "you" are the somebody else's money.

Submitted by Oni Koroshi on November 7, 2012 - 11:34am.

Aside from the small sales tax increase, this won't affect the income for most of us yet public education will benefit greatly which does affect all of us.

Submitted by flu on November 7, 2012 - 11:38am.

Oni Koroshi wrote:
Aside from the small sales tax increase, this won't affect the income for most of us yet public education will benefit greatly which does affect all of us.

It won't do shit for public education.

Bookmark this thread and let's compare notes in 2 years to see if your local public school are any better off 2 years from now...

Local schools know this...And that's probably why there's a bunch of local bond initiatives to fund schools locally.

Submitted by XBoxBoy on November 7, 2012 - 11:53am.

Oni Koroshi wrote:
public education will benefit greatly which does affect all of us.

God it must be great to be young and idealistic still... Man I remember those days...

Submitted by ucodegen on November 7, 2012 - 11:53am.

Oni Koroshi wrote:
Aside from the small sales tax increase, this won't affect the income for most of us yet public education will benefit greatly which does affect all of us.
Problem is that throwing money at it does not mean you get quality. We have too many mixed agendas here.

Submitted by no_such_reality on November 7, 2012 - 12:04pm.

ucodegen wrote:
Oni Koroshi wrote:
Aside from the small sales tax increase, this won't affect the income for most of us yet public education will benefit greatly which does affect all of us.
Problem is that throwing money at it does not mean you get quality. We have too many mixed agendas here.

No we don't.

Most of the props and local measures all had one clear agenda. The trough is already lined up. It's about the gravy, not the schools.

That billion dollar tax loophole, Prop 39? Yea, that's about gravy too, it was bankrolled by the green energy hedgefund guy, and well, the tax revenue from it for the next two years are ear marked for 'green energy'.

the death penalty prop, $100 million gravy for the police departments.

prop 30, gravy central...

Submitted by ucodegen on November 7, 2012 - 12:11pm.

What I find interesting is that last night, with only 29% of the vote count.. 30 was losing, 32 was winning, and 39 was losing. While we can declare who won the electoral college on 29% of the vote, the additional 71% of vote completely reversed the status on these propositions. Around 22:25, the secretary of state stopped updating their website. Either there is a very significantly different demographic that got added in, or something is hinky.

Submitted by meadandale on November 7, 2012 - 12:15pm.

flu wrote:
Oni Koroshi wrote:
Aside from the small sales tax increase, this won't affect the income for most of us yet public education will benefit greatly which does affect all of us.

It won't do shit for public education.

Bookmark this thread and let's compare notes in 2 years to see if your local public school are any better off 2 years from now...

Local schools know this...And that's probably why there's a bunch of local bond initiatives to fund schools locally.

What everyone fails to understand in their California Liberal Utopia fantasy is that although the prop 30 money may be "guaranteed" for schools, there is nothing preventing the state from shifting current education spending in the state budget to other things now that this measure passed.

Which will likely result in no net change or an actual decrease in education spending as this shift occurs.

Submitted by EconProf on November 7, 2012 - 12:23pm.

Prop 30 will bring in way less than the $6 billion its backers claim. That's because taxpayers and businesses will accelerate their exodus to tax-friendlier states. Our unemployment rate will rise and our fiscal situation worsen. This tax targets the very people and busineses we need to keep.

Submitted by Oni Koroshi on November 7, 2012 - 12:39pm.

flu wrote:
Oni Koroshi wrote:
Aside from the small sales tax increase, this won't affect the income for most of us yet public education will benefit greatly which does affect all of us.

It won't do shit for public education.

Bookmark this thread and let's compare notes in 2 years to see if your local public school are any better off 2 years from now...

Local schools know this...And that's probably why there's a bunch of local bond initiatives to fund schools locally.

Not everything is so black and white. It's about stopping the bleeding at this point and trying to stabilize things after these huge budget cuts to all programs.

With prop 30 passing we've avoided a "$150 increase in California State University fees per semester, $375 million in cuts to the University of California system and the elimination of $20 million in state aid to city police departments. An additional $80 million in cuts to various state departments could result in the closure of some CalFire stations, eliminate seasonal lifeguards at state parks, roll back some flood-control and boating safety programs, reduce the number of park rangers and curtail some services for the developmentally disabled." http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/endo...

We've been able to prevent a 3 week cut of the school year and other massive cuts to public schools and community colleges. While this isn't going to directly make public education better, it will surely prevent it from getting much worse.

Submitted by Zeitgeist on November 7, 2012 - 12:42pm.

flu wrote:
Oni Koroshi wrote:
Aside from the small sales tax increase, this won't affect the income for most of us yet public education will benefit greatly which does affect all of us.

It won't do shit for public education.

Bookmark this thread and let's compare notes in 2 years to see if your local public school are any better off 2 years from now...

Local schools know this...And that's probably why there's a bunch of local bond initiatives to fund schools locally.

Exactly right. The public schools will still under perform and the teachers will blame the parents for lack of involvement. Nothing changes. I remember when the lottery passed. People thought it would help the schools. Think again.

Submitted by livinincali on November 7, 2012 - 1:04pm.

Zeitgeist wrote:
flu wrote:
Oni Koroshi wrote:
Aside from the small sales tax increase, this won't affect the income for most of us yet public education will benefit greatly which does affect all of us.

It won't do shit for public education.

Bookmark this thread and let's compare notes in 2 years to see if your local public school are any better off 2 years from now...

Local schools know this...And that's probably why there's a bunch of local bond initiatives to fund schools locally.

