San Diego Housing Bubble News and Analysis

"If Obama comes in and taxes us all for 1/2 our incomes, starts giving us aptitude tests in elementary to assign us our future and permanent careers, takes away Jesus and starts calling God Allah and completely dismantles our military...guess what...we will just vote the fucker out in the next election."

A compulsory 50% drop in living standards...mandatory occupational assignments...the unilateral replacement of Christianity with Islam. If Obama actually did all of these things...what makes you think there would even be a "next election"?

Keep in mind that Biden has already guaranteed us that on or about July of 2009 we're going to get our a**es kicked in an international crisis, simply because mysterious and unknown players want to *test* our boy (which is quite baffling since Gallup's World Poll shows that Obama is favored around the globe by a 2-1 margin...so who are these enemies who want to test him) Are Biden's "assurances" supposed to give voters comfort? "Obama-Biden -- Crisis Guaranteed!"

These clowns have already put us on notice: better buckle up and hold on for dear life. We're leaving Kansas.

Whatever happened to *hope* and "change you can believe in*? Guess *hope* expires around June 30, 2009. And boy, are we ever going to get *change*!

In sum, I wouldn't be so quick to condemn John's concerns. I'm not sure any of us should be complacent about an Obama presidency. This could be a game-changer, folks. Never think that a very bad situation CAN'T get possibly any worse. Whenever you approach a decision from that perspective, the outcome is usually an unpleasant surprise.

i hate to break it to you, but Paulsen is busy nationalizing
50 PERCENT of the US GDP.

All the wall street banks, insurance companies, regional banks,
combined with the patriot act and the IRS, the GOP
is now running the financial sector for their benefit.

when the CDS market collapses, you will see a good shot
at the end of the us dollar.

Almost every example of a country walking away from democracy in the modern era falls into one of two categories:

a) a country on a nationalist swing moving (on purpose) away from consultative institutions
(eg: Russia, Germany)

b) a relatively weak country who could be unduly influenced by outside power brokers
(eg: Peru, Argentina, Iran)

This means that any assertion that a president has the ability to steer a country away from democracy is a dubious one. Essentially, no matter how crazy Obama acts, there will be elections. If he acts especially crazy, he will lose much of the backing of congress. I think the lesson of 94 and 06 is that backing bad policy is political suicide. Most legislators went to enough college to understand that.

A more realistic fear for those on the right is that he makes moves that swing our country to the left. That is a real concern. We have seen that Europeans have adopted left leaning ways and then keep reelecting the governments that put them there. I think it is pretty likely that the public will end up liking a European style standard of living and model of healthcare.

A nuke exploded in DC or NYC or both would end democracy as we know it.

Buffet claims its inevitable that it will happen one day. I can't think of a better window of opportunity then under Obama.

John

Shannon,

If you ever become one of the ones who actually pays significant income taxes then you might have a different prespective on what "spreading the wealth" really means.

You won't have to worry about testing kids under Obama in elementary schools to assign their future paths because Minorties would test worst then Whites and would be assigned to lower status careers.

As far as me being a conservative. If you knew what a conservative really was then you wouldn't call me that. Conservatives want government too. I want to get rid of it.

John

Partypup,

I love it when you post.

John

(1) week and counting until you nut jobs (you know who you are) stop these posts.

BTW, did anyone catch that 'slip' from Senator McCain regarding JFK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBAsHTSbkXs

The body language from Senator McCain is really interesting when played in slo-mo.

Its funny listening to people complains about how it’s so unfair to the people who have to pay more taxes. The rich become rich through the hard work of the poor. Greed is a disease. It has made you very sick. I can see you sweating and squirming around. It’s like a drug addict being weaned of his drugs. How I wish you lived in Pakistan right now. Then you would have something to complain about. Right now you just sound like a whiney kid. I really enjoy reading your posts because they make me laugh JF.

Wow, I guess that explain's why my futures in tin foil just went through the roof.

"This means that any assertion that a president has the ability to steer a country away from democracy is a dubious one. Essentially, no matter how crazy Obama acts, there will be elections. If he acts especially crazy, he will lose much of the backing of congress. I think the lesson of 94 and 06 is that backing bad policy is political suicide. Most legislators went to enough college to understand that."

Interesting thoughts, Urban. And they would give me great comfort, except for one pesky detail: we are now in completely UNCHARTED territory. If you can find precedence for the world's only superpower (bristling with 300 million people) falling in a slow-motion collapse over a period of months, I'd be glad to see it ;-) My concern is that if our economic foundation collapses, it may be naive to expect that our political foundation can and will remain untouched. And so history may no longer serve as a reliable guide for what we are about to encounter.

