playing with unemployment numbers

User Forum Topic
Submitted by DWCAP on June 18, 2009 - 12:56pm

I am having some issues with the published unemplyoment data. Has anyone else noticed that it seems each week we get excited about the employment numbers falling, only to have them later revised back up to a level we wouldnt have gotten excited about last week?

Lets just take this weeks data.

1) they revised the "lower than expected data" back up.
-"A dip in continuing claims several weeks ago was later revised higher. Initial claims rose by 3,000 to a seasonally adjusted 608,000 in the week ending June 13, above analysts' expectations."

2) Everyone is all excited now about the huge drop in continuing claims this week.
-"The department said the total unemployment insurance rolls fell by 148,000 to 6.69 million in the week ending June 6, the largest drop in more than seven years."

Quote:
The drop in continuing jobless claims likely reflects the decline in first-time claims, meaning that fewer people are joining the rolls.
"Continuing claims ... ought to be falling now given that initial claims peaked more than two months ago," Ian Shepherdson, chief U.S. economist for High Frequency Economics, wrote in a note to clients.

Except:

Quote:
Still, millions of Americans are receiving unemployment compensation under an emergency federal program authorized by Congress last summer and extended by the Obama administration's stimulus package.

About 2.4 million people received benefits under that program in the week ending May 30, an increase of more than 102,000 from the previous week. That's in addition to the 6.7 million people receiving benefits under the 26-week program typically provided by states.

So it is a 148000 drop, but 102000 of them just moved to a different unemployment role. That isnt a much of a drop, that is mostly reshuffling the deck. The 46k drop actually observed is likely to be revised higher IMO, and is probley more due to factors like people not knowing about the emergency plan, not applying in time, not qualifing, or getting short term work that will put them back on the roles as soon as the summer is over.

I may be way off, but this isnt data that screams recovery within a few months to me, but then again I am still waiting on the fall recovery promised last year.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...

Submitted by UCGal on June 18, 2009 - 1:03pm.

I've noticed the same thing... The revised number from the previous week almost always is revised to a larger number.

I look around at my employer, my friends' employers... there's not a lot of hiring going on and a lot of layoffs going on. Some of the bigger companies are doing it in trickle form, to avoid reporting it as a layoff... but a steady trickle still adds up.

Submitted by Arraya on June 18, 2009 - 5:54pm.

Yup, the are playing the confidence game they best they can with consistently bad numbers. The underlying fundamentals and what is driving unemployment have not changed since the downturn started. Eventually, the market will have to look down again and we will get another round of panic.

This guy does a really good job of dissecting the job numbers. This is from earlier this month for May.

http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/may-e...

As before, my assumption is that these numbers are quite fuzzy, not worth the paper they are printed on, and heavily falsified to achieve narrow political and market influencing aims.

While I can certainly understand, and even find some compassion for, the desire to manipulate the data to inject some confidence and optimism into the populace and markets, I must regretfully conclude that such efforts are more damaging than helpful.

We did ourselves no favors by fibbing to ourselves during the blowing of the credit bubble, and we do ourselves no favors by repeating that behavior now. We need good and believable data. I judge that our markets would respond better in the long run to believable data, and that we actually owe it to ourselves to provide the most honest and accurate assessments of reality that we can.

Submitted by Rt.66 on June 18, 2009 - 6:23pm.

Report rosey (fake) unemployment numbers, stock market rallies.

Wait for some other form of rosey (fake) news (perhaps housing starts) and report it along with actual (less fake) downward revised employment numbers; stock market goes up.

Wash-rinse-repeat enough times and the sheeple start to feel like its safe to put the 201k portion they have left of their old 401k back into the market.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30750253/ns/...

Can you guess what happens next?

Submitted by 4plexowner on June 18, 2009 - 6:23pm.

and don't forget that we need 150K new jobs per month for college grads, etc

a little fact that the analysts and reporters conveniently forget when they are spinning the numbers

Submitted by flu on June 18, 2009 - 10:03pm.