Exactly right. The public schools will still under perform and the teachers will blame the parents for lack of involvement. Nothing changes. I remember when the lottery passed. People thought it would help the schools. Think again.

More money for schools is always built on some sort of silly premise that we'll be able to attract the best and the brightest to become teachers. Of course look at what the schools do as soon as they get that money. They don't go out and hire more teachers or attract new young teachers with higher starting salaries, they always give the teachers and administrators, we already have, big raises.

Submitted by EconProf on November 7, 2012 - 1:13pm.

Rather than reform public schools in CA, we have just thrown more money at education. Instead of pay and promotions based on merit, we continue to use seniority. When layoffs occur, the youngest and most energetic teachers are let go, usually in the economically disadvantaged areas. Our test scores and graduation rates put us 47th or 48th in the nation, yet our teachers are the highest paid compared to other states (google teacher pay by state, or some similar wording). In short, we are already taxing ourselves heavily, and getting very little productivity for it.

Submitted by carlsbadworker on November 7, 2012 - 1:41pm.

Right. Only innovation can help us with the productivity. And now that we don't need it anymore because they have got more money to spend.

Submitted by UCGal on November 7, 2012 - 2:16pm.

ucodegen wrote:
What I find interesting is that last night, with only 29% of the vote count.. 30 was losing, 32 was winning, and 39 was losing. While we can declare who won the electoral college on 29% of the vote, the additional 71% of vote completely reversed the status on these propositions. Around 22:25, the secretary of state stopped updating their website. Either there is a very significantly different demographic that got added in, or something is hinky.

The look specifically at reporting counties, and precincts, registration ratios in those areas.

City of San Fran votes very differently than the Central Valley for example.

Same was true on the presidential election last night - they were calling states based on what the party registration was for the areas still not reporting.

Basic analysis if you have the data.

Submitted by no_such_reality on November 7, 2012 - 2:34pm.

Oni Koroshi wrote:

Not everything is so black and white. It's about stopping the bleeding at this point and trying to stabilize things after these huge budget cuts to all programs.

http://www.dof.ca.gov/budgeting/budget_f...

Please look at the table and identify where the total decrease is...

I find the column title EXPENDITURE TOTALS INCLUDING
FEDERAL FUNDS to be nice as it clearly shows were are spending $30 Billion more than in 2008.

The general fund has taken a small hit, but it is more than made up for with Special Funds and Bonds.

Submitted by flu on November 7, 2012 - 2:52pm.

You know the sucky part is prop 30 passes but prop CC for del mar didn't... wow... just wow...

some people really are haters...

http://delmar-carmelvalley.patch.com/art...

Submitted by enron_by_the_sea on November 7, 2012 - 3:01pm.

Dear fellow prop. 30 haters,

Don't despair because prop. 30 passed. The fact is that Democrats now gained 2/3 supermajority in both state assembly and state senate this election. So if prop. 30 had not passed, those tax increases would have happened any way.

Always look at the bright side ...

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/D...

Submitted by flu on November 7, 2012 - 3:33pm.

poor people are about to get poorer...But again, not my problem....

Submitted by AN on November 7, 2012 - 3:38pm.

enron_by_the_sea wrote:
Dear fellow prop. 30 haters,

Don't despair because prop. 30 passed. The fact is that Democrats now gained 2/3 supermajority in both state assembly and state senate this election. So if prop. 30 had not passed, those tax increases would have happened any way.

Always look at the bright side ...

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Democrats-get-supermajority-in-Legislature-4015861.php


Would that mean CA will no longer have any problem, since Democrats can do almost anything they want?

Submitted by flu on November 7, 2012 - 3:43pm.

AN wrote:
enron_by_the_sea wrote:
Dear fellow prop. 30 haters,

Don't despair because prop. 30 passed. The fact is that Democrats now gained 2/3 supermajority in both state assembly and state senate this election. So if prop. 30 had not passed, those tax increases would have happened any way.

Always look at the bright side ...

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Democrats-get-supermajority-in-Legislature-4015861.php


Would that mean CA will no longer have any problem, since Democrats can do almost anything they want?

Oh, it will be fine.....CA can't possibly be anymore screwed up than it already is.

Submitted by AN on November 7, 2012 - 3:59pm.

flu wrote:
AN wrote:
enron_by_the_sea wrote:
Dear fellow prop. 30 haters,

Don't despair because prop. 30 passed. The fact is that Democrats now gained 2/3 supermajority in both state assembly and state senate this election. So if prop. 30 had not passed, those tax increases would have happened any way.

Always look at the bright side ...

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Democrats-get-supermajority-in-Legislature-4015861.php


Would that mean CA will no longer have any problem, since Democrats can do almost anything they want?

Oh, it will be fine.....CA can't possibly be anymore screwed up than it already is.


My point is, I better not hear anymore excuses about unemployment or budget problem. When you have super majority in all branches, there's no one left to blame.

Submitted by enron_by_the_sea on November 7, 2012 - 4:04pm.

AN wrote:

Would that mean CA will no longer have any problem, since Democrats can do almost anything they want?

Yes. :)

The positive side of me welcomes passage of prop. 30. It is preferable to have prop. 30, rather than the unknown alternative that would have come from our assembly in Sacramento which certainly would have been a lot worse.

AN wrote:

My point is, I better not hear anymore excuses about unemployment or budget problem. When you have super majority in all branches, there's no one left to blame.

+1

Submitted by Hobie on November 7, 2012 - 4:03pm.

flu wrote:
poor people are about to get poorer...But again, not my problem....

except the more 'disavantaged' there are, the more you and I will have to pay our fair share. Thank you sir may I have another.

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