Also, no one on this board believes (or should believe) that the president has the power to *steer* us anywhere. Only the invisible hands behind a president have that power. The question is: who are the hands that pull Obama's strings, and what is their agenda? Make no mistake: any first term senator who can raise $800 million while millions of Americans lose their homes and struggle to put food on the table, garner the immediate and unwavering support of the media and defeat the 20-year old Clinton Machine has VERY powerful hands that are moving his.

And distressingly, I think we've already seen the lengths to which our Congress will go to in order to protect out freedoms: both parties blithely looked away as Bush pushed through the Patriot Act; they have repeatedly agreed to extensions of the Act; they have continued to fund a criminal war; and impeachment has been taken "off the table" for the only U.S. president in U.S. history who can be classified as a war criminal

So much for checks and balances.

The danger I see here is that people who have spent the past 232 years living -- on an uninterrupted basis -- in a democracy tend to take for granted what people living in Germany, Russia, Peru, Argentina and Iran do NOT. Democracy is not a given; it is a privilege that must be closely and meticulously guarded. Moving through our lives and making decisions about those who will lead us based on (a) the belief that the unique system we have always had will continue to exist without the need to defend it and (b) events in the past will always serve as a guide for the future, could be our fatal undoing.

I'm sure you've heard of Nassim Taleeb's book. I worry that this could be a Black Swan moment. Much as the world was not expecting and could not have *foreseen* a global systemic collapse until it happened, we in the U.S. do not expect our democracy to ever be taken away from us and will doubtless be dumbfounded when it happens.

And at the rate events are unfolding, and given the opacity of Obama's resume and agenda and Biden's exceptionally creepy remarks, I have a nagging suspicion that we are going to be dumbfounded.

"(1) week and counting until you nut jobs (you know who you are) stop these posts."

Or...the nut job posts may actually increase. Or you may find yourself over the next year or two joining the ranks of the nut jobs ;-)

Unless, of course, an Obama presidency brings you everything you expect.

And for the record, I wouldn't doubt that McCain -- and almost every sitting member of Congress -- has a pretty good idea what happened in Dallas on that day.

That means Obama knows, too.

I'm not 'rich' but I'll certainly be paying more taxes under an Obamanation and no poor people worked hard to get me where I am. I don't think that's very funny. I think it's pathetic.

Last I checked, you are free to donate more money to the government. If folks like you think that we should be paying more taxes, feel free to send some extra money--put up or STFU.

"Partypup,

I love it when you post.

John"

I don't agree with you 100% on everything, John, but I respect the fact that you hold fast to what you believe in, even when the sentiment is unpopular. That's never easy, and it's what's absolutely necessary in a democracy.

And I am with you on this one :-)

I predict that in 18 months or less we will be seeing entirely different threads on this board from those who ardently supported Obama. Something like "OT: Obama...WTF is he thinking?!?!"

*Sigh* And there will be no pleasure whatsoever in this "I told you so" moment.

Your funny. Your squirming around too. I don't care about money. Meadandale you will die someday. And you cant take it with you. And I will put up. Because I will vote for Obama. And I dont care if I pay more. Your crack is running out. Your sweating pretty bad. It to bad for you. Im sure youll be ok though. And regardless of what you think no one deserves a big huge house on a hill and a big fancy car while others live paycheck to paycheck. But your greed has blinded you. You think you do deserve more then others. You think your special. Your not.

By all means though. Let out your pent up anger. It’s like a dog that thinks he’s the boss. You have to let him continue trying to fight. Once he knows that it is in vain he gives up his dominant stance. You are fighting hard. I am sure you will continue for a while. But you are fighting in vain. Let it out. Soon you will have to accept things.

.

The illusion of freedom [in America] will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater. -Frank Zappa

Get ready for the brick wall...

How can you say this, on the one hand, and then advocate wealth redistribution on the other hand? The people you want to give my money to don't deserve anything either.

That's the freaking problem with you brainwashed idiots. I don't think anyone owes me anything. I've worked hard for everything that I have; I've put myself through school twice while working fulltime. Yet someone sitting on their ass collecting a welfare check and not taking advantage of the very same opportunities I've had deserves more money? My Money? Yet you seem to think that confiscating the fruits of MY labor and giving them to other people is fair?

Ok, Comrade. I'll stop working so hard. Then maybe someone will give ME something that I didn't earn nor work for.

This whole post is an advertisement for public education.

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-You%27re-and-...
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-English-Punct...