Seems to me the spin sort of works physiologically for some employers. I know of a few companies that have been holding off hiring in the bay area, waiting to see if the economy gets worse. Funny thing is just today those few companies suddenly opened these positions this afternoon, and their respective head hunters have been data mining some of the people on my LinkedIn contacts today. We just hired a few college grads today too. Much easier these days, since we don't get to much competition with the "I want to work at a company that pays me to write crappy facebook apps" companies.

Submitted by mixxalot on June 19, 2009 - 7:00am.

Unemployment Lies

I've been out of work since March this year and the IT market is DISMAL especially here in San Diego. NO JOBS!

Submitted by flu on June 19, 2009 - 8:43am.

With all due respect mixxalot, I don't think I have received an email from you yet :)

Submitted by Rt.66 on June 19, 2009 - 9:03am.

As if on que for this thread we get:

Yahoo Finance is reporting Jobless benefit rolls post first dip since January.

The number of people receiving unemployment aid fell by 148,000 to 6.69 million in the week that ended June 6 -- the largest drop in more than seven years. The decline broke a string of 21 straight increases in the number of people claiming benefits for more than a week, the last 19 of which were records. (A dip in continuing claims several weeks ago was later revised higher.)

On the surface, the government seemed to signal Thursday that more Americans are finding jobs: The number of people receiving unemployment aid fell for the first time since early January.

But that doesn't necessarily mean more companies are hiring.

Fewer people are receiving jobless aid largely because more of them have exhausted their standard unemployment benefits, which typically last 26 weeks. Government figures, in fact, show the proportion of recipients who used up their jobless benefits in May topped 49 percent, a monthly record.

Submitted by peterb on June 19, 2009 - 9:45am.

If you look closely at the BLS reports, you can find the U-6 number for unemployment. The number that's reported in the MSM is almost always the U-3 number. The lie. But the U-6, the truth, is usually about twice that of the U-3. So whatever they end up "adjusting" the U-3 to, just double it to approximate the real unemployment rate.

Submitted by UCGal on June 19, 2009 - 1:03pm.

Regional numbers just came out today.
CA had a whoppin' 11.5% unemployment again.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0...

San Diego tends to be lower than the state by about a percent.

Submitted by Zeitgeist on June 19, 2009 - 1:27pm.

Figures don't lie, but liars figure. - Samuel Clemens (alias Mark Twain)

Submitted by Rt.66 on June 22, 2009 - 10:29am.

Rt.66 wrote:
Report rosey (fake) unemployment numbers, stock market rallies.

Wait for some other form of rosey (fake) news (perhaps housing starts) and report it along with actual (less fake) downward revised employment numbers; stock market goes up.

Wash-rinse-repeat enough times and the sheeple start to feel like its safe to put the 201k portion they have left of their old 401k back into the market.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30750253/ns/...

UPDATE

Insiders Dump Shares at Fastest Pace in 2 Years.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.c...

Can you guess what happens next?

UPDATE

Insiders Dump Shares at Fastest Pace in 2 Years.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.c...

Can you guess what happens next?

Submitted by DWCAP on June 23, 2009 - 10:30am.

More evidence that BLS birth-death data for May was mostly just BS.

-"The Labor Department said the number of mass layoff actions - defined as job cuts involving at least 50 people from a single employer - increased to 2,933 in May from 2,712 in April, resulting in the loss of 312,880 jobs.

It was the largest loss of jobs connected to mass layoffs on records dating to 1995."

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/23/news/eco...

I just find it hard to believe that job cuts are slowing when large layoffs are increasing. I suppose you could argue that small buisness are pickup up the slack, creating jobs while bigger buisness are cutting, but I kinda doubt it. Not in the biggest downturn since the depression, and when credit, the life blood of most small buisness, is disapearing.