Keep squirming. Do you really think that everyone who is poor does not work hard. You assumed that I would be all for giving money out to people for nothing. I still do not think that you deserve a mansion on a hill. Or that anyone does for that matter. Look how angry you are. Your money hasn't done you any good. If anything it seems to be causing you stress. Freedom does not come from money. It comes from the mind. Maybe you should stop stressing out. But then again it will all make sense to you when you die. When you can no longer cling on to your money. When you will be forced to see not what you have but what you have done for others.

And yes I do think we should tax the rich more. And we should use that money to invest in schools and green energy. Its sad that in the wealthiest country in the world we have to pay for higher education. You might have been a little less stressed out if you didnt have to work fulltime while going to school. Seems fucked up to me. A country where we put our children in debt for knowledge. Knowledge should be free. That would make this country stronger. But now that you have busted your ass for it you feel everyone else should. Your wrong. You were cheated.

LOL, your name isn't Tom Costas by any chance? You sound just like a guy I used to work with. Is "the man" still keeping you down?

No. I am doing just fine.

Its hard for the man to keep you down when you know his game.

So you are Tom Costas?

Your point is well taken. Democracy was never invented. It exists (and always has) as a means to address the inequities inherent in capitalism. So your concern that the economy underpins politics has a point.
However, I don't buy that this is totally uncharted. We have had relatively cataclysmic economic events throughout our history. The fed was wished into being by banks wanting to decrease the frequency of those events. The current failures are all in the banking department. They will result in mass layoffs and that really matters.
However, we still have a highly diversified economy with lots of developed resources and industry. Even if our debt and economic issues were denominated in foreign currency, that would keep us from going the direction of Argentina's last major fuckup (which was distinct from their history with exogenous political influence).
You need a true collapse to get there. We don't have that going on right now.

No, I think you see too much agency there. Obama draws together a large coalition of disaffected republicans and independents in addition to democrats. Many people, rich and poor, have given money to him. Again you are looking at broad effective demand for the supply of change he offers and ascribing this demand to Dr. Evil. He just barely won against Clinton. He was behind in the polls several weeks ago. He seemed like a long shot a year ago. Last night I saw houses in my neighborhood with Shepard Fairey's Obama posters on them. It looks more like Mexico in the 70's with this weird Messianic adoration. AND NONE OF THIS SEEMS FAKE OR INORGANIC OR THE AGENDA OF EVIL MEN; PEOPLE ARE JUST PISSED. Thats what happens.

While I don't like the PA, it mostly just brings us in line with international security standards. Some parts will go away and some parts will get stronger.
Also, impeachment is not an effective strategic goal.

I do agree that being observant and vigilant is important. But our system is not unique and history is a good starting point for analysis. Democracy is pretty durable except when people vote against it (eg: Germany).

I don't agree it could be taken from us.
I only agree that we are potentially dumb enough to give it away.

The general assertion here that we are just victims here is not one that has validity. No one may enter the house of strong man without his permission and so no one may take away our power just by force. We may be dumb enough to be conned out of political power and in that sense you have a point.

no

Jf,

I do love how you naturally assume my tax bracket...you truly have no idea.

Anywho, I will not rise to your challenge, and yes I do understand the true sense of conservatism, at least in the Barry Goldwater sense... and I find it ironic that Goldwater's daughter is not supporting McCain.

It is only because conservatism has lost its true way, that I have turned away. Once conservatism changed from meaning small government to mean conservative morals...that's when I realized the party I used to support had changed.

How can you defend true conservatism with Bush's eight years and when Republicans held both the senate and congress?

You guys have no one to blame but yourself. You had it all and pissed it away. Even Barry Goldwater once predicted that his idea of conservatism would one day seem liberal. So please don't think I have no clue what your party used to stand for.

Legitimate conservatives and traditional Republicans recognize the GOP has run off its rails. A sizeable percentage of us support Obama. Obama is a pragmatic centrist and our best chance at getting past the divisive partisanship of the Clinton-Bush years.

Did you notice Jf's thrown in quip of minority testing. Being an American with Korean ancestry I know he's not talking about me...right? Watch Jf, your true colors are showing.

OH no the white man is losing his grip on power, pretty soon by law a pimped out Impala will be mandatory and we will have all wealthy people in factories working for the poor huddles masses.

Personally, I would rather see the entire income tax go, and give all Americans more purchasing power. Tax me on what I buy...but at least give me a chance to spend it.

However, if we are going to have income taxes...my philosophy pretty much comes to this. I have more faith in the middle class to spend their money to create jobs, than I do in the wealthiest to take their tax cuts and create more jobs.

I think an example of middle class purchasing power is post WWII. It was not the wealthiest who made America go boom, it was the middle class.

Sadly, the income tax is what divides us it seems, so lets just abolish it...